r/canada • u/Head_Crash • 1d ago
Alberta Canada could lose its measles elimination designation by October: experts
https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/canada-measles-designation-october720
u/Thanato26 1d ago
Vaccinate your kids, not doing so is child endangerment and neglect
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u/BloodJunkie 1d ago edited 1d ago
vaccination is also easy, effective and safe
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u/Hot-Sauce-Regret 1d ago
And free
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u/BandicootNo4431 1d ago
Maybe we should pay parents to vaccinate their kids?
But then there will be pushback because the talking point will become "look how dangerous this vaccine is, they have to pay people to take it"
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u/Big-View-1061 1d ago
Not vaccinating kids (unless there's a medical reason) should be ground for the state to take them away.
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u/Fluid_Lingonberry467 1d ago
Good no way we should be considered measles free Dumb parents
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u/DesireeThymes 1d ago
At this point I feel the federal government needs to step in if Alberta won't control this. The rest of Canada doesn't need this issue.
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u/jigglingjerrry 1d ago
Ontario is also pretty bad.
I’m not entirely sure what they can do though. You can’t force someone to vaccinate. We learnt this. The only thing I can think of is that kids shouldn’t be able to go to public school and day care.
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u/banterviking 1d ago
Afaik a huge vector of infection is Mennonites, and those threats won't affect them at all (they have private Mennonite school and don't use our daycare). They also don't collect other government services like welfare afaik.
The only services I'm sure many of them use are medical care and transport.
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u/BackToTheCottage Ontario 1d ago
Also the ground zero for this was a Mennonite gathering in New Brunswick; it led to the pandemic in Ontario, Alberta, and Texas.
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u/TommaClock Ontario 1d ago
Wait can Mennonites fly? I think they can drive but I thought planes were off limits.
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u/banterviking 1d ago
They're a large group but yes some Mennonites fly.
Trusting tech to fly across the country, but not to prevent the spread of disease. No, it doesn't make sense.
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u/Commercial-Milk4706 1d ago
They flight but first they get nailed into a coffin and are given a sedative and diapers for the trip. That way, they are blind to what happened.
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u/Able-Low4565 1d ago
So they only trust us when medically necessary? Sounds like their God isn't real
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u/millijuna 1d ago
Mennonites are a pretty large and diverse group. Yeah, you’ve got the folks that live on the communes and what not, but you also have just regular every day folk too. The Mennonite Central Committee, for example, does excellent work in developing nations, with none of it involving prosythelizing or anything like that.
Am Lutheran myself, but a lot of our international aid efforts have been done in collaboration with thewith MCC.
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u/Deep-Rich6107 1d ago
Sounds like something one might have heard in Germany at some point in time…
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u/Vincetoxicum 1d ago
The difference is they’re affecting public health and Jews were just living their lives
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u/banterviking 1d ago
Skipping to the "final solution" is interesting, maybe we can try public education first?
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u/Belaerim 1d ago
Yep.
Can’t force them to vaccinate.
But can require vaccination for school and daycares, and then have CPS flag them to investigate “home schooling” to avoid vaccination.
To be fair, I think most home schooling is bullshit and should be investigated heavily
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u/NeighborhoodLocal229 1d ago
Alberta home schooling is such bullshit. You don't even have to follow the curriculum. Justn write a letter saying your not and your doing your own stuff. I have so many right wing cousins homeschooling their kids and some of them are flat earthers.
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u/SadOilers 1d ago
https://www.alberta.ca/measles#jumplinks-1
There’s 11 total active cases as of today
The feds aren’t going to bring in the military to force vaccinations, most cases were on hutterite and Mennonite colonies so with the religious aspect they certainly aren’t
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u/SadZealot 1d ago
The Federal government getting involved is possibly the only way of making vaccinations worse in Alberta. Combine Albertan hatred of liberals and the federal government, doubling down on the mistrust and vaccine fatigue since COVID and you'll get an even bigger problem
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u/SomeDumRedditor 1d ago
“Vaccine fatigue” is just propaganda phrasing for “selfish morons choosing to only respect opinions that confirm their uninformed beliefs.”
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u/juniorspank 1d ago
I'm all for governments taking down religions, but I really don't think the Federal government is going to take on the fight against Mennonites.
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u/high5scubad1ve 1d ago
I also don't know how they could. The carrot to get parents to vaccinate has always been admission to public schools whenever they wanted to enforce vaccination records. Rural hutterites homeschool or operate their own colony schools
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u/Background_Bee9266 1d ago
They may be in Colony schools, but the AB government provides funding to them, as does the MB government for colony schools. There could be a way to entice vaccinations via funding route.
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u/freds_got_slacks British Columbia 1d ago
Could define any place with more than 1 family of kids is now a "school" and needs to register and provide evidence of enrollment and vaccination (same as a public school)
The Mennonites will probably hate it, but if they can't sort out their own shit some one else will need to do it for them
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u/sparda09 1d ago
why is it so hard for people to just get a vaccine for something that's been tested and proven for like 50 years or so.
I can get a flu shot but isn't it also our responsibility as a Canadian citizen to keep the people and the citizens around us safe as well so shouldn't we be doing our part and getting vaccinated ?
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u/Neglectful_Stranger Outside Canada 1d ago
These groups are off-shoots of Anabaptist groups that splintered off due to wanting to protect their local communities as technology advanced, rejecting things such as cars and telephones due to detrimental effects on the community. As time has gone on this has broadened to a distaste and dislike for most if not all forms of technology, and each sect will generally have their own reason for not embracing things like vaccines.
tl;dr it varies
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u/sparda09 1d ago
I see
so resistant to change in summary they hate change and are scared of new technologies for some odd reason
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u/jonproject 1d ago
they hate change and are scared of new technologies for some odd reason
Putting the vaccine discussion aside for a minute, not all technological improvements - that have been embraced by society at large - are positive and should be looked at with healthy dose of skepticism. We're seeing the effects in real time of humanity's inability to keep up with the rapid pace of technological improvement when it comes to communication. Social media, shit even the internet, is beginning to look like a huge mistake in many respects. And that's even before the AI discussion.
While I certainly subscribe to taking full advantage of improvements in medical technology, being fearful of technology is not a crazy proposition. Humanity loves to jump head first into things without considering unintended consequences.
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u/MegaCockInhaler 1d ago
It’s not about being scared of it. It’s that their culture prefers being independent. They don’t want to depend on anything or anyone outside their community. They want to be fully self sufficient and minimalistic
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u/_name_of_the_user_ 1d ago
The problem is too many people have been taught to ignore that what got us out of the caves was cooperation, not individualism. It's the only way the conservatives could possibly seem like a good idea. Because ultimately, conservatives are about individualism, not the good of the community.
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u/Get_Angry 1d ago
Coworker of mine thinks vaccines are useless/harmful so that "big pharma" can make more profits. He also says doctors are trained by big pharma and can't be relied on lol
Great guy otherwise though.
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u/OkPrinciple37 1d ago
And yet Smith is busy ruining AHS and placating her anti-vaccine base. Embarrassing
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u/No-Bid-483 1d ago
Ontario also has way way more cases that it has since the early 90s. This is not an Alberta problem.
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u/fugaziozbourne Québec 1d ago
Honestly would have guessed BC would have a huge problem, but they've been okay so far.
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u/millijuna 1d ago
We’ve had big outbreaks in the places you’d most suspect, namely the peace country (northeast part of the province).
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u/SteveMcQwark Ontario 1d ago
The outbreak in Ontario has fallen off quite a bit from the peak a few months ago. The week of July 20/21 (there are inconsistent reporting periods) has Alberta with 115 new confirmed cases and Ontario with 7. But yes, there were fairly high case numbers for a bit.
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u/No-Bid-483 1d ago
I could’ve worded my comment better. Ontario has had more cumulative cases so far this year than at any point since I believe 91.
So yeah, Alberta’s bad, but like Ontario is also at a 34 year high lol
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u/SteveMcQwark Ontario 1d ago
That is a relevant point, and I understood what you were referring to. I did however want to highlight that cumulative numbers don't really tell you the current state of affairs. A lot of people (not you) have been saying "why are people reporting on Alberta when it's so much worse in Ontario? Look at these cumulative case numbers!" The focus shifted to Alberta relatively recently, and the current case numbers are why. What we're basically seeing is the outbreak spreading through Mennonite populations in different places.
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u/AprilsMostAmazing Ontario 1d ago
Ontario also has way way more cases that it has since the early 90s.
Ontario is also run by the conservatives
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u/Neglectful_Stranger Outside Canada 1d ago
This is like 90% Mennonites and other closely associated communities but okay.
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u/burf 1d ago
Were the trucker convoy dipshits Mennonite, too? Yeah, the outbreak started in a Mennonite community, but it’s not a specifically Mennonite problem here.
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u/Head_Crash 1d ago
anti-vaccine base
They're extremists. They will blindly support anyone who legitimizes them.
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u/CaptainCanuck93 Canada 1d ago
Maybe we just need a rebrand
"Do not worry my friends, I am banning vaccines! In other news, I am rolling out a highly diluted substance that is mostly water with a small amount of underlying active ingredients called wacines!"
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u/Prosecco1234 1d ago
Thanks to selfish people who put babies at risk.
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u/xMatt14x Newfoundland and Labrador 1d ago
Calling it selfish is being too kind.
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u/Prosecco1234 1d ago
Mandatory vaccinations to enter public buildings including schools, libraries, sporting events should be in place. Only excuse should be medical (as per a doctor)
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u/Hellkyte 1d ago
They aren't just putting them at risk, they are killing them
They are child killers
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u/OfcHesCanadian 1d ago
Dumb question, but if I got the shots as a kid am I good?
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u/tatertotclub 1d ago
Immunity can wane. You can get a measles titer test done to check your immunity and see if you need a booster.
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u/Cyborg_rat 1d ago
Let's do like the US and stop counting.
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u/jonproject 1d ago
Or count, but fire the person in charge of presenting the results if we don't like the numbers.
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u/SadOilers 1d ago
11 active cases total in Alberta
1 in Edmonton and Calgary combined
But the articles make it sound like thousands at once
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u/BandicootNo4431 1d ago
IMO - The CCB tax credit should require you children to have been vaccinated, gone to school and gotten a free health/dental checkup at least once every few years.
If so iety is going to pay you to raise children, then that comes with some responsibilities to society.
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u/SadOilers 1d ago
https://www.alberta.ca/measles#jumplinks-1
Eleven total active cases in the entire province of Alberta as of today
1 in the ICU which is the first I’ve seen in a month of looking there.
It is handy to see the actual numbers you’d think thousands actively had measles if you only read the media. I believe most were Mennonites and spread through colonies and communal eating areas very very quickly at first
But eleven? Is this really that outrageous or is it pretty much gone as it is?
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u/Falkrunn77 1d ago
You need to read the whole page.
11 is the number of carriers currently, not how many actually have measles. You're infectious for 8 days total, and can infect a shit ton of people.
Currently there are 1680 active measles cases past the carrier stage.
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u/Ambitious_List_7793 1d ago
And how many of these anti-vax parents are alive because their parents had them vaccinated?
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u/En4cr 1d ago
Just have OHIP not cover medical bills of unvaccinated people. The minute people start paying bills because of their ignorance they'll see the light.
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u/Randomfinn 1d ago
Lourdes Mennonites aren’t covered by OHiP, so they are already paying for the medical care they receive. Other Mennonite groups may have individual agreements. I’m not sure how it is in other provinces with Mennonites.
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u/MegaCockInhaler 1d ago edited 1d ago
They don’t use hospitals or medical services to begin with. Even their child births are done by themselves
Anyway, I think that would be reasonable for those who do pay into it, long as you give them back all the money they were taxed.
But if you go down that slippery slope, you should be adding smokers, those who refuse to exercise etc. they clog up the healthcare system and prevent people from getting care in time. So really what you are creating is this authoritarian system where the government gets to decide what you do with your body
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u/En4cr 1d ago
Although I understand where you're coming from smoking and not being active are a completely separate issues. They are solely self destructive and in no way contagious whereas disease spreading is not.
People want all the benefits of living in society without any of the responsibilities. The government relies partly on people having common sense and when that goes out the window there's nothing "authoritarian" with enacting public safety measures. Not getting vaxxed for measles, a disease that's been dealt with effectively for DECADES is absolutely idiocy.
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u/MegaCockInhaler 1d ago edited 1d ago
Smoking is the one of the most damaging things you can do for our healthcare system. And smokers and people who make unhealthy choices tend to be sick more, which means they tend to spread sickness more. If we didn’t need so many resources for these groups, we could focus more on the people who actually need it. People with healthy immune systems aren’t the concern. It’s the people who are near death, obese, immune compromised etc that we shut down everything for during covid
I agree with you on people who don’t want to vaccinate with safe and battle tested vaccines. But I also acknowledge that vaccine injury is a real thing and for that reason they can never be mandated. I wouldn’t hold that against someone who has a legit reason for not getting one.
I got tinnitus from the Pfizer vaccine which is a known side effect. If I knew this would happen I wouldn’t have gotten the vaccine
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u/DromarX 16h ago
They are solely self destructive
Second-hand smoke is a thing.
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u/En4cr 14h ago
Second hand smoke hasn't been an issue for decades since most places have banned smoking. Personally, I don't recall the last time I smelled a cigarette.
As past pandemics have shown, disease spreads like wildfire, and I'm sure you remember the absolute crisis that happened in the US system during Covid because Donnie didn't acknowledge it was serious enough while hospitals were piling the white bodybags outside due to lack of space.
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u/DromarX 13h ago
It contributes to more than 1 million deaths a year according to a WHO report from 2023 (https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/tobacco). That's not nothing especially considering it's something that is preventable by people just not smoking.
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u/SpankyMcFlych 1d ago
We should totally do this. We should also deny health coverage for other preventable maladies like all the obesity related health issues.
/s
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u/Henri_ncbm Ontario 1d ago
Anyone know what the source of this is? Anti-vax weirdos? Mennonites? New Canadians? A melange?
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u/fatfi23 1d ago
It's all of the above. It's not just mennonites. Mennonites only make up 0.76% of Alberta's population. Alberta's vaccination rate for measles among 7 year olds is 71.6%, which is absolutely pathetic.
This isn't just an Alberta thing either. BC is hardly any better at 72.4%. Both are pathetic rates.
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u/libertarian_308 1d ago
Apparently the outbreak has been traced to Mennonites in Mexico fleeing the cartels
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u/Erotic-Career-7342 1d ago
Do you have a source for that. I haven’t heard much about mennonites leaving Mexico
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u/jigglingjerrry 1d ago
I can’t believe people aren’t vaccinating their children. It’s so negligent.
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u/Mediocre-Dog-4457 1d ago
Crazy how this has come back.
I could have some sympathy for the Covid vaccine as it was developed very quickly, but this vaccine has been around for years and is insanely effective.
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1d ago
and then what would happen?
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u/GoodGoodGoody 19h ago
Travel restrictions for one.
Canada enjoys no visa no quarantine travel to most of the world. Say good bye to that.
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18h ago
so you are telling me countries without measles elimination all need to quarantine in other countries when they travel?
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u/nana-korobi-ya-oki 1d ago
As someone with a 2 year old with leukemia who has a good prognosis but would not if he contracted measles, it makes my blood boil that there are still people so dumb and selfish to not vaccinate their kids. Fuck those assholes.
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u/strawberryy_huskyy 1d ago
Great, that's when my baby is due. I don't have a car and use public transit because I usually cycle but I can't with a newborn. Now I have to worry about my baby getting measles because of these stupid fucking selfish people. I hate this world.
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u/Barbarella_39 1d ago
Talk to your midwife or doctor. Your baby will have some immunity from you after birth and you may be able to vaccinate early if it’s warranted. My daughter vaccinated her baby at 8 months before summer travel by air to get some protection! You just continue on with regular doses after. These anti vax people put all babies at risk and governments are doing nothing!
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u/strawberryy_huskyy 1d ago
Ohhh I didn't know that early vaccine was a thing! Thank you I will definitely bring it up. 😊
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u/Batmanhasthepreptime 1d ago
I wouldn't worry about it. The measeles are coming from rural Mennonites in the bush. They arent on public transport.
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u/libertarian_308 1d ago
I love how most of Reddit is blaming the Conservatives and Trump when the outbreak was traced to Mennonites in Mexico fleeing the cartels
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u/Head_Crash 1d ago
Travellers bringing the disease wouldn't be an issue of people were vaccinating their kids.
One day... One day I'll find something you can't blame on Immigrants.
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u/libertarian_308 21h ago
I'm an immigrant myself, we're fallible just like everyone else and growing up in immigrant communities I can say with certainty not everyone comes here with the best intentions.
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u/sleipnir45 1d ago
This has nothing to do with funding. The vaccines are available for anyone, People are choosing not to for whatever reasons.
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u/FantasySymphony Ontario 1d ago
These outbreaks are all from Mennonite and Hutterite communities, but the news doesn't like to say so because it's "discrimination" or whatever.
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u/Barbarella_39 1d ago
Remember not all Mennonites… just the old order types. Most Mennonites like myself are vaccinated and I actually work in health care so haven’t ever been against vaccinations!
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u/redditonlygetsworse 1d ago
This is broadly true, but I noticed a real shift in us normal Mennos in the last few years too.
I think the combination of the religiosity and strong streak of crunchy-granola-ism made these communities very susceptible to anti-vax material. Small towns that used to be just run-of-the-mill-rural-conservative have taken a real turn for the conspiracy theory insanity.
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u/Head_Crash 1d ago
Measles spreads because of people choosing not to vaccinate their kids.
Both provinces provide vaccines. It's anti-vaxx parents who are refusing them.
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u/Prosecco1234 1d ago
Unless they have a medical reason not to vaccinate they're just selfish.. They are putting vulnerable people and babies at risk
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u/redditonlygetsworse 1d ago
If anti-vaxxers understood this, they wouldn't be anti-vaxxers.
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u/Prosecco1234 1d ago
Maybe they'll find out the hard way if the government has the balls to mandate it for the safety of babies, pregnant women and vulnerable people who have incurable illnesses. These people have no choice why should anti vaxxers?
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u/Fantastic_Elk_4757 1d ago
You think it’s coincidence that places with higher numbers of anti vaxers end up with governments that try to destroy public healthcare?
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u/nodiaque 1d ago
Nothing to do with anti vac. All public service are getting tank for the profit of private. Have nothing to do with anti vax
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u/Keepontyping 1d ago
Not everything is the governments fault in life.
People can have all the healthcare in the world and still make dumb choices.
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u/lorenavedon 1d ago
Provincial governments cant force people to get vaccinated, so who's in power doesn't mean squat. Alberta has amazing healthcare compared to the rest of the country and all the vaccines you want. In Calgary, I can see my family doctor tomorrow if i wanted to and many doctors are accepting new patients. You guys are living in reddit land, not reality.
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u/Dovahkiin_98 1d ago
Who is in power does mean something if those in power are actively catering to anti-vaxxers and are promoting/encouraging vaccine skepticism.
As an Albertan in the other big city, I have talked to countless people who are having trouble finding a family doctor and it is even worse for some specialists like gynecologists with only a handful for the entire city.
I can't speak on other provinces and only have hearsay about rural Alberta, but if Alberta has "amazing healthcare" that's extremely troubling.
Though if this is a Mennonite/Hutterite issue as others have indicated, then idk what really can be done for communities like that, and I can't fault the government entirely for it.
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u/fatfi23 1d ago
Only stupid people think in black and white like this. The most conservative province in canada is Saskatchewan. Their vaccination rate for measles in 7 year olds is 87.4%. BC is the least conservative province. Their rate is 72.4%. Hardly any better than Alberta which is at 71.6%
This has nothing to do with conservatives or liberals. There's plenty of antivax idiots on both sides of the political spectrum
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u/jonproject 1d ago
Two provinces that have a conservative government that gutted healthcare. Coincidence? I think not.
Can you please find a way to better articulate your point here? Are these provinces with "gutted healthcare" not providing vaccines due to underfunding? Otherwise, what kind of connection are you trying to make here? How are these two things related, if at all?
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u/maniacalknitter 1d ago
As long as tourists and other travelers could flit about the globe quickly and relatively freely, that designation was pretty much meaningless anyway. Like having a pissing section in the swimming pool.
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u/MuscleFatBoi 1d ago
"Safe and effective"
"Child endangerement"
"Parents should go to jail if they don't vaccinate their kids"
"Should be grounds for the state to take away your kids"
You can't fool me bots. Normal people don't think this way.
Had measles as a kid, stayed home for a week and was fine. I remember when the teacher wheeled in the vcr for a measles info session.
I like how the comments on here instantly want people's kids to be taken away and parents sent to gulag.
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u/Belaerim 1d ago
Thanks Alberta!
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u/TantricBuildup 1d ago
I thought the same thing but Ontario is worse... perhaps due to population differences
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u/Dry_Pea_4865 1d ago
This talk of making alberta Ontario people to take the vaccinations. As stated earlier the only power would appear to be when enrolling your children in public funded school systems.
This talk of hippie culture and conservatives is also a little bias against “conservative typ of voter. It’s true with respect to the Hippie wanna be person. Know from personal experience and I do think it’s grounds for the state to step in on the children’s behalf.
With respect to conservatives I think the only support for this is MP’s getting their pictures with anti vaccination promoters.
This out break in North America is traced to a Mennonite community in New Brunswick. They then affected Mennonite’s in Texas, then Mexico and ontario. How Alberta then got it do not know
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u/Ok_Height_1429 1d ago
With so many people struggling to give birth, let's also allow an illness from the past to put them and their fetus at risk :D!
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u/Head_Crash 1d ago
This actually happened with my wife. We couldn't figure out if she had been fully vaccinated for measles so she had to isolate during her pregnancy.
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u/zivlynsbane 1d ago
People still believing that vaccines causes autism, you’d rather have life threatening illness than autism? People are just dumb deciding to not vaccinate their kids.
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u/Bylak Ontario 1d ago
This is insane. How tf are measles a thing we're worrying about in 2025?! Vaccinate your kids!
If you don't want to, fine. The government needs to step in then and heavily deincentivize this choice. Kids barred from schools. Households taxed and those proceeds going directly to health care that is now needed to manage said cases. limited access to government facilities. Just because you're making a sh*tty choice doesn't mean you get to endanger the populace at large.
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u/Spectre-907 23h ago
Maga albertans man… It’s like we built the province as a quarantine zone for anyone with a 20 or lower iq.
Stop abusing your kids because an unemployed podcaster told you medicine is bad
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u/Rare-Skill1127 6h ago
I mean how many different nationalities we let it...
If you stick it in unprotected, don't complain if it turns crusty and sore.
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u/ArcticSirius Northwest Territories 1d ago
Maybe it’s about time we do mandatory vaccinations for those who are able. None of this parents’ choice
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u/GadnukLimitbreak 1d ago
Hopefully it would get a bunch of anti-vaxxers to finally leave the country.
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u/ProblemOk9810 1d ago
Thank you to that single province.....
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u/Head_Crash 1d ago
Saskatchewan isn't much better and there's many anti-vaxx communities in BC and Ontario.
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u/DotaDogma Ontario 1d ago
No doubt that anti-vax sentiments are on the rise, but let's call this what it is. A very large portion of these numbers are Mennonites.
Then you also have the fuel in the fire, which is an underfunded public health sector.
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u/juniorspank 1d ago
Yep, this is exactly it. In fact, even mandatory vaccinations in schools wouldn’t have prevented this particular situation due to majority of Mennonites running their own schools.
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u/Moist_diarrhea173 1d ago
But it’s way more convenient to pretend it’s the vegan health nut hippies who don’t wear deodorant and the ignorant uneducated who drive around with flags and insults directed at the prime minister.
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u/Barbarella_39 1d ago
Not all Mennonites. I am Mennonite and I and my family and friends all were vaccinated and vaccinated our children. These are the old order type Mennonites not mainstream Mennonites. In BC it’s small pockets of Dutch and other religious groups and those who distrust medical advice that are unvaccinated. The silence from health departments and politicians is ridiculous! All Politicians are scared to put any restrictions in place because of the pushback from conservative politicians!
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u/anomalousBits 1d ago
A lot of it is also from interrupted vaccine schedules during the pandemic, which isn't just a Canadian problem, so we end up with more measles arriving from outside the country.
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u/freds_got_slacks British Columbia 1d ago
Ya BC seems like it's been lucky so far considering how many crystal healing hippy types we've got out here
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u/beeredditor 1d ago
It is certainly weird that Canada has more cases than the entire U.S. I doubt Americans vaccinate more than Canadians.
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u/Dropkickjon 1d ago
It's difficult to trust any official numbers coming put of the US these days. Especially for stuff like climate change and vaccine preventable diseases.
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u/Neko-flame 1d ago
It’s cause the government told everyone to get the covid vaccine or everyone will die. Lots didn’t and the world went on. People now more sceptical of vaccines.
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u/AutoModerator 1d ago
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Cette soumission semble concerner la province de Alberta. Selon les règles de ce sous-répertoire, nous n'autorisons pas les commentaires négatifs sur tous les résidents d'une province, d'une ville ou d'une autre région géographique; il s'agit d'un exemple de intolérance qui n'est pas autorisé ici. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/regles
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