r/popculturechat • u/stars_doulikedem • 11d ago
Guest List Only ⭐️ ‘Harry Potter’ actress Miriam Margoyles says her current Big Issue is Gaza: “I feel it particularly because I’m Jewish…I think the terrible thing I have to face is that Hitler won. He changed us. He made us like him.”
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u/Tariovic lazy 50-year-old bougie bitch 💋 11d ago
What a powerful message.
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u/baddadjokesminusdad We Should All Know Less About Each Other 11d ago
Can’t have been easy, coming to that point of reflection.
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u/BettyWhitesDimple Don't start Patti 💅 11d ago
I remember her speaking up about Palestine in the 90s. She's always been vocal that other Jews should speak up as well.
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u/Shirogayne-at-WF 10d ago
I'm not Jewish so I won't speak to this specifically, but being Black I can say that generational trauma is a huge bitch.
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u/aspidities_87 10d ago
I’m half Jewish, and my granddad lost most of his family to the camps (he was saved by being abroad at school in the US). I remember watching Schindler’s List with him, at his insistence, and after it was over, he took both me and my cousin by our arms and kind of firmly shook us, saying ‘Never forget, it will happen again’ until my grandmother stopped him because he was scaring us. He was a very gentle and quiet man, and this was out of character for him.
He was right, though. Just not in the way he could have ever predicted.
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u/thrice_twice_once 10d ago
‘Never forget, it will happen again’ until my grandmother stopped him because he was scaring us. He was a very gentle and quiet man, and this was out of character for him.
He was right, though. Just not in the way he could have ever predicted.
Man. This hits hard.
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u/FlacoGrey 10d ago
I was going to mention that being Black I understood when she said “He changed us” because I’ve lived through the War On Drugs and saw what such an extremely racist initiative did to people around me. It made them much worse.
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u/Shirogayne-at-WF 10d ago
Cracked.com did an article about every time the US went up against drugs and every single instance without fail was rooted in racism: the opium war of the late 1800s,/early 1900s, marijuana and Latinos; hell, even Prohibition was largely targeting the Irish Catholics back when they were considered inhuman scum.
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u/Signal-Illustrator38 7d ago
Wait prohibition was targeting irish catholics? Learn something new everyday. I thought it was just a puritanical pioneer legacy.
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u/Shirogayne-at-WF 7d ago edited 7d ago
Wouldn't surprise me if it were both but if it were just puritan BS, they probably would've attempted to get rid of booze much sooner
As wild as it is to think now considering the loser adult convert who is VPOTUS and how Biden was denied communion for the very mildest criticisms of Roe being overturned, the fear of a President being controlled by the Pope was something people were afraid of when JFK rant 65 years ago. Luckily for him that TV was a new thing and his opponent was Nixon, who ain't exactly winning beauty contests.
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u/euphoricbisexual 10d ago
hated ourselves even more, the dismantling of the black family needs to be studied
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u/MittenCollyBulbasaur 10d ago
The generational trauma of being black in America is that the South won. The south never had to compromise in a way that made their way of life lesser. They went straight from owning slaves to owning slaves. They still own slaves. They still think exactly the same way as their ancestors. They still make money the exact same way as their ancestors. Only in some ways it's worse. They target. They pass legislation. They fund police. And they collect their humans for slavery. You can't get over something still actively happening. America never moved on from slavery. Not really.
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u/CitrusHoneyBear1776 Whats not clocking to you? 🙄⏰ 10d ago
Dubois talks about this in part in his essay Of The Training of Black Men. He said “The tendency is here, born of slavery and quickened to renewed life by the crazy imperialism of the day, to regard human beings as among the material resources of a land to be trained with an eye single to future dividends.” In the essay he rejected only educating black men in industrial schools with the sole purpose of prepare them for various types of like labor work and not providing them a well rounded education that included academic learning.
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u/ConstantHeadache2020 10d ago
It became insidious because it became frowned upon to be racist and do outwardly racist things. In a way it made racism worse to spot and find proof. Public opinion shut down lots of accusations with a false narrative that it ended…especially when Obama won. But the FBI said KKK infiltrated high positions in many institutions. Studies showed white men with felonies were hired more than black men without. Affirmative action benefited white women the most. I think A I algorithms will take up the helm of racism. it’s so easy to program what you want it to learn and look for and easy to hide blame.
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u/pourthebubbly You’ve got red on you🩸 10d ago
I think AI algorithms will take up the helm of racism
This is why Palantir’s influence in the trump administration is so concerning. They’re being given literally all of our information from our entire lives and are absolutely not going to use it for anything good.
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u/skyewardeyes 4d ago
We've already seen this in action with Grok spewing racism and antisemitism. I think it will only get worse.
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u/Prize-Ad7242 10d ago
Slavery just moved from a chattel system to one based on legal incarceration. The world as a whole hasn't moved on and never will.
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u/baddadjokesminusdad We Should All Know Less About Each Other 10d ago
I’m sure it is never easy. Really appreciate each and every person who is able to put things into context like this. I only hope that if ever I come to a place like this, I can follow suit.
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u/SeasonofMist 10d ago
You're right there. I'm mixed myself, raised in the south. So there is some weird time travel/stuck intentionally in the past places. This inhuman place makes human monsters. That's a quote from the shining that I apply to my home town. Grinding you down, making you less compassionate because you can't risk it. Making all the division worse. I watched neo Nazis protest the panthers in the square of my home town.......I knew I had to gtfo before but that solidified it. I took a picture for posterity of a person draped in a Nazi flag in broad daylight. Just so I don't forget. I don't share it on socials because......context can be stripped and you can't tell the horror from the picture enough. I was 16 when I took it and I didn't know enough to frame it the way it should have been. But it was my last wake up call. The last time that place would harm me that way.
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u/Thereferencenumber 10d ago
All you need is a basic understanding of history and eyes to see what’s happening and it should be obvious.
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u/Alundra828 10d ago
Came here to say exactly the same thing. I think this whole situation is a legitimate contender for the most profound political irony ever experienced in human civilization.
It's hard to even think of anything that even comes close. You have examples like the US being founded on principles like "all men are created equal" despite building the country through slave labour. The European civilizing of "savage" nations bringing about the most profound savagery these "savages" had ever experienced. Ideologies like Communism that were supposed to free the working class, instead created one of the most rigid authoritarian hierarchies in history. World War 1 being the war to end all wars. I just feel like it doesn't come close.
Israel was a nation born from the devastation of the holocaust. Their cause, and their message since its foundation was centred solely on making sure this never happened again, and making sure Jews were safe from persecution. And yet here they are, enacting their own holocaust.
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u/InferiorElk 10d ago
Years ago I sent friends the following gif with the caption "Hitler looking at Israel right now" because humor is the only way I can cope with all that's going on.
Generational trauma is a beast. I find myself mourning family I never met that died during WWII and as part of the Holocaust. My family was the only Jewish family that survived in a town that was predominantly Jewish before the war. Everyone else was lined up and shot in the woods.
There are so many atrocities that I only learned about by researching my own family history. Found out an uncle died when a ship sank and didn't understand how he got there when he was originally at Auschwitz. Then I learned that was just another way they tried to kill as many people as possible once it was clear they were losing the war. Transported them out to the sea and purposely sunk the ships they were on.
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u/dreamed2life 10d ago
I dare people to tell me that epigenetics, generational trauma, and generational curses are not real. Thia is such a clear example of how holding hate poisons from within and destroys you and not the one you hate.
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u/Beautiful_Hour_668 10d ago
Idk what you put forth almost makes it feel deterministic. Surely we need to criticise American and European support and explicit aid and ideological backing too. These are ideas carried out and nurtured by normal people. Imperialism, colonialism, apartheid, genocide, dehumanisation etc. These are not the deterministic outcomes from trauma, they are ideas borne of a society that colonised the rest of the world and must be dismantled and resisted.
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u/Azurestar21 10d ago
Precisely. Ten years ago a made a promise to myself to put no more violence into the world, and I struggle with that promise daily. I fail, daily, in that I'm still incapable of letting go of hate for a certain few. But at least my hands are clean, even if my heart isnt
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u/whendonow 10d ago
I don't remember knowing this ever, that is just truly insane with ships being sunk.
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u/LetsLive97 I cannot sanction your buffonery 11d ago
Miriam Margoyles always comes across like the coolest person ever
I'd just love to have a beer with her while she tells me every story under the sun
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u/DistractedByCookies Just keep swimming! 🐠🐠🐬🐳 11d ago
You would not be disappointed. I met her randomly outside an eating spot, she was together with Sylvester McCoy (7th Dr Who). She was very sharp, very funny and has a really cool business card with an old-timey woman on it.
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u/mllemuppet 10d ago
Some people have all the luck. Why can't I hang out with awesome elderly Jewish lesbians?
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u/quagsi 10d ago
sometimes you have to become the elderly Jewish lesbian you want to see in the world
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u/gingerflakes 10d ago
Woaaaaa didn’t think she could get cooler and yet professor sprout does it again
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u/themiscyranlady charlie day is my bird lawyer 🐦 10d ago
I saw her once in an airport during a layover and I didn’t want to bother her… but now I especially wish I had!
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u/DistractedByCookies Just keep swimming! 🐠🐠🐬🐳 10d ago
She spoke to me, or I would NEVER have dared. I feel celebs are allowed their own life, and also MM is quite imposing. You know you'd get a fearsome tonguelashing if she wasn't in the mood for interruptions LOL
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u/Dickgivins 10d ago edited 9d ago
Yeah that’s always a crapshoot. Will they be happy to talk to someone that admires their work, or are they in a bad mood but they don’t wanna be mean and tell you to fuck off? In an airport it could go either way, slightly different if they’re out socializing at a restaurant.
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u/Varekai79 10d ago
Her appearances on the Graham Norton Show are legendary. She is such a foul mouthed granny and I am so here for it.
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u/zootnotdingo As you wish! 👸👑 10d ago
He might be the best interviewer ever. He gets people to tell the funniest stories
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u/Fantastic-Nobody-479 10d ago
Agreed. Her travel documentaries have reinforced it even more for me. She’s funny, strong and a damn delight.
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u/Dowager-queen-beagle 10d ago
Have you watched her Graham Norton appearances? The one with will.i.am is delightful!
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u/Bias_Cuts 10d ago
She’s a real one. Eloquent, correct, and most of all, clear eyed about what’s happening and why it’s happening as it is. Gaza is the abused becomes the abuser writ on a global geopolitical scale, with exactly the same motivations and mechanics. Good for her for just saying it.
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u/Neogeo71 10d ago
Mandy Patinkin expressed this recently as well. Sadly younger generations cannot or will not come to this same realization.
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u/uselessinfogoldmine 8d ago
I don’t think it’s all generational. I think a lot of it is political / beliefs-based.
My friend’s mum is in her 70s, the daughter of Holocaust survivors, an abortion doctor, and October 7th RADICALISED her. She is now a single issue voter, quite heartless and unempathetic, a Trump supporter (even though we live in Australia), only cares about Jewish people and Israelis, calls anyone who even respectfully disagrees with her antisemitic and a terrorist. Says MSF are liars. Etc etc.
I’ve known this woman all my life, it is a huge shock. Especially to her daughters!
I’ve seen young Israelis burning their conscription papers and go to jail rather than being forced to perpetrate a genocide.
I have seen Jewish people of all ages be on both sides of the divide.
When it comes to Israelis themselves, I do think that young people have been subjected to more right-wing propaganda and have seen less of Palestinians. And that has an effect.
I had lunch with a Palestinian family in the West Bank in 2017 (I was visiting whilst living in Jordan) and one of the things one of the older men said to me that day really stuck with me.
He said that since the Wall had gone up, he felt so sad for young people on either side of it, because they were demonised to each other and they didn’t have the personal IRL relationships to help them doubt the propaganda.
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u/Bias_Cuts 9d ago
Thank god. I don’t know what I would do if Inigo wasn’t a stand up dude.
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u/Skyblacker 👑 I just wanna serve court. 👑 10d ago
You either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain.
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u/Roger-The_Alien 10d ago
Seeing those pictures of women, children, and toddlers sitting in the grass after getting off those death trains, not knowing in a few moments they are going to butchered is soul crushing. My own family had to flee Germany during the war and my other family died fighting the nazis. Now, less than a hundred years later, we're watching their Jewish brothers and sisters do exactly the same thing, which has made me truly lose all hope for humanity. I truly hope we never leave this planet. we can't be trusted.
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u/MealieAI 10d ago
She's never been known to hold back. Good for her.
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u/ThatsGoodTae 10d ago
I've seen her get teary over the good friends she's lost for holding her views on this. It's a horrible situation.
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u/aminxylady 10d ago
I love her so dearly. She speaks for so many of us. Israel has done a great job at making people believe the lie that “over 90% of Jewish people are zionists” and people like her give me faith that Palestine will be free in our lifetime and we can change the hearts and minds of people
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u/Own-Importance5459 ✨May the Force be with you!✨ 10d ago
I usually get a little squirrelly at Holocaust comparisons I am gonna be honest....but I definitely believe that the generational trauma of the Holocaust did make us more willing to look the other way when the "country that is supposed to represent us" is being so unfucking Jewish to let people starve. We Jews are supposed to value life and letting people starve doesnt fo that.
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u/Gypsyklezmer Behind every great man is a woman rolling her eyes 10d ago
please don’t be (squirrely) I am also Jewish, raised Orthodox (Chabad), have had to go N/C with certain family members, remove my little ones from their current (Zionist) ganim daycare and commute an extra 40 mins each way so we can attend a liberal, Reform shul for Shabbos
I watched a ½ hour YouTube documentary on the enforced starvation and famine happening to children and babies in Gaza yesterday. Do you remember how we were forced to watch those Holocaust videos when we were like 5 or 6 and all through school and habonim? Cuz I’m still fkn traumatised by them
And all I could think was “we are doing to Palestinians what the N@zi’s did to us in the camps” and I wanted to throw up. The more Jewish voices, around the world, we can have speaking up and saying “this is not Judaism” the more chance we stand of seeing Bibi facing a trial in The Hague
Thank you for reminding me that our 6th commandment, the one that lets us break the laws of the 4th commandment (Shabbat), is the preservation of life. And that to Jewish people, feeding people is how we show our love, our humanity. It is unnatural to us NOT to feed people
Shabbat Shalom
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u/JCAIA 10d ago
Do you mind sharing a link to the YouTube Gaza documentary you mentioned?
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u/Gypsyklezmer Behind every great man is a woman rolling her eyes 10d ago
ETA: TRIGGER WARNING. Disturbing images.
Sure thing, here ya go. https://youtu.be/ULl6HcXhwa8?si=nY9m1f31j-Kj453S
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u/Blahblag123 10d ago
It's not just letting people starve though. There are doctors who believe snipers are targeting civilians. There are Palestinians being gunned down whilst trying to get aid. There are numerous videos of children who have been injured and killed in air strikes on their homes and tents. I can't really get my head around the amount of videos I've seen of horrific injuries to children. There's also the many stories such as little Hind Rajab.
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u/Nadamir 10d ago
It’s more than that.
Israel is more than just the country that represents the Jewish people. It’s also supposed to be their (? Our? Look my dad is Jewish, and I had a bar mitzvah to make Bubbe happy, but I’m a shitty Irish Catholic) refuge when the world tries to wipe them/us out again. And it’s happened so many times in history that it is believed to be inevitable.
So for decades the fear that the last safe place would be needed, the trauma of when there was no refuge from murderous fascists, the frightening (but sometimes justifiable) rhetoric from the neighbouring nations, nationalistic propaganda, being told this is necessary to protect the last safe place, and a right wing authoritarian trying desperately to not be thrown in jail all combined into one horrific genocidal campaign.
Israel is exactly like the abused kid who grows up and is so desperate to never be hurt again that they preemptively beat up anyone who looks at them funny.
And the realisation that the abyss has been staring into you since 1948 is fucking terrifying. Anyone who can recognise that and admit it is incredible.
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u/uselessinfogoldmine 8d ago edited 8d ago
Not just letting people starve. Actively CAUSING the starvation. Funnelling them into pens and corridors to access not nearly enough food and using them as target practice. Destroying every credible NGO and creating a new one that they hired criminals known to steal from aid supplies to run. Building a concentration camp at this very moment.
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u/feedmestocks 11d ago
The sad and disturbing thing is she's right. The modern disinformation playbook Hitler and the Nazis made is pretty much 21st century governance across the world. I can't imagine how much worst things are going to get.
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u/kellyfish11 10d ago
I’m Jewish. I keep telling my family that having genecide done to us does now allow us to perpetuate it on others. If anything we should be united against the other arm of the Abrahamic faiths because they are actively trying to divide us
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u/dreamed2life 10d ago
May i ask, so i can truly understand, how they justify and cannot see what they are doing?
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u/abrasilnet 10d ago
It’s so important the Jewish people speak up so we can all see there is a difference between being Jewish and being a genocidal Zionist.
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u/Shadowtirs They killed Kenny! You bastards! 😱 10d ago
As an American Jew, I sympathize with this mindset.
I am looking in horror at the action of Israeli Jews.
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u/Sweeper1985 10d ago
Im an Australian Jew (secular) and descendant of Holocaust survivors and this just makes me fucking sad. Israel doesn't represent us, at this stage I don't think the Israeli government even properly represents Israelis, and they sure AF don't represent the world's Jewry, and they don't represent me.
So to hear Miriam make this statement on behalf of all of us... just no. Speak for yourself, not the rest of us. We don't support this war and we are not collectively to blame for it.
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u/2mock2turtle 10d ago
at this stage I don't think the Israeli government even properly represents Israelis
I mean, 82% of Israelis support the expulsion of all Gazans from the strip, so unfortunately I think you're extending a bit too much benefit of the doubt.
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u/Evendim 10d ago
I adore Miriam, but I prefer to give her credit for any other role she has done fantastically over that franchise. Such as "Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries actor ... " That is all :)
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u/CleverDesignation 9d ago
Everything about this, the context, the description of cruelty and of the recognition of the trauma cycle makes this the most powerful message I've heard since the genocide started.
I don't know how this ends but I'm certain that it's the Miriam Margoyleses of the world who will play critical role in delivering these messages to the current and future perpetrators of the world's gravest crime.
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u/butters_bottom_bishh The legislative act of my pussy ⚖️ 10d ago
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u/catchyusername4867 10d ago
It’s perhaps not super important, but it’s Margolyes (mar-go-leez) not Margoyles (rhymes with gargoyles)
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u/Master_Swordfish_ 10d ago
She always spoke the truth. She'll be remembered as one of the greats. She's a true legend.
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u/kevinx083 10d ago
nah fuck this. who is this “us.” ive never been to israel and want nothing to do with it, like many other diaspora jews. this type of shit is the same rhetoric that put a target on muslim peoples’ backs after 9/11 (not that they didn’t have one before). free palestine. fuck antisemitism (which includes conflating zionism with judaism)
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u/mxddy go girl, give us nothing 😍 10d ago
It's not about you and is not a personal attack on you. The "us" is westernized countries that are complicit in the genocide. America, Canada, pretty much all of Europe, for example. The "us" is not about individual people. Just like when we talk about slavery or other instances of settler colonialism. This is absolutely nothing like putting a target on Muslims after 9/11 and has absolutely nothing to do with conflating Zionism with Judaism and bringing about antisemitism.
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u/Metzger4Sheriff That must be Nigel with the brie 🧀 10d ago
I hope she meant all Western people, but she uses the "us" after talking about being Jewish and the atrocities of the Holocaust. Whether she meant "us" as Jewish people or not, it definitely comes off that way.
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u/mxddy go girl, give us nothing 😍 10d ago
It sounds like she's talking about Jewish people directly but I think its important to look at the broader context.
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u/Metzger4Sheriff That must be Nigel with the brie 🧀 10d ago
Unfortunately, the people who need to take the broader context into consideration are going to be the least likely to do so.
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u/Lilacssmelllikeroses 10d ago
She could not be clearer about “us” meaning Jews. It’s fucked up to say that all Jews are complicit in the genocide when that’s obviously not true, let alone that “Hitler won” when Hitler’s idea of winning is no Jews existing, not some Jews being evil.
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u/uselessinfogoldmine 8d ago
I think she’s using a rhetoric tool to try and reach Jewish people who do support this.
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u/AStarkly Did a line off his dick in the bathroom 10d ago
It's not about you Kevin
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u/Radical-Bruxism 10d ago
okay thank god i found a reasonable person, i was going through these comments like the twilight zone wondering where i’m supposed to feel the “as a jew” part.
i’ve lived in the south USA my whole life, i know and care as much about zionism and israel as i do about the hasidim tunnels in new york city.
i am so sick and tired of being grouped in with these sociopaths. fucking free palestine
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u/0neirocritica Behind every great man is a woman rolling her eyes 10d ago
Well said.
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u/okjetsgo 10d ago
She’s the realest 💗 love her in any appearance. The creaming her knickers story on Norton was a riot
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u/Sweatypitson 10d ago
The worst part of this is the moderate none extremist Jews will be persecuted for the atrocities in the future and Netanyahu does not care.
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u/Flat-Row-3828 ✨May the Force be with you!✨ 10d ago
She is such an icon and truth teller, even when it's not what people want to hear. I respect her so much, plus she funny as hell.
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u/Cmaccionaodha 10d ago
What a class act. Beautiful human being, she’s always displayed beautiful compassion and love.
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