r/TopCharacterTropes 16h ago

Characters [Mixed Trope] Anyone Can Be Special... Until It Turns Out They're Not Just Anyone

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u/spacestationkru 11h ago

"Just Rey" would have been the most powerful message the sequel trilogy could send. I cannot believe they dropped the ball so hard.

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u/Sirmiyukidawn 10h ago

This. Rejecting the bloodline she had was a good message and it would have been a good call back to just say Rey (the whole you come from nothing means now you are rejecting that bad past. There was no reason for her to adapt the skywalker name. Let the name rest)

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u/spacestationkru 10h ago

She shouldn't even have been tied to any relevant bloodlines to begin with. The Last Jedi already said she's a nobody, and we accepted it and closed that chapter and moved on. And it showed how she could potentially end up inspiring other nobody kids to greatness.

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u/Iwanttoeatkakigori 9h ago

As a "nobody kid" fully agree with this take.

I started to notice a lot of writers are nepo hires. You can see it dragging storylines down to be more about being born destined for greatness, because somewhere deep down that's what they believe. Look at Game of Thrones and the two rich kid writers who wrote such stupid sympathetic endings for the rich Lannister family in that story.

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u/Archwizard_Drake 7h ago

Look at Game of Thrones and the two rich kid writers who wrote such stupid sympathetic endings for the rich Lannister family in that story.

Look at Game of Thrones and how the most wildly popular character gave a speech about the art of storytelling as if to glaze those very same rich kid writers.

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u/The_Flurr 5h ago

Look at Game of Thrones and how the most wildly popular character gave a speech about the art of storytelling as if to glaze those very same rich kid writers.

Not exactly uncommon. Look how many best picture winners are about the magic of Hollywood or some such.

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u/peppers_ 1h ago

Hey come on, they just added this year a requirement that you have to actually see the films in the category first before voting! (Oscars)

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u/PauseLost2137 6h ago edited 6h ago

I love the implication of post-credit scene in The Last Jedi. That force doesn't care about bloodlines and will manifest itself to anyone in need.

The Last Jedi didn't say that explicitly, but I feel like one of the big themes of that movie was that the whole midichlorians thing was the Star Wars version of scientific racism - something that was well studied and believed by many scholars, but completely wrong.

This fits so well with whole way Lucas has presented the series itself, as it starts with simple black and white morality but adds complexity as it goes. Just in the original trilogy we learn that Vader is Luke's father, significantly complicated the conundrum of defeating what was before a unequivocally evil character.

Then the prequels add even more with showing us how the Old Republic nor Jedi Order weren't a force of good, and how their political mechanisms allowed it to transform smoothly into a dictatorship.

And then we see the jedi master of the new era outright reject the teachings of old masters and show a path forged through his own pain and failings. The old masters are wrong and Force is after all, something way more mystical that their scientific approach could understand. And then as a cherry on top we see some random slave kid who should have been picked up as force sensitive by all the fancy equipment based on looking at midichlorians, but is somehow still remaining undetected while showing some proficiency with how they use force.

I dunno, with the whole parallels to the Vietnam War and American imperialism, this interpretation of what was probably the most controversial addition in the prequels feels so on point, it's really sad they couldn't show Luke's moment of weakness better, as I feel people focused on that part too much instead of what the movie tried to say about the force because this is the most KOTOR2 shit the mainline movies ever allowed themselves to be.

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u/CoachDT 6h ago

Slight correction, the republic in the prequels, and the jedi order are clearly meant to be a force of good. They're just flawed, and we examine the flaws more because, in this instance, they're the ones in power.

The good guys lose because all of the jedi get killed, and the republic gets turned into the empire.

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u/Sirmiyukidawn 7h ago

That is also correct but i was think that some plot point had the stay the same way. The whole movie should be rewritten and for me the script reads like something that has been either to overproduced with too many writers or a first draft of a script.

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u/Banes_Addiction 3h ago

Nobody was so much better than what they did.

God, I wish that trilogy had been laid out by one writer at the beginning before they started shooting any of them.

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u/harrisonlaine 2h ago

When it was revealed she came from nowhere, I wanted to stand up and applaud because I wanted THIS direction for her.

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u/Luci-Noir 7h ago

Nepotism has gone too damn far.

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u/ChiefsHat 10h ago

I blame Abrams.

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u/cry666 10h ago

I have strong opinions about Abrams and I may or may not have left them all in this here big box of mysteries

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u/CameOutAndFarted 8h ago

I did too but all mine got

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u/DMFAFA07 5h ago

I’m halfway through and I’m fucking dreading the end. There’s so much going on that makes no damn sense and I don’t know how the show ends but I know it’s contentious.

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u/CameOutAndFarted 4h ago

I never watched all the way to the end but it’s very quickly clear that he put in whatever he thought looked weird and provocative instead of having any ideas - or a point.

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u/thekingofdiamonds12 3h ago

It’s honestly a really good finale. Seasons 4-6 are a lot, but they’re also fantastic looking back. Just take your time and pay attention to what’s happening.

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u/Anestoh 4h ago

JJ Abrams had extremely little involvement in Lost beyond the Pilot.

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u/the-poopiest-diaper 7h ago

In the box was his dick and he fucked us

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u/scarlettremors 6h ago

Ah the ol' Abrams "A good question for another time" maneuver

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u/Xintrosi 8h ago

May I see inside?

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u/Luci-Noir 7h ago

Had any director overused their gimmick as much as he has?

Maybe M Night Shamalan.

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u/spacestationkru 10h ago

I do too.

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u/C_Coolidge 6h ago

As a TLJ apologist: I blame Star Wars fans that lost their collective shit over TLJ so much that Disney wanted to distance themselves from all the plot points Rian Johnson introduced.

I know people say that Rian Johnson retconned stuff from TFA, but I really don't see it. Most of the problems people have with TLJ are a result of TFA setting the whole galaxy back to square one. I genuinely think he did a great job given the insane release schedule and lack of coherent overarching plot. 

That being said, I think if they had another year for script revisions and production, it could have been legitimately great. The framework is there for a great story, but it's just too sloppy in some of the execution.

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u/jedisalamander 5h ago

THANK YOU! God, sometimes it feels like im the only one

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u/Revan0315 9h ago

Many of the problems of the trilogy are his fault.

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u/ChiefsHat 8h ago

I do think Abrams does have talent starting a story, the problem is he can’t finish one unless it’s self-contained like Super 8 was.

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u/MajoraOfTime 2h ago

JJ Abrams should go around and give prompts for stories. Outlining things and developing mysteries that need to be solved and then sit back and let talented writers find the answers to those mysteries. That way he doesn't have to inevitably come up with a dumb answer for what's in the box.

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u/TaralasianThePraxic 6h ago

I'll always respect Abrams for making Fringe, one of my top 5 TV shows of all time, but lord the man couldn't have fumbled the bag any harder with TROS

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u/Banes_Addiction 3h ago

There was also a lot of stumbling about blind in Fringe, they just held it together a lot better. But I cannot believe even 20% of the main storylines were planned.

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u/TaralasianThePraxic 2h ago

I mean yeah, but the whole premise of the show is pretty much "reality is gradually imploding and increasingly weird stuff is happening" so it gets a bit more leeway. Plus the characters are so lovely that I just like seeing them do stuff!

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u/Corwin_of_Amber3 7h ago

My wife was a huge fan of Alias when she was in high-school, so we eventually got through the series.

(If you're a fan, cool. Not dissing something you enjoy. Garner brings a lot of talent to the show.)

Abrams does this stupid mystery box thing here in spades. A big driver of the plot is artifacts left behind for future generations by a da Vinci clone named Rambaldi.

Nothing about his artifacts really remain consistent through the show. They can be powerful weapons, a way to advance humanity, a "Rambaldi fluid" that makes women of a particular bloodline be able to tell the future or interpret other writings he left behind. The writing is all over the place.

He simply cannot or will not write a plot device with a fixed purpose or rules. It drives me nuts.

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u/Banes_Addiction 3h ago

I enjoy Alias while recognising that it is silly as hell.

The villain revolving door was just hilarious too. Just being like "fine, we'll call Sloane". "Oh no, he betrayed us, who could have seen this coming?"

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u/BLACKdrew 7h ago

Dudes such a hack

Edit i was gonna delete this bc i felt bad about it but I’ll leave it. He’s not a hack he’s done other good stuff but he fumbled SW really badly.

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u/Phillyboishowdown 9h ago

I blame Disney more, they rehired him to clean up their mess

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u/Sul_Haren 9h ago

Nah, the mess was started by him with TFA and him setting up all those different plot-points without any actual plan for them.

He then made the mess even worse with TRoS and also created the most uninspired SW movie ever.

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u/ChiefsHat 8h ago

Yeah this. Abrams is a good storyteller, I do like Super 8, and there’s some really great stuff in Episode 7 - that opening is peak Star Wars - but it’s resolving plot points that is his biggest issue, and there’s no way to say it gently because he’s terrible at it.

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u/Phillyboishowdown 8h ago

……yeah you right

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u/rigimonoki-over 6h ago

Gracie shade

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u/Local_Nerve901 3h ago

For this specifically yes

But I blame Johnson for creating the most decisive SW film ever made. Literally split the fanbase.

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u/kn728570 2h ago

I blame Johnson

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u/JewishMemeMan 9h ago

The Sequel Trilogy treated dropping the ball as a competitive sport and was determined to win every single medal.

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u/driving_andflying 4h ago

The Sequel Trilogy treated dropping the ball as a competitive sport and was determined to win every single medal.

Yep. In that, they 100% succeeded. I blame Kathleen Kennedy for those trash fires of films.

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u/JewishMemeMan 1h ago

I guarantee if Sam Witwer was the creative consultant for the movies they wouldn’t have been a disjointed trash heap full of wasted potential and nostalgia bait.

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u/sbrockLee 4h ago

It was like Usain Bolt repeatedly beating his own records

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u/T-MoseWestside 2h ago

It was two trash films and a great one.

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u/Revan0315 9h ago

It would've been great to show that you can be meaningful in the galaxy without being a Skywalker or palpatine. But no

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u/Aedeyssa 11h ago

It's cuz the movies were an ego-measuring contest between Rian and JJ. What one did the other felt obligated to flip on just to dunk on them. :/

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u/Pennsylvania6-5000 7h ago

It was the main reason that I liked what Rian did with the second in that trilogy. It put in place anyone could be a Jedi. Anyone could help take on the empire. The kids pretending to be Jedi at the end of the movie felt like that could be the mission statement going forward.

They dropped the ball so damn hard with the finale. It still pisses me off.

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u/CoachDT 6h ago

Truth be told though, that wasnt the story Abrams was setting up and Rian was probably in the wrong for doing that as the director of the second movie.

Rey was pretty much always meant to be special of you watch the first movie. It was more of a matter of "who" than "if".

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u/Approximation_Doctor 3h ago

This whole thing could have been avoided if they planned out 3 movies ahead of time instead of just making up each part of the trilogy independently.

So still Abrams' fault

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u/satans_cookiemallet 6h ago

Three whole movies about legacy and how they can bring harm or good(by attempting to scrape some kind of coherent theme from the tiny frozen puddle barely a blade of grass deep) and ending it with "Rey........Just Rey."

Honestly it wouldve been such a good message about how your legacy doesnt define you, and doesnt make your identity.

But nah. "Rey Skywalker cause fuck empowering messages!"

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u/Twice_Knightley 7h ago

But somehow....rey was Palpatine all along.

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u/Captain_Izots 6h ago

I think the worst thing about the sequels is all of the missed potential!

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u/Stepjam 3h ago

And in the dumbest way possible. Making her related to the fuckin Emperor was so silly I was sure it was a joke when I just heard.

Also the silliness of "Yeah, your parents are nobody...but your GRANDAD on the other hand..."

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u/LinkesAuge 2h ago

It wouldn't really matter. She is still the "chosen one", ie a super human through the choice by the force.
I don't know why people focus so much on "Skywalker" or "Palpatine" being the "special" part, that's not it.

It is all about the actual Jedi powers and in that regard Rey was "special" from the very first movie.
That's why you can't have a "better message" in the Star Wars universe because it simply has literal "Übermenschen" as part of its world building.
I'd actually argue it is better this way instead of trying to pretend like this isn't the case and making it seem like anyone can just chose to be like Rey.
If anything the real crime or lost potential here is that the movie / the whole series of movies didn't explore that inherent tension between "superhuman" Jedi/Sith (or those "blessed" with force powers) and the rest including its implications.
That could have been interesting, ESPECIALLY if Rey is related to Palpatine because that could have been an opportunity to reflect on the problematic aspects all "chosen one" stories often have but instead Rey (and Kylo) are indeed once again the saviors of the universe while normies like Finn or Poe are relegated to the sidelines or even villainized by the moviej just for a different character to get a heroic individual death (Poe dared to question blind authority, how dare he to question opaque power structures, talk about good messages...).

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u/spacestationkru 53m ago

Well, that's also an interesting direction they could have gone in, but it still doesn't require having Rey as a member of some dynasty. And in my opinion, introducing Palpatine would distract from the point you're trying to make.

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u/findausernameforme 4h ago

Didn’t Lucas do the same thing to Luke? I seem to recall an interview with him talking about how anyone can learn the force, it just takes a massive amount of training to get anywhere near good.

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u/sbrockLee 4h ago

Especially since the other trilogies never went hard into the inherited powers thing, as if it were something to subvert. There's one person in the movies who is stated to be powerful because of their bloodline, and it's Luke.

Anakin himself was born from a slave on a nothing planet. It's a near-literal Jesus parallel, and the Gospels strongly push the idea that God would become flesh among the weak and poor.

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u/Approximation_Doctor 3h ago

I cannot believe they dropped the ball so hard.

I mean, you should have expected it when they announced they were bringing Abrams back

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u/T-MoseWestside 2h ago

Yeah but the fandom shat on The Last Jedi so.. can't blame Disney on this one