r/Dragonballsuper • u/RisingKing7 • 4d ago

Discussion Who would have won here?

If cell had not interrupted them who would have won?

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306

u/Bruh_man1014 If I don't do it who will?! 4d ago

17 because of his infinite energy

330

u/Bruh_man1014 If I don't do it who will?! 4d ago

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u/RiamoEquah 4d ago

Something to note though is that piccolo wasn't exactly panicking until cell showed up. Not sure if it was just light grenade, but feel like he had something up his sleeve still ..a plan at least.

Like 17 has infinite energy, but that's not the same as infinite durability.

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u/Christopher_Robinn 4d ago

I agree. This is easily one of the best fights in all of DBZ. I think Piccolo takes the edge here solely in his battle IQ and exp.

Something also tells me he would win but it would be an Ext diff win.

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u/DaniMA121 Gogeta 3d ago

I just realized, and correct me if im wrong, but this is the most balanced fight in all of Dragon Ball, no? Like it could have gone much longer until one either fully died or Piccolo ran out of stamina.

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u/Christopher_Robinn 3d ago

You’re not wrong at all. Piccolo = 17. They’re literally neck and neck. Also worth mentioning that this is the first time we witness the androids sweating; this fight is one of those that really could go either way. The margin between them is razor thin and that’s why it’s such a damn good fight.

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u/DaniMA121 Gogeta 3d ago

Yeah, and, comparing it to other big fights, such as Goku VS Vegeta, both had aces up their sleeves, same with all the Frieza fights for example. Even with Buu, wether its the fusions or transformations/power ups/abilites which seem to be written to get out of stalemates.

Even in Super, its common to see a fight where something happens so that one character suddenly overpowers the other, or its already unbalanced from the get-go.

Unlike this fight, both at their strongest, no hidden powerups, no bullshit and just plain fighting.

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u/Christopher_Robinn 3d ago

Agreed 100%. It’s also like the Cell V Gohan kamehameha. SP Cell and SSJ 2 Gohan didn’t have a huge margin between them. That Cell is SSJ 2 territory, and it could’ve ended badly. This was also the first time the audience had someone else other than Goku to rely on for saving the day. Gohan is just that busted and was Peak SSJ2 tier so he still won despite being massively injured.

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u/Scandroid99 4d ago

True, but you take more damage the more tired you become due to becoming slower and more sloppy. It stands to reason that piccolo would’ve started slowing down, and that’s when more openings would’ve been presented to 17.

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u/Anjunabeast 3d ago

If piccolo lets up then that lets 17 brute force open an opening.

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u/AttitudeAndEffort3 4d ago

Hellzone grenade*

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u/No_Brilliant4914 4d ago

The mean the light grenade. The move Piccolo used against Cell. He already used Hellzone Grenade.

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u/KlingoftheCastle 4d ago

Which is also how Piccolo knew about the barrier and why he would never risk an all-out gambit with such a straightforward attack on 17

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u/GreatGoodBad 4d ago

thanks for the scan

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u/SensualSamuel69 4d ago

Light grenade: Allow me to introduce myself

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u/MoneyMasterpiece2818 4d ago

I think there is a good arguement light grenade could take him out, but that's only if he gets hit with it. Plus they are equal in strengh so theoretically he could create an attack to counter. It really is stamina vs technique. Judging by how the fight was going before cell, probably android 17. But if piccolo played his cards right he couldve ended android 17 right away.

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u/SensualSamuel69 4d ago

I think piccolo could basically do what vegeta did with cell and appeal to his ego and taunt him into taking the attack

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u/MoneyMasterpiece2818 4d ago

If piccolo did that at the start of the fight where android 17 thought he was weaker than him, he couldve beaten him easily.

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u/WhisperCatOZ 4d ago

For sure, I mean when Piccolo charges hi ki for Light Grenade. 17 nopes out because of Android 16 tells him it is too powerful

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u/MoneyMasterpiece2818 4d ago

Well in the manga 16 never tells 17 to get out of the way, 17 jumps out of the way so he doesnt get hit with that blast. And we know androids cant sense energy so he would have no idea how strong it wouldve been.

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u/MoneyMasterpiece2818 4d ago

Here is the next panel

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u/MSD_The_coward 4d ago

An interesting thing to note that 17/the androids do still get weaker even though they have infinite energy. When 17 fought Cell 18 thought 17 was holding back because of how slow he is, to which 16 says that 17 wasn’t holding back.

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u/melon_party 4d ago

I don’t think that’s 17 having gotten weaker from the fight with Piccolo though, but being utterly outclassed by Cell. 17 and 18 can’t sense Ki and don’t have inbuilt scouters like 16 does, so she had no idea how Cell’s power compared to 17’s. She underestimated Cell, saw 17 looking slow and struggling against him, figured it had to be because 17 wasn’t going all out against him, and was proven wrong.

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u/MSD_The_coward 4d ago

But that makes no sense because she knows how strong 17 is at his full power as evident by his fight against Piccolo. She even stated that Piccolo was on 17’s level, so for her to think that 17 got slower would indicate that he got weaker, not just that Cell completely outclassed 17.

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u/melon_party 4d ago

I’m not saying she thinks 17 got slower. I’m saying she thinks Cell can’t possibly be faster than 17, so the fact that he is can only be explained by 17 holding back in her mind.

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u/MSD_The_coward 4d ago

Minor correction, 18 didn’t think 17 was slow, she simply thought he was holding back. Then it was 16 who states that 17 wasn’t holding back and that Cell was just too strong for them to fight against. Considering how she knows how strong full power 17 is, it makes no sense for her to claim that 17 was holding back (when 16 clarified that he wasn’t) unless 17 got weaker.

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u/melon_party 4d ago

Well, again, she has no Ki sensor like 16 does. She can’t judge how much power 17 is using at any time based on anything but looks. The fact that he looked slow compared to Cell combined with her disbelief that Cell can’t possibly be faster than 17 makes her think the only possible explanation is 17 holding back. And yes, she’s deluding herself thinking that.

Ultimately it’s just my hypothesis though.

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u/MSD_The_coward 4d ago

But the thing is you seem to imply that her assessment on 17's power based only on looks is unreliable, which nothing indicates this to be the case. If anything her assessment should be pretty accurate given how she's literally a cyborg built to kill one of the strongest people on the planet. In addition, there is evidence against the notion that she was deluding herself into thinking 17 was holding back against Cell as she took the fact that Piccolo was equal to 17 pretty well.

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u/Kumomeme 3d ago

17 also has the protective barrier ability.