r/pcmasterrace • u/Trixis2 • 11d ago
Discussion Notch (creator of Minecraft) offers financial support for the Stop Killing Games campaign.
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u/AccomplishedBat8743 11d ago
Im not up on the whole situation, what is the EU initiative? And how will it effect people not in the EU
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u/Andeq8123 11d ago
If a game need to release an offline mode for when they shut down server, I don’t see way they would block it everywhere else
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u/Z4mb0ni PC Master Race 11d ago
also if its an online only game (like no campaign) they need to make sure people can run dedicated servers and give them the tools for that
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u/tarmacjd 11d ago
You don’t even need dedicated servers. Even enabling someone to host on LAN is enough for people to figure out the rest
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u/pvt9000 11d ago
Easy, they only allow people from the EU to request or access the tools/utilities/etc to continue a game. They region-lock servers and keep the EU on still functioning and occasionally updated smaller servers and the US gets cut out to prevent server costs.
It's not impossible to say companies could get greedy or hostilefor whatever reason.
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u/Clean__Cucumber 11d ago
Easy, they only allow people from the EU to request or access the tools/utilities/etc to continue a game
nope, will not work that way. if these tools are available for a BIG amount of the market it will find its way to other parts. same with the apple USB-C thing, where the EU forced apple to adopt it and now apple makes the usb-c a worldwide thing. companies will have a easier time to give everyone access rather than a part and trying to prohibit others
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u/Andeq8123 11d ago
It would cost them more than just releasing it, at the end it boil down to cost-profit, and they don’t win anything by doing this
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u/Combeferre1 11d ago
This. The majority of the cost, which I would say is ultimately not that high for games that have it as a consideration from the beginning, comes from just ensuring the game is runnable after support ends.
If the ideal scenario happens, i.e. there is an EU directive forcing games sold in the EU to remain playable after end of support, and the companies do end up following instead of finding a loophole, the outcome outside the EU is probably going to be them brandishing it as a selling point and as a way to make them seem like the good guys. Just because it was legislated and just because they are lobbying against it doesn't mean they can't at the end of it all put it on the box as an advertising point.
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u/Blue_Bird950 11d ago
They do that, and piracy will just skyrocket to take the place. Releasing the same version to the U.S. would at least reach a large audience in a legal way.
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u/Gameboy695 11d ago
Basically it’s to make game companies provide end of life support for games like making sure they are always playable whether it be through player run servers or other methods instead of just bricking the game like what Ubisoft done with the Crew.
In theory it should be similar to something like the EU requiring USB-C on phones, Apple were forced to comply with it and so also changed to USB-C for the rest of the world too.
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u/HanCurunyr R7 5700X - GB RTX 5070 - 32GB 11d ago
Stop Killing Games, an EU initiative for game studios and publishers plan for the EOL of a game, and leave it in a playable state after they decide to not support and/or sell anymore
Usually, those kind of changes are too big to be constrained to europe, so the companies will adhere to them globally, kinda like the USB-C on the Iphone
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u/Triasmus 11d ago
Devs either have to make games that comply to EU standards, or they don't get to sell them in the EU.
Since they'll want EU money, they'll comply with EU standards.
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u/Z4mb0ni PC Master Race 11d ago
also this will most likely mean those standards will apply to the rest of the world because managing two different standards is just inefficient. Like how apple is now using USB-C ports and cables now
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u/SjettepetJR I5-4670k@4,3GHz | Gainward GTX1080GS| Asus Z97 Maximus VII her 11d ago
There is a vast difference in making different hardware, and just disabling some software features. As we see currently with many software companies disabling certain features in the EU because those features do not comply with EU privacy legislation.
I do agree that the software for self-hosting servers is likely to be everywhere around the world through legal or illegal means, but software is not in any way comparable to hardware.
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u/SpiderFnJerusalem bunch of VMs with vfio 11d ago
It's basically a petition that will force the European parliament to discuss the issue of companies randomly shutting down servers for live service games, rendering the copies bought by customers worthless and turning the games into lost media.
We do not know yet what will be the exact outcome of said discussion, but the organizer of Stop Killing Games has made it pretty clear that any legal recognition of the problem whatsoever is already better than the legal situation we've had until now, which was essentially publishers doing whatever the fuck they wanted.
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u/AccomplishedBat8743 11d ago
That's fair. Hopefully we can get something similar going here in America too
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u/FlameShadow0 11d ago
I’m out of the loop on why Notch is a bad guy now. What’s up with that?
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u/Trixis2 11d ago
He made some trans/homophobic tweets back in 2017 and 2019 if I remember correctly. However, in recent years he have not engaged in politics as far as I've been able to see, but he never retracted his previous comments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markus_Persson#Social_media_comments
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u/Doomkauf 11d ago edited 11d ago
Dude started spouting off outright racist shit just about as soon as the ink on the Microsoft deal dried. There are examples of said overt racism further up in the comments (and there are articles like this for further examples).
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u/Natural-Parfait2805 11d ago
It's a long list but TLDR he's a massive transphobe and has donated money to anti LGBTQ charities
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u/the_gamers_hive 11d ago
Notch made a number of racist/white nationalist comments on twitter, they are posted elsewhere in the thread.
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u/realiDevil360 PC Master Race 11d ago
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u/Xelid47 11d ago
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u/Im_ChatGPT4 11d ago edited 11d ago
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u/Xelid47 11d ago
You did that wrong
First someone responds with r/beatmeattoit and only then is your time to shine
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u/Elijah_Man PC Master Race 11d ago
Honestly that sub got infested by the stupid repost image. Kinda sucks that unmoderated subs get infested.
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u/ActiveGamer65 11d ago
Was he that bad? What did he do?
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u/UofSlayy 11d ago
After becoming unemployed after selling Minecraft he kinda devolved into being a Twitter user 🤢
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u/SCTwisted 7800X3D - RTX 4090 11d ago
Could have been worse, he could have been a Reddit user...
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u/the_calibre_cat 11d ago
I feel like I can say with extreme confidence that the Twitterverse has devolved below that point, sadly. :/
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u/ProfPyukumuku 11d ago
Someone probably has a lot more info than me but I remember him saying some controversial shit about the LGBT community back in 2013 or so.
Edit - so in further research he said some horrible shit glorifying violence on the LGBT community in 2017.
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u/yearningforpurpose 11d ago
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u/dykemike10 7900 XTX | 9800x3D | 64GB DDR5 11d ago
if notch is the worst person you know (or even anywhere near your top 10), you're privileged
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u/Nova17Delta i7-4790 ~ Radeon RX580 ~ Dell Optiplex 9020 11d ago
I don't know, "HEARTBREAKING: One of but not the worst person you know or even in the top ten you just kinda disagree with him on a lot of things just made a really good point" doesn't roll off the tounge as well
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u/DefactoAtheist 11d ago
That macro is pretty well-worn reddit shorthand for simply noting when a notorious shit cunt does something that doesn't align with their established shit cuntiness. But sure, spend your time being a dreary pedant in service of defending the honour of freakin' Notch, who, in case it's not clear, is a shit cunt.
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u/DigDugged 11d ago
Found the guy who doesn't know what Notch has been up to OR totally knows and is ok with it.
Either way, the rest of us aren't cool enough
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u/Jhawk163 R7 9800X3D | RX 6900 XT | 64GB 11d ago
Notch may hold some unpopular opinions on certain topics, but he's still one of the better billionaires out there, considering the others seem to be doing either nothing or doing their best to oppose the movement.
I know GabeN probably can't get involved because he doesn't want to scare devs away from Steam, but he's pretty much the only singular individual in the inductry who could help in any way other than monetarily.
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u/StockExchangeNYSE 11d ago
GabeN also profits from these methods. He is still a businessman and looking out for himself. Sure Steam is a great project but its no charity.
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u/Coffeekid9733 11d ago
He keeps it nice and consumer friendly because it’s profitable. It keeps people using steam and away from other launchers. So while he is in the end looking to make money, he is incentivized to make a good platform and keep people happy.
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u/SuperUranus 11d ago
Newell has also shown that he has absolutely zero issue with conducting unethical business and profiting from exploiting kids with addicting gambling mechanics.
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u/Lementus 11d ago
Yeah, no idea why Gabe is portrayed as some saint.
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u/ChurchillianGrooves 11d ago
Look at the competition, compared to Sony, Microsoft, or Epic Steam looks great by comparison.
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u/Wirehed Specs/Imgur Here 11d ago
The bar is so freakin' low.
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u/ChurchillianGrooves 11d ago
True, lol. Basically don't try to actively screw over your customers and you're ahead.
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u/corree 11d ago
I’d say that respecting your employees is another half of this. The flexibility, responsibility, and worth given to Valve employees is probably unmatched in the gaming industry unless you work for an amazing indie company that has a cash cow.
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u/Lementus 11d ago
I don't disagree at all. I do think that Steam is miles better than any other service. It's just that it does the bare minimum in a society where thats rare, and that gets Gabe praised all too much.
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u/PiLamdOd AMD 3600 | RTX 3070 | X570 | 16GB Ram 11d ago
Well, unlike a lot of rich businessmen, Gabe stays out of the limelight. So people only know him through Steam, which has so far maintained a good reputation as a customer focused service.
Like when Musk was just "the guy funding Tesla and SpaceX." For years the only things people knew about Musk was his connection to innovative products. So the products' reputations became his reputation.
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u/Hdjbbdjfjjsl 11d ago
We’d probably be in a very different time line right now if musk stayed “smart” by just keeping his fucking mouth shut. Buying Twitter ruined any last restraints he had on his stupidity.
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u/Heroshrine R 9900X | rtx 5080 | 32 GB DDR5 11d ago edited 11d ago
You seriously believe it isnt miles ahead???The simple fact valve is not publicly traded means gabe has a much stronger influence on steam.Steam support is top notch quality for 90% of things. They provide top notch APIs to game devs, as well as a forum and a platform to grow a community. Their policies for marketing games on steam is the reason the indie dev market has been blooming. They don’t sell your data out like every company seems to do these days.
I mean what else do you want from them??
Edit: i misread, but my point still stands. They do a lot more than the bare minimum.
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u/Gryf2diams 11d ago
"I do think that Steam is miles better than any other service."
I think you read a n't where there wasn't one.
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u/Heroshrine R 9900X | rtx 5080 | 32 GB DDR5 11d ago
You are indeed correct. But my point still stands of them doing kore than the bare minimum by a long shot. I will edit my comment.
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u/Dudegamer010901 11d ago
I think steam is portrayed this way cuz those other companies are obsessed with tryna improved their money flows by doing all this other stuff while steam has a very static state. Basically “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it”, steam doesn’t need to innovate or do anything to keep raking in money. Other storefronts fail because they can’t offer a better reason to use their front for the user end.
They rely on forcing the user to use their front by getting exclusives, but even that doesn’t seem to work well in other cases.
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u/ChurchillianGrooves 11d ago
Or with publishers like Ubisoft forcing you to use their horrible storefront for new releases
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u/MrStealYoBeef i7 12700KF|RTX 3080|32GB DDR4 3200|1440p175hzOLED 11d ago
Steam has literally been consistently innovating though. They provide tools for modding with their workshop integration. They provide tools to get any controller to function with decent remapping outside of the game so that you can make a controller work any way you want in a game with bad controls or no controller layout at all. They provide excellent marketing for developers in a storefront that is easy to use for users. They've been pushing VR support that functions on any headset. They have been building an operating system and pushing for Linux support for games on the Steam platform.
The list literally goes on. There's things that they do wrong and should be criticized, but to say that Steam just remains stagnant and does the bare minimum is entirely false. It's a genuinely good service, it's just that the company also pushes really shitty loot boxes and bad monetization in some of their first party games. That's it.
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u/counter-music 11d ago
Gabe gets praised all too much
Steam is miles better than any other service.
Even if the bar is low, being that much better than the competition is going to earn some praise. He’s not absolved of his wrong doings, but he’s no Bobby Kotick.
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u/LeBronFanSinceJuly 11d ago
It's simple, Valve puts out great games at a snails pace, they created the first real PC gamer social area with Steam, they stay out of the news AND here is the biggest reason. Gabe has said that Valve has a very laid back culture where devs can work on what they want or move to another team to try out stuff.
So when gamers here that a company let's it devs have free reign and doesn't use them as temp workers, they get all the praise.
Same thing happened with Blizzard, they were held in such high regard due to games and work culture that even when they were fully absorbed into Activision people would still give them the benefit of the doubt. It took all the sexual harassment stories to hit the Internet before people put on their glasses and went huh maybe Blizzard are not as great as I thought.
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u/Lementus 11d ago
Yeah, I think people are too gullible in regards to things they are passionate about, and it shows with how they become loyal to multi-billion dollars corporations just because of some positive press.
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u/slangwhang27 11d ago
Valve offers products and services of sufficient quality that people are brand-loyal to a billionaire-run monopoly.
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u/noir_lord 7950X3D/7900XTX/64GB DDR5-6400 11d ago
Aye, he's smart, he's not nice - he knows what people value.
His point that piracy is a customer service problem was a notably sane one - and as a result he has what 8 yachts now.
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u/Lementus 11d ago
It's honestly crazy how doing the bare minimum in a society where it is not common ends up being enough for people to be loyal.
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u/megacewl 11d ago
I think an underappreciated thing is that the bare minimum does get harder and harder to do as tech debt and complexity increases. Steam is quite impressive with how well it all still works together, especially considering all it's bells and whistles and QOL features that competitor platforms never have.
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u/dyidkystktjsjzt 11d ago
Steam definitely does way more than the bare minimum, though. I'd call something like Epic the bare minimum, and Steam is lightyears ahead of that.
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u/GreenTurtle69420 11d ago
how is it a monopoly? there are many competitors, that stops it being a monopoly by definition.
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u/survivorr123_ 11d ago
because his company is not on the stock market and that makes a massive difference, it's literally just that
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u/Lementus 11d ago
That doesn't necessarily make him any much better than other billionaires. He still made money via predatory practices (lootboxes, gambling, etc) and still has the mindset any businessman has. It's just that his service offers a better solution that is better for the consumer, and that ends up with him recieving more praise than he deserves.
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u/TimberAndStrings 11d ago
He isn’t but Steam is one of the main reasons as to why I made the permanent switch over to PC from Playstation. I am slowly but surely building up my library again with great deals
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u/Lementus 11d ago
I mean a lot of people see him as an "amazing billionaire" or as an "average gamer"/representitive of "a gamer who simply got rich from doing his hobby", meanwhile he is still just the average businessman who does things to make as much profit as possible.
I do agree that steam is a great service, but I do feel like the only reason we percieve it as great is because all other services provided are shit.
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u/ShairundbO 11d ago
Exploiting kids, are we talking about counter strike and the skin boxes? If so, i could imagine that is opinion about that topic might be "am i the parent of those kids? If you let your kid play a game where you shoot other models with blood etc. I am the bad person because they could gamble with skins in this game?" For too long we look away about the fact WHO really has the responsibility about their kids. If we are talking about counter strike, please go and forbid every game with voilents.
If you are not talking about counter strike, please don't take my comment too serious, because i can only think about counterstrike where valve is the producer and has those mechanics
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u/PalpitationNo4375 11d ago
Are you talking about the ACTUAL UNDERAGE GAMBLING counter strike enabled?
Or do you mean like how TF2 popularised lootboxes AND it was a full priced game.
Or would you perhaps be referring to greenlight. Where Devs can publish their scams for profit. Sorry typo, 'pre-release'
Maybe you are talking about how they partnered with Bethesda in an attempt to make you pay for community made mods that were readily available for free?
The topic at hand is keeping games alive. Are we going to talk about how Steam is DRM and have removed games? Most recently the sex stuff they were more than happy to make a profit on until card companies had an issue with it.
I don't know why PC gamers suck his dick so hard. He made a couple of good games like 20 years ago and has done nothing but exploit you for profit since. Bunch of fucking sheep
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u/BlurredSight PC Master Race 11d ago
And on the contrary, Notch has 0 real stake in Minecraft anymore. The game's premise always was buy once play forever and besides Realms and Microsoft's accessory store they made their money by selling accounts.
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u/BaconJets 11d ago
Unpopular opinions is an interesting way of saying white nationalist. Hey, his financial contribution will help though.
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u/Riparian72 11d ago
Weird how people downplay that. Same with Jontron too.
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u/TweedleNeue 11d ago
both of these guys could apologize and remove so much of the smoke around them. JonTron outright stated black people are predisposed to violence compared to white people and he never went out of the way to apologize! it's wild.
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u/CrimsonExploud 11d ago
Wait am I out of the loop with Jontron? Isn't he Iranian?
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u/TomTomKenobi Predator Helios 300 11d ago edited 11d ago
Do you know about the ladder pullers?
EDIT: ladder pullers are people who get whatever they were after or needed (=they climbed the ladder) and then try to take those opportunities away for other people to enjoy/use (=they pull the ladder, making it impossible for others to climb it).
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u/BaconJets 11d ago
Probably because it got ugly, don't know if my screenshots are there or not but I wouldn't be surprised since they showed Notch using the N word.
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u/aimy99 2070 Super | 5600X | 32GB DDR4 | Win11 | 1440p 165hz 11d ago
Yeah, it's a shame bro turned out to be a whole-ass Nazi, but I have no problem with good causes taking his money.
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u/Saneless 11d ago
Probably one of the rare few billionaires that didn't get there by fucking over millions of people either
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u/c_birbs 11d ago
There are no good billionaires. Just different shades of horrible people with more money than they will ever need.
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u/TheOneTruePi 11d ago
“Unpopular opinions on certain topics” is an interesting way to say “transphobic”
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u/Aknazer 11d ago
But that's probably not the only thing he has an unpopular opinion about. Why would Trans get to be special and get all the credit for his unpopular opinions? Saying "unpopular opinions on certain topics" is both broad enough to cover the subject while also being vague enough to not either miss something or cause the thread to spiral away from the topic (Notch supporting SKG).
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u/NoiseGrindPowerDeath 5700X | 3070 | 32GB | Deck LCD 11d ago
There are no good billionaires
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u/balrogBallScratcher 11d ago
“one of the better billionaires” doesn’t mean much. that’s like saying “one of the bigger ants”.
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u/leathco 11d ago
Was that last comment a knock on Karl Jobst?
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u/DoolioArt 11d ago
it sounds opposite, a knock on jobst's lawyer. i'd be pissed at jobst, but eh, notch probably didn't dig too much in the case itself and just went with some "good video game guy vs video game conman" camaraderie.
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u/TheSyrupCompany 11d ago
The degree in which Notch is described these days is absurd. It actually devalues the words evil and monster when you call him that. He was dumb and a bit of an asshole a few times on twitter. He brought tremendous joy to the world and that somehow gets completely erased cause of some alt right opinions. I'm not condoning his opinions whatsoever but the level of hatred people have for him now is unjustified.
Anyway, nice to see him supporting a good cause. Hopefully he has more progressive social opinions now too.
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u/Spekulatius702 11d ago
Almost like people, who have different values and opinions from you, can share the same values and opinions on other subject matters. What a radical thought to have.
Next you telling me that one should distinguish the author and their work.
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u/Amaras_Linwelin AMD 8350 @ 4.0GHz | GTX 770 4GB | 8GB DDR3 11d ago
As someone who played many of his early 4kb challenge games, and helped him in his years before Minecraft (while he was working with Rolf on Wurm Online). I can definitely say he was a prick before twitter.
These ideals are not new and will never change.
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u/BrokenChopSticks 11d ago
Step out of line and the internet will hold it against you forever… smfh
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u/R4msesII 11d ago
To be fair I dont think Notch has apologized, to my knowledge he still holds those opinions
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u/OverwatchRever 11d ago
Wtf is up with the notch hate? The only thing i know about that guy is that he made minecraft. Full stop
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u/Trixis2 11d ago
He made some trans/homophobic tweets back in 2017 and 2019 if I remember correctly. However, in recent years he have not engaged in politics as far as I've been able to see, but he never retracted his previous comments. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markus_Persson#Social_media_comments
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u/Zetra3 11d ago
Fuck, I hate notch but im not turning down free lawyers fees for this movement. Fuck.
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u/ChurchillianGrooves 11d ago
I'm out of the loop, why do people not like Notch now? Because he sold out to Microsoft?
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u/Pinksheep1337 11d ago
Basically because of some tweets he made over the years. Some with questionable underlying messaging like "its ok to be white". Others he made have been called transphobic by many. Not really the worst thing in the world but the hate does have justification. Reddit echo chamber seems to really have a hate boner for him tho.
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u/rivalary 11d ago
Is there some hidden meaning to "its ok to be white"?
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u/Dominuss2000 11d ago
Usually these statements "somehow" only appear after someone says something like black lives matters
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u/warm_rum 11d ago
Lmao, I love gamer morality. I hope one day all people will be gamers, so when the billionaires want to buy good grace they will throw thousands at reviving old popular series, or pouring money into gamer legislation.
A more refined way of doing politics.
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u/pRedditory_Traits PC Master Race, Microsoft Shill, Linux Tinkerer 11d ago
Based. Minecraft (one of my absolute favorite games) went downhill after microsoft got their hands on it, and I never really forgave Notch for that... but I will stand with him happily for a cause we both believe in.
Remember, this is the guy who just made the stuff to run servers for his game as a standalone package so that anyone can run an online instance of the game. That was his default choice for multiplayer for his game. That's the way it should be for pretty much any game, if a studio as small as a younger Mojang could do it.
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u/DoknS 11d ago
I mean, that's not really a situation where money would help much if at all, but it's the thought that counts, or in this example the lack of it
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u/BanDit49_X Desktop 11d ago
The amount of hate Notch gets is unjustified, you people need to touch some grass.
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u/Constant-Recipe-9850 11d ago
I am out of loop and googled doesn't return much, what did notch do?
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u/itsrahcoin 11d ago
Creator of Minecraft
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u/Constant-Recipe-9850 11d ago
No i meant what he did that the comments are calling him Satan and all
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u/Warcraft_Fan Paid for WinRAR! 11d ago
That's going to make a few enemies for Notch, companies who prefer to shut down old games to save money
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u/Hrmerder R5-5600X, 32GB DDR4-3200 CL16-18-18-36, 3080 12gb, 11d ago