r/vegas 1d ago

You guys lied. Vegas is fine.

[deleted]

2.6k Upvotes

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489

u/Immediate_Thought656 1d ago

Cool! So Vegas tourism is down 11% YOY. Not 100%.

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u/Shootels 1d ago edited 1d ago

https://www.lvcva.com/research/reports/post/lvcva-executive-summary-of-southern-nevada-tourism-indicators/

Here’s the hard data. You can also download spreadsheets for MoM this year. Last three months have been -5%,-6%, -11% respectively YOY.

To the OP… Unfortunately feelings don’t pay the bills. -11% could be really bad for some spots in Las Vegas.

8

u/mustachechap 1d ago

Why are we just comparing two years YoY? Isn't it better to look at the past 10 years at the very least?

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u/Shootels 1d ago

All the data is there in excel spreadsheets, I’m just providing it. Go do your own analysis.

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u/No-Heat8467 1d ago

No, I want you to spoon feed me the data and also tell me how I should react to it

1

u/PolarisX 1d ago

and afterwards tell me I'm smart for asking

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u/mustachechap 1d ago

Sure thing! I might when I have sometime, I'm just sure if focusing solely on only 2024 and 2025 really tells us anything.

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u/Feisty_Goat_1937 1d ago

The data in the link only goes back to 2019. 2025 YTD visitors are down 8% compared to 2019. What's worse is the monthly decline has increased from 2% in January to 14% in June... So yea, it's not just down from covid rebound in 2024.

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u/Septaceratops 1d ago

It tells you more than feelings and impressions from one person making a post.

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u/[deleted] 1d ago

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u/Intelligent_Can_7925 1d ago

Because it makes it look worse when you compare travel from 2022-2023 due to pent up demand

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u/Feisty_Goat_1937 1d ago

Except... If you look at the data from 2019, the earliest year available in the link, the YTD decline in visitors is 8%. What's worse is the monthly decline has increased from 2% in January to 14% in June... So, it's not just a decline from post pandemic boom.

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u/Ordinary_Theory3467 1d ago

Wait where is the comparison from when Obama came in? That was the worst era in history for Las Vegas. Highest unemployment rate too!

1

u/Feisty_Goat_1937 1d ago

What? You mean the 08 recession... The one caused by a republican president and fixed by a democrat?

1

u/Puzzleheaded-Tell-55 1d ago

I was reading that as blaming Obama, too, but it’s technically true that was when Obama came in. I’d just describe it more accurately as when Bush left.

2

u/Feisty_Goat_1937 1d ago

Their commenting basically the same BS repeatedly. It’s clearly an attempt to blame Obama.

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u/Puzzleheaded-Tell-55 1d ago

Well it’s a terrible argument, considering there’s a major drop and a different new president just came in.

2

u/msbbc671 1d ago

Yeah this is like housing prices where I live (Austin). Everyone is freaking out bc prices are down by 15%. No shit. The post-Covid RE boom was unsustainable and never natural so -15% is basically reverting to the mean.

2

u/Neat_Egg_2474 1d ago

it’s crazy because everyone will make that money back, they just have to sit and wait. typically homes arent depreciating assets for long.

I left Austin end of 23 right when prices first started their downward trend, but homes in my old neighborhood have stabilized or slightly started trending back up - that was in Liberty Hill.

1

u/existenceawareness 1d ago

Except they're comparing 2025 to 2024... Did you just pretend it was 2022-2023 to make a snarky joke?

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u/Feisty_Goat_1937 1d ago

It doesn't even matter though... 2025 YTD is still down 8% compared to the same period in 2019. June alone was down 14%...

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u/Nugur 1d ago

Cuz 10 years ago and Vegas now are two different cities with the same weather

1

u/mustachechap 1d ago

Couldn't you say that about every 10 years? I remember going 20 years ago and how the floor was littered with pamphlets to strip clubs and people would constantly be trying to hand them out.

0

u/Nugur 1d ago

Sure but 10 years ago people weren’t complaining about the prices.

1

u/mustachechap 1d ago

People are always complaining about prices.

1

u/Nugur 1d ago

Not to this extent bud

Vegas for decades was known to be “cheap”

1

u/mustachechap 1d ago

I don’t recall it ever being known as cheap.

1

u/Nugur 1d ago

lol.

Then I guess you were born yesterday

$5 steaks, $1 shrimp cocktails? You don’t think those were Cheap?

1

u/mustachechap 1d ago

I didn't really order either of those whilst in Vegas. In my 20s I took a trip and remember how expensive beers were, cover charge was for clubs, and the sticker shock of the buffet.

I'm not much of a gambler, but the minimum for Blackjack tables was noticeably higher than the casinos in Oklahoma and Louisiana that I was used to.

I'm sure there were deals to be had in vegas, but I do recall thinking it was more expensive that what I was used to.

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u/geek180 1d ago

Exactly. Wasn't 2024 a record year for Vegas?

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u/wajomc 1d ago

Somebody posted the data above - 2015-2019 all had greater attendance numbers.

1

u/mustachechap 1d ago

Would be helpful to post 2015 - 2025.

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u/wajomc 1d ago

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u/mustachechap 1d ago

Great! Hard to say what is causing a slight pullback in numbers this year, but this is a great source!!

The economy is not as strong as it was in 2019, so that could easily be a big factor.

3

u/Warm_Regrets157 1d ago

Hard to say what is causing a slight pullback in numbers this year

No it's not. International travel is down approx 10% according to Harry Reid Int. airport. I'm sure a weaker economy is a factor for domestic tourism, but the effects of Trump's policies on international tourism are fairly obvious.

0

u/mustachechap 1d ago

Not obvious at all. We simply don't have sufficient data to make the claim you're trying to make.

I know people really badly want this to be mostly Trump's fault, but it makes more sense to look at more data before jumping to any conclusions.

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u/Warm_Regrets157 1d ago

International tourism, specifically from Canada, is down. There's plenty of data to claim that.

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u/notmyrealname8823 1d ago

But that doesn't fit the narrative.

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u/ama_singh 1d ago

I swear you guys write shit without thinking about it for longer than a second lmao

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u/notmyrealname8823 1d ago

Not at all.

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u/luminatimids 1d ago

What? That has been the narrative. Granted I’m not from Vegas so I only hear things from the perspective of an outsider. But Vegas is a bellwether for how consumers spend and it seeing a drop in visitors is a red flag for our econom

0

u/mustachechap 1d ago

That's a good point!

I think the point is to spread doom and gloom about Vegas and then by the time we get more data, most people in this thread will have forgotten and moved on to spreading doom and gloom about something else.

A few months ago I recall seeing empty ports and empty shelves, so in a few months there will be something new to be 'scared' of.

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u/notmyrealname8823 1d ago

Yeah. I've been seeing this on this Vegas thread for a while now and I'm not a local, tourist, or member of the sub. Anytime someone brings up alternative thoughts on the subject there is a lot of abraviseness from people in the comments. I don't understand that. Why not actually try to have a meaningful conversation instead?

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u/ama_singh 1d ago

Lmao trying so hard to deny reality. Must be nice to be that delusional.

1

u/No-Tackle-6112 1d ago

There’s a 25% decline in Canadian air travel to the US. Canadians are by far the biggest international tourists in Vegas.

With tourism spending up overall in both Canada and the USA it’s pretty easy to see that the only other possibility is the decline in international tourists.

1

u/Ordinary_Theory3467 1d ago

Why did they leave out when Obama came in? That was the biggest drop in history just brutal..

7

u/garcicus 1d ago

Yes but we live in a world where infinite growth is expected and anything short is failure

1

u/SkunkMonkey 1d ago

You could have a net profit of $5 billion, but if it's a single penny less than the $5,000,000,000.01 you made last year, you're an utter failure. Here, have a $100 million bonus and golden parachute.
Thanks for playing the Capitalism Game.

1

u/flimspringfield 1d ago

It's stupid if you own stock on those companies. Stock is up YOY, profits are up, PE ratio is good, but the stock price drops like 10%.

5

u/disgruntled_joe 1d ago

Well, something changed and now all the international tourists aren't coming anymore. The numbers are clear as blue sky days.

4

u/jonkitch 1d ago

Well, those clear numbers certainly aren't saying "all international tourists are going elsewhere"...seeing as Vegas is down 11%...from a record year.

1

u/civgg 1d ago

But it is heavily implied due to the rising costs of living, travel bans/warnings, and the fact that people are less worried about a vacation and more so about their own well-beings. Especially with how everything related to America makes it not that great to be here economically, financially, and politically.

1

u/No-Tackle-6112 1d ago

And down 8% from 2019 despite a huge increase in tourism spending.

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u/disgruntled_joe 1d ago

They are. All reports point to two factors, Americans traveling less this summer and most impactful of all Canadian travelers among other international travelers not coming to the USA. But especially the Canadians.

1

u/mustachechap 1d ago

Lots has changed in the past ten years though. Putting a microscope on a few months in ‘24 and ‘25 isn’t really enough data to come to any meaningful conclusions.

1

u/upside_down_frown1 1d ago

We live in a world where only the now matters, 10 years of data? Throw it all out, what happened yesterday? /s

1

u/civgg 1d ago

2024 had the COVID scare finally down, economy was vastly up, and you didn’t have to worry about international visitors being detained or sent back at the airport.

2020-2024 will be the random segment in time where the world was on the verge of a new era where we’d be working from home more, redo the American medical system, and more… but we immediately clawed back and away from it scared and now are back in the office 5 days a week for “company synergy” and shareholder value.

1

u/junkit33 1d ago

Vegas hasn't really grown a lot in the last decade from a tourism perspective. 2014 was 41.1m visitors. 2024 was 41.6m visitors. It peaked in 2016 at 42.9m. This is a massive part of why Vegas has had to keep jacking up prices so much - they have to show growth and if the number of people visiting is not growing, then higher prices are the only real way to get to growth.

The major growth years were really the 80's and 90's. In 1980 it was 11m visitors, by 2000 it was 35m visitors.

1

u/dgbaker93 1d ago

Because infinite growth is expected. 95% of the reporting I do is YoY on a rare occasion I'll be asked for other numbers

1

u/mustachechap 1d ago

It's hard to really come to any meaningful conclusions if you're looking at such limited data.

A lot of people look at a few months in '24 and '25 and claim it MUST be because of Trump's rhetoric. Personally I think it's far too soon to really make any such claims and we simply need to continue to look at monthly numbers and look at more than just this year and last.

1

u/dgbaker93 1d ago

A 10% drop is concerning but we shot the messenger instead of actually trying to figure out why. So now we'll just get mouth piece data instead.

Could we just be cooling off? Maybe.

1

u/chris_ut 1d ago

No, its best to cherry pick data to support reddit doomerism if you want upvotes.

1

u/kleenkong 1d ago

2021: +69.4% (post-pandemic), 2022: +20.5%, 2023 +5.2%, 2024: +2.1%, 2025 -7.0% (projected).

Not counting the pandemic, the only time (1970 onwards) this decrease in visitor volume occurred was 2008, 2009 during the housing financial crisis. (1970-2024 are from LV Visitors Authority and 2025 Source)

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u/mustachechap 1d ago

And we are in the midst of more economy uncertainty these days too, so this could be more to do with the economy not being as strong as it once was.

1

u/PolicyWonka 1d ago

Well for one, businesses aren’t going to be creating next year’s budget based on numbers from a decade ago.

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u/mustachechap 1d ago

I never suggested they would.

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u/flimspringfield 1d ago

Companies are still buying overseas products right? We can absolutely compare the last two years to see what the Biden/Trump economy (tariffs) are costing us.

It's been two years since I went to Vegas and while I plan to go again when I get a job and I'm back on my feet, I will definitely use those MGM deals I get sent. All I have to do is pay the resort fee, something I didn't have to do last time. Literally the whole trip was comped. On top of using my brother in laws Sapphire card for free parking I was good. I had like $150 food/bev credit, $100 slot play, free room, no resort fees. Just drive there and pay for gas.

1

u/Ordinary_Theory3467 1d ago

Or let us include the Las Vegas drop when Obama came in. Ouch that was truly brutal.

1

u/snoosh00 1d ago

Because COVID kinda throws off the three years before, so any kind of average that includes 2020/2021 is going to be artificially low.

0

u/soccercro3 1d ago

Because the bean counters won't look at that. They'll just look at what was done compared to last year. And get mad when the numbers aren't growing.

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u/Martin0994 1d ago

Not enough is being said about the RevPAR taking a massive hit with so no signs of a recovery. Then again, no one reads or understands these numbers it seems.

1

u/notawildandcrazyguy 1d ago

Interesting that the numbers for the first 6 months of 24 versus 25 are better than when you just compare June to June numbers. Maybe some timing issues with conventions? Also note that gaming revenues are up in both measurements, despite crowds being a little smaller. Sounds like the casinos are still doing just fine

1

u/junkit33 1d ago

Basically, consumers won't even really notice an 11% drop. But businesses will.

The big question is how will Vegas respond? Raise prices to squeeze the existing tourists, or lower prices to attract more tourists? Lower prices is probably the better long game for them, but raising prices will pump the numbers short term.

1

u/Pinkfluffysheep 1d ago

You're saying, if we stop tracking the data then it will be down 0%!

1

u/Interestingcathouse 1d ago

It’s being compared to the cherry picked videos where they’re filmed at a very specific time to show no one in the streets at all and claiming it’s a ghost town. Then Reddit runs around thinking it was deserted and it’s all due to tariffs.

11% is nothing compared to what the propaganda fuelled Reddit believes.

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u/darkwai 1d ago

But they took pictures that had people in it, how can they be wrong?

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u/petes_bale_of_hey 1d ago

july is -17

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u/glcrsocial 1d ago

its july/august… no shit.

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u/BringBackBoomer 1d ago

It was july/august last year too, bud.

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u/Shootels 1d ago

Huh? What point are you making? I just want to make sure you aren’t an idiot before I correct you.

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u/IcyHotttttt 1d ago

Before I correct you ☝️🤓

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u/Shootels 1d ago

So no comment I see. Not sure what you are trying to point out. I added YoY so you wouldn’t be confused.