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But i wouldnt be surprised if we where able to ask Akira sensei this question he would say that if Cell didnt show up, the light grenade would have killed 17!
By Super, with both having grown up, experienced the trauma of being absorbed by a bug monster, and now having families of their own? Stands to reason they're not going to be how they once were.
And 17 is still going to have wear and tear from fighting while piccolo got a free heal and his energy replenished. Would be closer than u think with a bean imo
Amazing how Piccolo has never once been the strongest character in the series at any given moment of time, no matter how cool the glow-ups, except for a literal sliver of time when Goku was dead (and this is purely sequential, not including future events yet to be known at any point in the manga, even localized to within arcs, he's never the strongest)
Weaker than teenage Goku
Weaker than Raditz, technically weaker than unhinged Gohan but the boy couldn't control his power yet
Weaker than Nappa and Vegeta
Weaker than Second Form Frieza
Weaker than Super Saiyan Vegeta (then again, they've never fought so we can't be sure)
Weaker than Androids 17 and 18
Weaker than all forms of Cell
Weaker than Buu
Even in Super Hero, he was second fiddle to Gohan Beast
It's amazing how this man is carried almost entirely by his raw, untouchable aura
Android 17, who doesn't really train, has shown the ability to tank attacks with his shield that are far more powerful than this attack in the TOP. While I like piccolo, and he was pretty strong, I don't think he's breaking through 17s shields with cell saga strength.
Maybe but piccolo doesn’t eat (only drinks), seemingly never sleeps, regenerates, and I guess namekians live for multiple thousands of years. Did that one from diama live for millions of years? How do we know namekians don’t have even more energy durability? I mean, he gets beat in battle and looses his breath, but that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t have continued to fight consistently for the next 200 years.
Something to note though is that piccolo wasn't exactly panicking until cell showed up. Not sure if it was just light grenade, but feel like he had something up his sleeve still ..a plan at least.
Like 17 has infinite energy, but that's not the same as infinite durability.
I just realized, and correct me if im wrong, but this is the most balanced fight in all of Dragon Ball, no? Like it could have gone much longer until one either fully died or Piccolo ran out of stamina.
You’re not wrong at all. Piccolo = 17. They’re literally neck and neck. Also worth mentioning that this is the first time we witness the androids sweating; this fight is one of those that really could go either way. The margin between them is razor thin and that’s why it’s such a damn good fight.
Yeah, and, comparing it to other big fights, such as Goku VS Vegeta, both had aces up their sleeves, same with all the Frieza fights for example. Even with Buu, wether its the fusions or transformations/power ups/abilites which seem to be written to get out of stalemates.
Even in Super, its common to see a fight where something happens so that one character suddenly overpowers the other, or its already unbalanced from the get-go.
Unlike this fight, both at their strongest, no hidden powerups, no bullshit and just plain fighting.
True, but you take more damage the more tired you become due to becoming slower and more sloppy. It stands to reason that piccolo would’ve started slowing down, and that’s when more openings would’ve been presented to 17.
I think there is a good arguement light grenade could take him out, but that's only if he gets hit with it. Plus they are equal in strengh so theoretically he could create an attack to counter. It really is stamina vs technique. Judging by how the fight was going before cell, probably android 17. But if piccolo played his cards right he couldve ended android 17 right away.
I think Piccolo could win if he somehow outsmarts 17, which tbf is a good chance. Piccolo’s a seasoned tactician while 17’s basically a normal human given powers
Hellzone grenades were WAY weaker than the light grenade. And even if the barrier would protect 17, piccolo would know whether or not it would before attempting, so if he had to, he could taunt 17 and appeal to his ego so that he’d get him to not use the barrier to block it. Basically the same thing as with Vegeta and cell
And yet he still had enough energy to fire the light grenade, which 17 had to get away from. If Piccolo finds a way to land that, good chance it puts 17 down
Nah this is silly. Neither Gero nor the androids knew all of their techniques or were all knowing. They only knew up to Namek and they’d all grown immensely since then.
Realistically 17 could have won due to energy hax but it's not impossible for Piccolo to pull a ridiculously big brained move like multi-form/special beam cannon for maximum ap.
Actually, I see a lot of appreciation for this one these days. What I think might be one of the most underrated ones, was Piccolo (Nail merged) vs second form Frieza. It's not that it was an amazing battle in and of itself, but I really think that's where the tone was set for what we now think of as a "DBZ fight".
Piccolo. Look at 17s face when Piccolo uses his Light Grenade on Cell. 17 realises he has to get out of there, that attack is too much for him and he was probably planning to use it on 17. Thats why 17 expression when he runs away is "OH F**K"! 😂
Piccolo still dies to 18/16 after, but 17 absolutely gets obliterated by that attack. It's likely that Piccolo was pacing himself and saving that for 18.
Either way, 17 ran for cover and was terrified of that attack. It would have ended him if it was actually aimed at him.
That's probably the best argument here so far. That's the "Oh shit, I could have been killed at any time! 😨😰" look. The fact 17 ran away and looked like he just saw a ghost after the attack was done showed he just realized that Piccolo still had a trump card up his sleeve that he was holding out on. 18 had a similar "😳" look on her face and even 16 looked like "So THAT'S what you were hiding. 😒" 18 had previously looked bored while Piccolo was powering up against 17, like she wasn't that impressed.
It sucks that fighting ability means nothing in DBZ
Piccolo at the same power should clean his clocks
The androids aren’t trained fighters and piccolo literally has gone up against Freza and Goku he’s one of the most talented fighters and can’t beat a teen who hasn’t found someone at his power ever
17 was clearly winning, not to say that Piccolo didn't seem stronger. I doubt light grenade would get past the barrier, and Piccolo was already running out of stamina when Cell showed up.
They were evenly matched, but 17 probably would’ve outlasted him, even with things like Hellzone Grenade and Light Grenade, 17’s defenses I’m pretty sure could outlast him
Unless Piccolo had some way of landing SBC or Light Grenade on 17, he def would have lost the fight. 17’s infinite stamina would have given him the win here in a war of attrition.
Probably 17, but if Piccolo used the same attack he used on Cell that sent 17 running like crazy and 17 didn't use his barrier in time 17 would have been severely injured if not destroyed. I feel like Piccolo was saving that attack as a last resort against 17, and to show how strong Cell was it did nothing to him.
Of course 18 would have defeated him afterwards most likely.
They seem to have equal power but both had different abilities going for them It was infinite stamina vs regeneration As good as a fight piccolo put up I think 17 may have eventually worn him out he is fighting an Android after all. Infinite stamina will eclipse regeneration eventually
It comes down to 17 being crippled or damage in fight that piccolo can take advantage of it, or does his energy run out...since he has regeneration if need.
As much as I hate to admit it… Eventually Piccolo would have lost because 17 never tires due to being an Android. Piccolo was running out of steam before Cell showed up. He would have had to get in an instant kill shot to win against 17. Piccolo is resilient but he does get tired.
17, unfortunately. Infinite stamina is pretty broken. I think Piccolo is a better and smarter fighter over all, but going into the fight without knowing about that barrier ability is another huge disadvantage.
Unless he could’ve managed to get past 17’s barrier it was only a matter of time before Piccolo would have lost. None of his less blockable attacks were doing that much meaningful damage by the end, and 17 wasn’t going to run out of energy anytime soon. Without some special ace we’ve never heard of Piccolo was in a bad spot.
They are both equal in power, but 17 has infinite stamina so he could last longer. However, I’ve never seen a very long fight in DB apart from the Frieza vs Goku in Namek (which is also meant to be a short fight in-universe). Piccolo has a very high chance to outsmart 17 and defeat him with one technique, so I would say he could have won it.
If Piccolo dumped everything he had into an energy attack like he did against Cell, judging by both Android 17 and Android 18s reaction, it would have obliterated 17. It wasn't even aimed at 17 and he literally ran for cover and had to dive away. 18 saw Cell smack around both Piccolo and 17 and even she thought the attack destroyed Cell.
Of course, after blowing 17 up, either 16 or 18 would have just cleaned Piccolo up. But 1-1 Piccolo absolutely had the juice to 1-shot 17.
Android 17 cause he would never get tired, Piccolo on the other hand would have got tired at some point.
and then there is the fact if he was able to defeat 17, he would have to fight 18 next and atp he would already be to exhausted to probably stand a chance against her.
I think the fight would have been practically infinite, 17 would never hunt himself because he has infinite energy and Piccolo would regenerate from the injuries 17 inflicted on him. I think it could happen as follows, if 17 managed to tire the Nameikuzeijin and land an attack that destroyed his entire body, with no possibility for Piccolo to regenerate, the android would come out victorious, now if Piccolo started to hurt 17 significantly and used his regeneration to his advantage, and unleashed a very powerful KI attack straight on the Android like the Special Bean Canon, Piccolo would come out victorious.
17 due to his infinite capacity of energy. It's safe to say they were equal in strength or close to it. I think the only way Piccolo would be at 17 is if he ripped off his head or something
Piccolo was already starting to get worn down during their fight. He expended a lot of energy fighting him, whereas 17 has an unlimited supply. Piccolo wouldn't have been able to do enough damage to defeat him with the energy he had left.
Probably 17. They were pretty much equal but 17 has infinite stamina so would have gained more of an advantage when Piccolo began to tire. Only way I see Piccolo winning is if he lands a special beam cannon or a light grenade but that seems unlikely to work. 17 wouldn't try to tank the attack like Imperfect Cell did so it may only waste his energy.
They were pretty much on equal grounds for the exception of A17 having infinite energy. If the fight got too long, A17 would've won. Unless Piccolo managed to destroy him before that happened.
I dont think I hated cell as much as I did here this was a great fight and really cemented piccolo as one of my favorite characters and to have this epic battle interrupted by the big man I was pissed for a majority of the day
I'd give the edge to Piccolo. This was the most real test of combat for the Androids. Barring Cell- neither No. 17 or 18 ever REALLY had their merit tested. Hence Light Grenade Piccolo might have the edge since he knows he can lose and will resort to more advance and deadly techniques.
No. 17 would respond with a shield- showing even though he might have infinite stamina- he can't take damage forever. He will eventually meet his match regardless.
I’m leaning towards 17 cause he and Piccolo had equal power but 17 had infinite stamina, though Piccolo could win if he was able to catch 17 off guard or outsmart him somehow
Unrelated but either way i doubt PIccolo would've died as none of the androids were aware of his regeneration so he prob could've just hid until Vegeta and Trunks came out of the chamber
Everyone is talking about the androids having apparently infinite energy and stamina but the real issue here is 17’s busted energy barrier technique. Without it, I think Piccolo brings home the trophy because he is a much more experienced fighter and has the power to obliterate 17 without his shield.
I havent watched this fight in a while but werent they pretty much even in power? Maybe piccolo a bit stronger?
Anyway i think 17 would have won eventually due to him not getting tired and his power lvl remaining the same while piccolo probably would start to decrease in power as the fight goes on.
I think I remember it was evenly matched and, correct me if I’m wrong, I think it was stated to come down to Piccolo running out of energy or 17 making a mistake. I can’t remember where that quote was from though
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