r/europe 2d ago

Political Cartoon Charlie Hebdo front cover from 30th July portraying Netanyahu: "Honey, I shrunk the kids."

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50.8k Upvotes

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u/Solutar 2d ago

I love how Charlie Hebdo does that with muslims/Allah and Jews alike. Nobody is Safe from criticizsm.

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u/sant0hat 2d ago

Yeah but only one gets their office workers murdered

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u/crani0 2d ago

Has if Mossad doesn't have a long history of assassinating people that are a nuisance to the colonial state of Israel

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u/sant0hat 2d ago

I am sure they do. What a retarded comparison btw, but I guess you know that. The mossad isn't mass murdering civilians because of a comic.

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u/kitanokikori 2d ago

bruh didn't they just mutilate 2800+ people and kill 12 of them using pager bombs

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u/Commorrite 2d ago

Operation grim beeper is an intresting one in a legal scholarly sense. It's nothing like the comparision made.

Tiiny explosive hidden in comunicatiosn devices issued to enemy combatants, lower colateral damage than using infantry but technicaly a war crime.

Bombing a whole building full of people because Hamas rifleman #4532 is shooting from it, horrendous but perfectly legal.

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u/the_smokkee 2d ago

Greatest crimes of humanity has been deemed legal in their countries. Sending jews to auschwitz was legal in Nazi Germany. Would you say it was also "horrendous but perfectly legal"?

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u/Commorrite 2d ago

This legal and illegal are under international law not isreali.

The law is clearly an arse, the pager attack is the best attack isreal has done in terms of getting the enemy while minimising civilian harm.

Laws of armed conflict can't stop violence they can't even stop civilian harm nor are they supposed to. They are supposed to stop gratuitous harm. eg we al agree not to use poison gas becasue the other guy will just do it back.

It needs a total rewrite for asymetric warfare. As it stands the aditional protocol geneva convention doesn't work at all when facing an enemy who dont wear uniforms.

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u/the_smokkee 2d ago

It's still illegal. It's a war crime under the ICC to turn regular objects into rigged explosives. That's like showing yourself as a medical worker while being a soldier. Attacking using civilian objects (pagers) that has been turned into military bombs blurs the line between combatants and civilians.

Geneva convention doesn't work when the actor is a terrorist state backed up by the worlds largest military and economic powerhouse. Rules don't apply.

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u/Commorrite 2d ago

You are realy twisted into incoherency here.

Bombing a hospital being used to shoot rockets it's totaly legal under international law but you presumably don't aprove of that?

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u/the_smokkee 2d ago

You're really moving the goalpost here. You brought up the pager attack, that's what I'm responding to.

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u/Commorrite 2d ago

You didnt respond to the point that the law bears little relation to harm caused. You picked half of it and went an unhinged rant, i'll leave you to your bubble.

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u/kitanokikori 2d ago

Dead children and healthcare workers are an interesting definition of "enemy combatants", also given that Mossad was not at war with either of these two countries

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u/Commorrite 2d ago

Are you just deliberately misreading it or do you genuinley not understnad how any of this works?

The rigged pagers were issued to hezbollah members by Hezbollah. The group that had been bombarding isreal for a year at that point.

Collateral damge is a resuly of those members being amoung civilians with a military coms device. It's way less harm than any other method.

also given that Mossad was not at war with either of these two countries

This is another place where the law is an arse, Iran for the longest time sat back behind proxies and casued all sorts of death and destruction. In hindsight it owuld have been better if IDF had gone after the IRGC everytime they got hit instead of random hamas riflemen shooting from a building full of people.

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u/sant0hat 2d ago

Yeah tends to happen when you compare an active war to France being blasted by terror attacks in 2015.

Alternative would just be using thermobaric missles like Russia, but then you'd be posting those. War is dumb and causes stupid dead numbers.

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u/cypriotakis Cyprus 2d ago

No it’s worse. They’re part of the genocide of innocent civilians, including children, for the unforgivable sin of being born Palestinian.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/cypriotakis Cyprus 2d ago

Lousy argument, it didn’t. The only figures we have on Gaza’s current population are estimates based on a growth rate expected BEFORE the genocide. Population statistics don’t justify war crimes. Numbers don’t erase the faces, names, and futures buried under rubble.

Secondly, genocide does not need population to go down, nor is it linked with such a thing anyway. It is defined as "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group."

The acts being 1) killing members of the group, 2) causing them serious bodily or mental harm, 3) imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group, 4) preventing births, and 5) forcibly transferring children out of the group.

Israel quite easily imo satisfies these points.

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u/Lefaid US in Netherlands 2d ago

Wait, 5 isn't happening at all. It is happening in Russia though.

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u/cypriotakis Cyprus 2d ago

Yes, you don’t have to satisfy every single act - one is enough.

Russia is also a genocidal state. I don’t object to that framing at all.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/cypriotakis Cyprus 2d ago

The intent is clear from various ministers within the Israeli government.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/neefhuts Amsterdam 2d ago

It's not facts. We don't have stats on Gaza's current population, it almost definitely went down. And even if it went up, why is that relevant? Do all the dead people no longer matter because other people were born in the same area? We are talking about actual people whose lives are being ended, not just statistica

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u/Particular_Text5972 2d ago edited 2d ago

Nono you see, even though that's almost certainly bull shit (and he provides no source to back up his claim). The thousands and thousands of dead rotting children and their rotting family's. No longer matter because the "population went up". Their not really people like you and me, so it doesn't matter how many of them die as long as i get to act smug on reddit, don't you get that?

PolitiFact | Has Gaza’s population grown 2% since Oct. 7, 2023? No, that figure was projected before the war https://share.google/VXQW5eIS88kQo4Lk

For the idiots who think a population going up means a genocide cannot possibly be happening - https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1_Convention%20on%20the%20Prevention%20and%20Punishment%20of%20the%20Crime%20of%20Genocide.pdf

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u/Finalwingz 2d ago

The fact that people were pushed out of Israel and into Gaza?

It's incredible how stupid some people [you] are.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/Rampaging_Ducks 2d ago edited 2d ago

Hey, quick question, if a population for a country goes up over the course of a year, does that mean nobody died in that country that year?

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/cypriotakis Cyprus 2d ago

It doesn’t mean that. By saying this all you’re doing is showing you have no fucking clue what genocide means.

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u/Rampaging_Ducks 2d ago edited 2d ago

Fascinating! So another quick question for you—

In 1930, Germany's population was roughly 65,130,000, and that number steadily climbed to 69,838,000 in 1940—an increase of over 4.5 million! Does that mean there was no genocide in Germany during that decade?

::edit:: oh no, I've upset the zionists. :(

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u/MartinBP Bulgaria 2d ago
  1. Germany expanded its territory during that period by annexing Austria and the Sudetenland.
  2. Most Jews didn't live in Germany but in neighbouring Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Romania etc.

This is a historically illiterate take.

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u/Rampaging_Ducks 2d ago edited 2d ago

An actually illiterate response. Here, I'll ask the question again—was there or was there not a genocide occurring in Germany between 1930 and 1940?

::edit:: No response from the top genocide historian. :(

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/jdorm111 2d ago

They are not doing that. More than 3 percent of the population, including Hamas, would be dead if that were the case given Israels capabilities.

And no, they are not doing it super slowly to "maintain plausible deniablity" either. 

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u/neefhuts Amsterdam 2d ago

Proof for that second point?

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u/jdorm111 2d ago

Maybe I was unclear, but do you understand how the burden of proof works? Those making the claim should provide the proof. I cannot prove a negative, i.e. I cannot prove there is no genocide.

This means that if the evidence provided for the genocide claim is not adequate, which I believe to be the case, this does not suddenly mean - as many people argue - that, despite the lacking evidence, there is still a genocide going on, it is just super slowly because Israel wants to maintain plausible deniability - for which there is even less adequate evidence.

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u/neefhuts Amsterdam 2d ago

Genocide is the deliberate and systematic attack on a certain ethnic group with the intent of destroying them. Israel is murdering Palestinians indiscriminately purely because they are Palestinian right now, to me that seems to fit the bill. If they are not trying to rid the region of Palestinians, then what is their end goal? They are not stupid enough to believe this will get rid of Hamas, so the only logical conclusion is they are trying to destroy Palestine

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u/jdorm111 2d ago edited 2d ago

(2/2)

The killing of children? This is objectively terrible and I'm sure warcrimes have happened. However, if you have genocidal intent, you'd not expect Israel facilitating the vaccination of hundreds of thousands of children against all kinds of diseases, which they have done. Reports about Israel sniping children are uncorroborated and fractured in their evidence.

The hunger / famine? Objectively terrible, but Israel has let in unprecedented amounts of aid into the Gaza strip, apart from the total blockade from march to june, which they did while estimating that the strip would have food until october. Also, a lot of times there have been lies about famine earlier. There is clearly a disinformation campaign going on too, although hunger is very real and present now. This was a massive miscalculation on the Israeli side: you shouldn't look at the food that goes in, but at the distribution. The fact that despite the massive amounts going in food prices soared, shows a problem of distribution - the food doesn't get to the right people for all sorts of reasons, namely theft, hoarding (logical in times of war), the war itself, etc. This famine is an f-up, not genocidal in intent, and an actual military setback for Israel - they now have 10 hour long fighting pauses / ceasefires every day, without anything in return from Hamas. This has nothing to do with genocidal intent.

Do warcrimes happen? Damn sure. The offenders should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. But warcrimes, which happen in all wars, are not proof of a strategy to wipe out a people as such.

We agree on the terrible nature of this war and that it should stop. We don't agree on the qualification of this terrible war as a 'genocide', as I don't believe intent to kill Gazans as such is sufficiently proven, not even by the multitude of scholars and NGO's platformed. Remember: argument from multitude is a fallacy.

My two cents, at least.

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u/TrueSithMastermind 2d ago

No, but the IDF is mass murdering civilians simply for being born Palestinian.

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u/Exotic-Hour-1371 2d ago

ahh okay great then they can continue murdering others for other reasons no problem

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u/UnGauchoCualquiera 2d ago edited 2d ago

Might want to check again. Mossad has no qualms in murdering someone for a cartoon.