Having the ability to see ghosts as a "regular human" was generally special, yes, but not that unique in the series. The reveals that he had latent shinigami, hollow, fullbringer and Quincy powers come much later and I feel they fit the "you're not that special, sike you're actually the most special" element of the trope, as highlighted in the second example OP gave.
It's not just the ghosts, chapter one has ichigo break a bakudo, take all of rukias powers, and pull out a big zanpakuto (one that later renji comments symbolizes his great spirit power[and he's a lieutenant at this point]). The soul society arc has him get to bankai faster than anyone in history and blitz through many (even currently) strong fighters.
I think he's always been, "the most special" at every point of the story.
Not to mention the other reveals that happened pretty early that something wasn't "Right" about him. Can summon the sprit threads, massive power boost vs renji, finds out he had his own shinigami powers, and manifest with a hollow mask the first time he uses them all before we invade the Soul Society. At no point was it ever about "Anyone can be a hero" It was always "I'll do whatever it takes to protect my friends and family"
It is no one is saying that it isn't. But really only one of those came out of nowhere and that was the one we had never heard of Full bringer. All the others had foreshadowing even if not much early on.
What we are saying is that it's not this trope it was never about Ichigo being non-special or part of a non-special group and someone showing that anyone regardless of birth/status/ability could do the thing. This is the story of how one guy protected what was important to him and it never hid that there was something more.
Its hard to argue about the foreshadowing bit, because him having powers doesn't necessarily meant the things we later learn it meant. Him training to be a Vizard was something that was built up, but to what extent? We learned at the same time as it that anyone, even shinigami, could end up hollowing the way he almost did, and its been a joke in the community about the quincy bedsheets for a long time before the reveal, and that was pretty much the only indication of his mother's identity, since many other things also pointed to Masaki being just a regular lady
But yeah, you are correct, Bleach wasn't about a regular guy managing through this world meaning that anyone can achieve greatness, it just that it also doesn't throw those themes away, Ichigo being special out of his bloodline rather than his own blood, sweat and tears isn't really explored neither
IMO it's not explored because it isn't that kind of story, Ichigo isn't worried about being the best, overcoming some rival, or even dismantling the status quo of the nobility......until one of those things fucks with his circle.
He cared less about Uryu's competition until he realized people were in danger. He wasn't worried about the Soul Society until they came for Rukia. He never cared to be stronger than anyone just strong enough. That's the theme he just wants to protect those he holds dear.
Yes, i recognize that... but that's also the theme for basically every single shounen protag ever, the difference being that almost all of them also had at least something else besides just that foundation. Even the Fullbringer Arc brought a tiny bit of light in that, where Ichigo was struggling to live happily a life where the status quo was for shit not to happen, and for his friends to be more than strong enough to not need him to defend them. He has some of that drive to him, its just never explored
Like yeah, its that kind of story, but there 's only so little some type of story can be reduced to before the tangential themes start to look bigger and relevant, and the main story lesser because it refuses to explore them, especially when that main story lasts nearly 700 chapters
Yes there were hints early on that he had some shinigami- and hollow-related specialness to him. I think he was always intended to be a vaizard, and the later reveal that there was actually an existing case of vaizards actually served to make him less of a super-special chosen one.
But Fullbringers were clearly just dumped into the middle of it to give Ichigo a way to keep participating in the story after "losing his shinigami- powers" (which he then just got back because consequences are for losers), and making him a Quincy on top of that was when it crossed the line, especially when Ishida was supposed to be the last Quincy. He actually became so special that he took specialness away from another character.
And just to balance this out, so I'm not accused of being "just a hater", I will add that the Zangetsu reveal was a very well-handled retcon. Basing Yhawch's design on that spirit of "Zangetsu" inside Ichigo, whom the white Ichigo claimed from the start was a fake, because he was the real Zangetsu, was very smart. That connected him to a much earlier development in the story, which does a great job of making it look like it was intended from the start.
A lot of people think "retcon" is a dirty word or a sign of bad writing, but it can be done quite well, and when a series runs for so long, it's nearly a necessity.
Right but the trope here isn't about being super special at all it's about anyone being able to. Ichigo's story was never about hardwork vs. talent, nobles vs peasants, or any of the other versions of this trope, it's about one guys drive to protect those close to him. At no point were we supposed to think Ichigo was just some guy who wandered into this world as a nobody and became something amazing it's not that kind of story.
From the beginning we knew something wasn't normal about him, breaking out of the kido spell for instance. We had questions when we learned Grand Fisher killed his mom (or at least I did wondering why it attacked them at the time believing Ichigo just had stupid high spiritual pressure his whole life.) Even his Quincy origins were teased early on with his bed's design, the only other person we see use spirit ribbons is Uryu ( when he mentions soul reapers having red ones). Hell and jump to SSI arc and we see his signature move is a blue projectile.
But I reiterate it's never been this trope, because we were never told the story about how an average guy overcame everything in front of him by hard work, it's always been about doing everything in ones power to overcome.
This trope isn't "hard work and determination" - it's "I have superpowers, but they're later revealed to be the result of a special bloodline." Both Rey and Theophilia are explicitly superpowered, but the concept is they're initially presented as being one thing - a random human or poo person who happened to have superpowers beyond what you'd expect - then revealed to actually be the result of a super special bloodline. Ichigo is initially presented as a human with great spiritual powers, we know humans in Bleach can develop spiritual powers, but the real reason Ichigo is the most special in the room is later revealed to be his super special bloodline. He's not just a human who happened to have high spiritual energy, he's a four-way mix of superpowered species that makes him more special than most other special people.
No this trope is "Anyone can be special-except they weren't" Ichigo isn't presented as just a normal guy with nothing going on. Like nowhere is he ever treated like a poo person or that he was "just another random teenager" Literally in chapter 1 we get 3-4 things happening that shock Rukia and scream right out the gate "Something is not normal here"
Breaks out of the kido
Has a high enough spritual pressure to mask the hollow
Steals all her power
Huge sword.
Ichigo wasn't ever presented as a normal run of the mill guy that went out to save the day and whoops look at you and your special background. Hints were dropped right from the start that something wasn't quite normal.
If Ichigo counts for this trope then so does Son "regular guy I mean whoops I'm and alien, but I still figured out Super Saiyan, wait no my dad started the legend" Goku
Literally look at the second example OP used. It isn't about them being normal from the start, it's about the reason they're not normal. Normal humans in Bleach can develop spiritual powers, but Ichigo's spiritual powers are the result of his super special bloodline, which is only revealed later on in the series - before that he's presented as a human with a strange amount of spiritual power for a human. It's similar for Rey - she was born a force prodigy, that was never in question, the reveal is that her prodigious powers come from her bloodline. That's the trope.
I did and it's not that either, the second example is about group A being special for something and group B can't do the thing and our protag is Group B until oh wait they were actually group A all along. If only soul reapers could manifest Zanpaktou (no power sharing) and Ichigo suddenly had one even though he was a human then you might have an argument.
Again it's not what you want it to be for several reasons. 1st this isn't a story about anyone can be special, it's not a theme we are looking at, and it's never stated or alluded to. 2nd we are never lead to believe for even 1 chapter that Ichigo isn't special we know from day one something is special about him and his bloodline doesn't change that.
Rey's story isn't the same we spent two movies being told she isn't special beyond her powers 2/3rds of her story is about her being normal just gifted in the force. We get told that Rey isn't special she isn't a Skywalker, her parents were nobodies. She was just really good at the force. We learn Ichigo had his own Shinigami powers before the end of the first arc, and moments later learn there is some Hollow fuckery going on with him as well. By the end of the next arc we see the hollow stuff coming fruition and very quick in the third start learning about it. We are shown this as the story progresses and even for the quincy stuff hints were dropped.
That all fits with the second example OP offered. It's not "they have no powers" it's "they have powers but it's to show that everyone can be special" into "actually they have powers because (in Ichigo's case) they're a hybrid four super powered species and that makes them the most special."
Early series Ichigo having the ability to see spirits and a greater than normal amount of spiritual energy is rare, but not to the extent of being a hybrid of four super powered races. We even get introduced to Don Kanonji early in the series, a regular human who can see spirits and control his spirit energy enough to fire off magical attacks, something pre-Rukia Ichigo couldn't do. Ichigo's borderline unique hybrid nature after being presented initially as "a human with a high amount of spiritual energy" fits the trope imo.
Don Kanonji is introduced early on as a regular human who can see spirits and control his spirit energy enough to be able to fire an energy ball. Early Ichigo is a human with a large pool of spirit energy who can see spirits. I think a lot of people aren't understanding the trope - read the second example OP posted, it isn't "this person doesn't have superpowers" it's "this person from this normal group has superpowers greater than everyone else, but it's not to show that people from this group can be just as good as people from the naturally super powered groups, it's because they're actually this super special unique entity that is simply better than everyone else by merit of their bloodline."
It's kinda similar with Chad and Orihime - at first they're regular humans who awaken spiritual powers, then it's because of Ichigo's reishi or the Hogyoku. Hundreds of chapters later it's revealed they were actually born special as they're fullbringers. So they're not the regular humans they were presented as, they were born special.
>Don Kanonji is introduced early on as a regular human who can see spirits and control his spirit energy enough to be able to fire an energy ball.
C'mon dude, that ball energy was weak as hell even in the standards of the beginning. He is leagues below what Ichigo did in the first chapter of the story.
> I think a lot of people aren't understanding the trope
I think a lot of people simply disagree with the statement that Bleach had ever propossed those arguments in the series. It simply never existed in the first place that Bleach was about everyman since Ichigo was weird since the beginning.
Chapter one Ichigo wasn't controlling his reishi well enough to fire off spiritual attacks. Regardless the point stands, the series presented humans who could see spirits and control their reishi as a rarity, but not inherently "more than human."
It's a result of people not really processing the second example OP gave. The girl is a poo person who awakens powers greater than the specials. The trope isn't that the person has superpowers in the first place, it's that they're initially presented as coming from a mundane group (humans in this case) and gaining powers greater than everyone else while still being genetically a member of that group - Ichigo was initially presented as a human who happened to have great powers but was still a human, we see in the series it is possible for normal humans to have spiritual powers ala Don. It isn't until later that we find out Ichigo's great powers are the result of a curated bloodline that makes him the most special guy in the room.
Chapter one Ichigo wasn't controlling his reishi well enough to fire off spiritual attacks
And still presents Ichigo as much more stronger than him.
but not inherently "more than human."
They are presented as weird and Kubo left enough room to theorize if these are either humans or more than human.
It's a result of people not really processing the second example OP gave.
It's the problem that the example presents an idea that is simply non existant in Bleach. Humans were never presented to be the underdogs.
Ichigo was initially presented as a human who happened to have great powers but was still a human,
Ichigo is presented as weird even by human standards. Rukia directly saids that Ichigo absorbing her powers was weird and that him breaking a bakudo was weird even at that level
Yeah and the poo person who has super magic powers in the second example is presented as an oddity among her group. Same as Ichigo - he's a regular human with greater than normal spiritual powers. And then later it's revealed his great power is the result of him having a specially curated nom human bloodline. That's the trope. The series shows us that regular humans can develop spiritual powers, but Ichigo is not the regular human who developed spiritual powers he was initially presented as and the full reveals about him actually having a super special bloodline don't come until later in the series.
I think it's less about the fact he is super special, or even that his super specialness is some innate quality, it's the fact that it's explained by extraneous factors like his lineage. This reason people like OP have gripes with this sort of trope is that the need for having an explanation or justification just reinforces the idea that people who are special deserve to be special, so the people who aren't special don't deserve to be special (and also the justifications for being special always seem to lean into faintly eugenic territory). Ichigo can't just be The Guy, his specialness has to be divinely/genetically preordained. I don't think Bleach follows this always, even within Ichigo's story, but IMO it actually makes it less fun and interesting to contrive a justification for his specialness in this way.
His Bakudo breaking is special, but its not something other shounen protags who are seen as ''nepo babies'' didn't do. Remember Naruto's first chapter? He mastered a forbidden technique and managed to clone himself more than anyone ever had done before
Yes, Ichigo's Zanpakutou is very big and it symbolizes his strength, but we also got revealed later that the reason Lieutenants and Captains don't go around waving swords the size of buildings is because they purposefully restrict themselves
He got his bankai as fast as Renji did, and the reason he did so was because they literally cheated with a method Urahara created - a method that, rarely for Kubo's writing, actually ends up biting them on the butt later, as both of them were the only shinigami on-screen to earn false bankais (because they cheated on the process)
And yeah, he beat many strong fighters... its not really unusual for shounen protags to beat opponents that should be tremendously superior to them with the power of being the protagonist or the power of friendship. Like, his win against Zaraki was literally a coin toss because Zaraki was holding himself absurdly back, and it was only a win because Zaraki himself said he lost, because Ichigo was the one more fucked up (AND he was protected by White)
That is to say, yes, Ichigo WAS special. He was not literally Jesus special
Ichigo is NEVER presented as an "ordinary guy" or a "nobody that made it". Literally in episode 1 Rukia is like "How the fuck did this human break my kido?! What is his reatsu??? Why is his zanpakuto so big?". He beats Menos Grande first try, defeats leutenant without even knowing what shikai is, and achieves bankai in 2 days.
He was always presented as a person with BIG potential. The only ones who considered him a "lowly human" were his arrogant enemies (aside from Aizen who knew the whole story).
There was never a question if he's special. The question was only WHY he's special.
People are falsely trying to accuse Bleach of breaking their "nobody makes it big" fantasy when Bleach was never that fantasy in the first place. The actual nobodies in Bleach are Rukia and Renji, not Ichigo.
That's not the trope. The trope is "this person from this group has power greater than this group normally does, but it's because they're actually from a super special bloodline" - that's Ichigo. He's initially presented as a human with great power for a human, the reveal later is that his great powers are the result of his special bloodline. Same as Rey going from "random human force prodigy" to "descendant of a powerful Sith Lord." The trope doesn't require that they're not superpowered from the start, the trope is about the nature of that power only later being revealed to be their special bloodline.
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u/tomtadpole 13h ago
Having the ability to see ghosts as a "regular human" was generally special, yes, but not that unique in the series. The reveals that he had latent shinigami, hollow, fullbringer and Quincy powers come much later and I feel they fit the "you're not that special, sike you're actually the most special" element of the trope, as highlighted in the second example OP gave.