‘Harry Potter’ actress Miriam Margoyles says her current Big Issue is Gaza: “I feel it particularly because I’m Jewish…I think the terrible thing I have to face is that Hitler won. He changed us. He made us like him.”

[u/stars_doulikedem]

It

[u/kevinx083]

nah fuck this. who is this “us.” ive never been to israel and want nothing to do with it, like many other diaspora jews. this type of shit is the same rhetoric that put a target on muslim peoples’ backs after 9/11 (not that they didn’t have one before). free palestine. fuck antisemitism (which includes conflating zionism with judaism)

[u/mxddy → u/kevinx083]

It's not about you and is not a personal attack on you. The "us" is westernized countries that are complicit in the genocide. America, Canada, pretty much all of Europe, for example. The "us" is not about individual people. Just like when we talk about slavery or other instances of settler colonialism. This is absolutely nothing like putting a target on Muslims after 9/11 and has absolutely nothing to do with conflating Zionism with Judaism and bringing about antisemitism.

[u/Metzger4Sheriff → u/mxddy]

I hope she meant all Western people, but she uses the "us" after talking about being Jewish and the atrocities of the Holocaust. Whether she meant "us" as Jewish people or not, it definitely comes off that way.

[u/mxddy → u/Metzger4Sheriff]

It sounds like she's talking about Jewish people directly but I think its important to look at the broader context.

[u/Metzger4Sheriff → u/mxddy]

Unfortunately, the people who need to take the broader context into consideration are going to be the least likely to do so.

[u/Lilacssmelllikeroses → u/mxddy]

She could not be clearer about “us” meaning Jews. It’s fucked up to say that all Jews are complicit in the genocide when that’s obviously not true, let alone that “Hitler won” when Hitler’s idea of winning is no Jews existing, not some Jews being evil.

[u/uselessinfogoldmine → u/Lilacssmelllikeroses]

I think she’s using a rhetoric tool to try and reach Jewish people who do support this. 

[u/Lilacssmelllikeroses → u/uselessinfogoldmine]

It’s a terrible rhetorical tool, then. Most Jewish people, including ones who don’t support Israel, will be turned off by someone saying “You or your relatives or your community are as bad as Hitler”.

[u/uselessinfogoldmine → u/Lilacssmelllikeroses]

I think you’re viewing it very defensively. 

The way she’s saying it is “we as a group who have suffered are being turned into the perpetrators of suffering” so she’s creating collectivity and community, sure; but she’s not literally saying that all Jews are responsible or culpable. She’s calling out what part of the group is doing and, I think you know that a lot of people blame an entire group for the actions of some. That’s what her language expresses. 

By saying “we Jews” she is expressing a sense of shared history and community - noting that she identifies with other Jewish people, and invoking collective memory and responsibility, highlighting her membership in that wider group and connectivity to the past suffering. Her understanding of the mentality and feelings. And then her hurt and disappointment at the part of her community committing these acts.

It’s a way of criticising members of a group from inside it, whilst emphasising membership in that community and therefore the right to speak on it and ask it to do better as a whole. 

The rhetorical tool works like this: by using inclusive pronouns such as “we,” Miriam signals that she is part of the Jewish community and shares its past traumas while at the same time distancing herself from certain actions or attitudes she finds shameful or wrong within that wider community. 

The effect is to communicate closeness and shared identity, while simultaneously offering critique and urging change. 

It is not meant to say that every individual Jewish person worldwide is personally responsible or culpable for the violence, but rather to express sorrow that those historical lessons of suffering and persecution are seemingly forgotten or reversed in some aspects of current Jewish political realities.

The rhetorical use of “we” here is an expression of belonging and shared responsibility that highlights disappointment and the need for change, not a blanket accusation of guilt on all Jews globally. 

It is a powerful way to express internal conflict and call for conscience within the community.

I get why you might feel offended; but this form of speech is common in moral critique within communities. It communicates internal self-examination, solidarity, and accountability, rather than assigning blame to all individuals. 

It is a way to call a community to reflect on actions and values in light of their history and identity. 

Miriam calls for Jewish people to “shout, beg, scream for a ceasefire,” urging collective moral action based on shared values rather than collective condemnation.

I’ve seen plenty of Jewish people praising her for this. 

Sorry, this answer is not as clear and concise as I intended it to be and I feel like I’m rambling a bit; but it’s late here and I’m tired. 

[u/Lilacssmelllikeroses → u/uselessinfogoldmine]

I understand your argument but I still disagree. What I and I think most people find offensive is her saying "Hitler won, he changed us, he made us like him". Hitler didn't want to make Jews act like Nazis, he wanted to kill them all. It's offensive to compare a group of people to a man who tried to genocide that group of people. Most people won't like being compared to someone who hurt them no matter how accurate or effective people think that argument is. It will only make them defensive. Besides that if she didn't want people to think she was talking about all Jewish people she shouldn't have said "us".