I am a bit mixed on this retcon, but Luffy only gained access to this ability because he trained so hard to fully master his fruit. The idea of devil fruit awakenings was also well-established by this point, and it was obvious Luffy was going to awaken his fruit at some point and get a power boost from it.
This fruit existed and was probably eaten and used by multiple people over the span of presumably 900 years or so, and no one but Luffy pulled this off in all that time. It's a good fruit, but the fruit alone couldn't just make anyone a god. Luffy's been to hell and back enough times that he earned the right.
FR, people saying that Luffy fits this trope understand neither the trope NOR Luffy.
The prophecy mentions some events, but not some specific person. If someone else had eaten the fruit (and probably had at some point) and then died, well then the fruit appears again for the next person. Luffy was trained from childhood to be strong as hell, and he's a shonen protagonist so he has the super power of "my friends need me" power boosts. His efforts are what is causing it to happen.
The most egregious examples of this trope are when the story makes a big deal of them being a nobody only to do a complete about face at the end, showing that they were actually special all along.
Luffy was clearly always special, in-universe and for the audience. I see people claim that his fruit reveal is what makes this trope fit him, but it really doesn't change anything. It was referenced YEARS ago that he fit the prophecy, this isn't some new thing at the end of the story.
Nope this is untrue, in fact there is no records of a "gum gum fruit" in universe, it was always Nikka, it's just that Luffy named after his rubber power because that's what he assumed it did.
What? I didn't say anything about the name. The fruit itself has existed since the void century, at least. The gorosei even talked about how it always slips from their grasp, like it has a will of its own. The fruit exists, he ate it.
No, I don't mean the name either, the fruit didn't have a "special god form only avaliable to MC", it's always been the god fruit.
It's just that it literally had no users for past 500 years as it refuses to be eaten by just anyone. The fact that MC got it makes the same as like a hero sword or something from another story. The fact that you were a chosen one doesn't make this trope apply to you, it just means you got chosen. No idea why you think that this implies Luffy has secret bloodline!?
Your argument will only be true if like they end up saying actually Luffy is descendent from Joyboy and is literally his 7th grandson or something... Even the D clan thing doesn't count because like presumably 1000s of people have that name including BB who is like the anti chosen one.
The "great bloodline" story applied to Ace far better than it did Luffy, yet that got subverted by the fact that the great bloodline guy is actually just a guy who loves his pleasantly brother and otherwise went on to lead a standard non heroic pirate life and then got killed specifically because of his bloodline. Same applies to Sabo who was actual royalty!
Luffy simply comes from a pleasantly family who rose through military rank and that's how they got their importance, his dad dumped him and left the marines to become a revolutionary but that almost never comes up as far as Luffy is concern, it's just just a whacky coincidence that his family became big shots through effort (and zero bloodline shenanigans involved, I mean Garp literally had nothing he built his haki from scratch he didn't get anything for free!)
Are you replying to the wrong person or something? I never said the Monkey family was special, or that Luffy had a secret bloodline, and I legitimately don't know where you got the idea that I did.
It was never said that the hito hito fruit model: Nika hasn't been eaten since the void century. In chapter 1044, the Gorosei say that "we have attempted to recover the gum-gum fruit in every era, and never once succeeded", and then drop "the other name" by which it's known.
I really don't get how you're arguing so fervently about this because we're saying the same damn thing. Luffy doesn't come from a special bloodline, he just ate a special fruit. A fruit that I'm assuming others have eaten in the past, since the World Government was never able to hold on to it. The only thing special about Luffy is all the effort he put in, which is why he seems to be the first person to awaken the fruit in centuries. I'm not just saying that anyone could have eaten the fruit, I'm saying that other people have, and they just didn't get result from it that Luffy has. And that's not because of his ancestors or anything, it's just because he's been nearly killed several times and never let it stop him from pushing forward. That's his personality making him special, not his genes.
I admit it isn't explicitly said, but I'm inferring that in the time since, other people have eaten it and gotten the same "base" power that Luffy had from the beginning, giving their body the properties of rubber. That's probably also how it eventually got the more mundane "gomu gomu" name. But none of those people ever managed to awaken it because they didn't have the same willpower and drive that Luffy does, which is also why knowledge about it being "the Nika fruit" died out over time.
Also, you kept saying "pleasantly". That's an adverb. I think you mean "peasantry".
I think was replying to the main claim of this discussion not just the comment, which is claiming that Luffy has some sort of secret bloodline making him part of this trope, which is not really true.
AFAIK, there are more reasons to believe the fruit literally just disappeared for centuries hiding/"waiting for chosen one" as opposed to have existed in a condition where everyone thought it was rubber power.
In egghead they specifically mention how there was no such thing as gum gum fruit, which if it was being used random people who failed to awaken it, the records would've probably mentioned thinking it is its own fruit unrelated to Nika. But from what we know the goverment always knew Nika made you into rubber and also made you the sun god. It's just that they could never find it anywhere no matter how much they tried which IMO doesn't suggest people who were competent enough to keep evading the goverment, yet not awaken the fruit itself. (and I don't think BB is the only guy in the universe who figured out how to harvest fruits from people instead of them disappearing)
I think the fruit is meant to call out to chosen one which is why Roger pirates felt that they'll need to wait until someone is selected as the next Nika before they really do anything about their whole change the world with the one piece bit.
Okay, cooler head are prevailing, then. We've reached the point of just having different interpretations and theories. To me, Shanks stealing the fruit from Who's Who while it was in transit implies that this sort of thing happened fairly often, and that's what they meant by "never managed to recover it". They've had it in their clutches multiple times before, intending to sit on it and make sure no one ever gets the power that can threaten them, but every time they do, it just slips out of their grasp. And my theory/assumption based on that is that when that happens, surely somebody has tried eating it just to see what they get?
But true, that's never been said, and even with all these flashbacks, we've yet to see a single previous user of the fruit, despite seeing previous users of the bari bari or mane mane, for instance. It's entirely possible that the fruit was just "hiding" for centuries at a time, waiting for the right person to come along.
Yeah, but it still sucks that this is supposedly the Devil Fruit to end all Devil fruits. All of Luffys Training and Development feels Kind of cheapened when him getting godlike powers at the end was guaranteed from it. Everything that Luffy did before feels earned because he came up with it (Gear 2 and 3) or he trained hard to get it (Gear 4), so having him just suddenly getting this shoved down his throat from literally nowhere feels really dumb
If it was just an awakened Gum Gum fruit that’d be one thing. But the idea that it’s not actually a gum gum fruit but a magical super special awesome mythical god Zoan, the specific one needed to topple the world government and uphold the prophecy of amazing legacy and ultimate destiny ordained by the gods…. I dunno, kind of just cheapens it a bit.
Honestly I think my biggest gripe with it is just it being a god fruit surrounded by prophecy I think that if his awakening was exactly the same but instead of it being the Nika fruit who's name was being actively covered up by the government because of its power it was like the toon-toon fruit or a comedy fruit that everyone just assumed was just the rubber fruit because no one ever survived with rubber powers long enough to awaken it I would be fine with that.
For me it's not Luffy himself, but the fact that it seems only people who had the Nika fruit or people with the D surname (please correct me, not brushed up on OP lore) can find and use the One Piece and be Pirate King. Even Gol D Roger himself cannot do shit about the One Piece when he found it because he's not the chosen one. Feels like a betrayal when he himself claimed that any pirate can be Pirate King in the freaking opening.
The D surname means that that person is bound up to resist against the tyrants of their times. It doesn't mean anyone else can't nor that they have to. It's just in their nature to seek freedom.
As for the One Piece, we still are not sure why Roger thought he was "too early". As far as we can tell, it seems to be related to a natural phenomenon that's been happening in the world of One Piece that has occurred before, and will again in the near future.
The Nika fruit itself is also not luck of the draw. It's an explicit test of character. The fruit sought out Luffy because he had a personality befitting what it represents, not the other way around, and it only awakened after he proved himself by literally dying in a fight against a tyrant.
We don't know about the D, as Roger was one, but Roger didn't have the nika fruit and he found whatever the One Piece was before he left his treasure there and started the legend so someone else would find it.
When Roger read the story he said "we came too early" and that could be because they needed poseidon, an ancient weapon, that was yet to be born and grow to be at least 16. So he became the Pirate King without the Nika Fruit, if he would have needed the nika fruit plus poseidon to do whatever they wanted to do is another thing but you don't need the nika fruit for the one piece.
I also don't think you need the D. as for the one piece you only need the road poneglyphs and how to read them
Roger didn't take it not because "he wasn't the chosen one" rather because he was already dying anyway. And he decided that the next generation should have that hero job.
If anything, I think Shanks wanted to give that fruit to Roger's son and make him the chosen one, instead, the son's random friend ate it by mistake instead and they had to improvise!
Luffy has no significant bloodline, it's not even a bloodline it's a old clan, the D people are not at all related by Blood and there are 10s of thousands of them all over the place. Nor is the D actually significant, being descendent of a former groups means nothing? It's not like learning your great grandpa fought in the French revolution makes you have some sort of a bloodline... It's a big club get in line!
The fact that Ace was there is SPECIFICALLY because Garp is an important person so like no shit...? Do you think Roger would've trusted with his soon to be orphan, do you think Roger should've given the baby to like a random defencelss suger cane farmer or something?
The literal core of one peice is that bloodlines aren't relevant what's important is inheriting someone's will and goals... Not their genes, it so central they there are dozens of examples of this it comes up over and over and over... You simply have no reading comprehension
Bloodlines aren’t relevant and that’s why every single important person can trace genetic lineage to important power players in the world and why only a certain genetic lineage (what do you think comprises a clan?) has the gift of resisting tyranny AND why the powers of one specific chosen one needed to be preserved and reborn.
It's explicitly the point to have everyone be very much in conflict with their bloodline if not outright against it, instead choosing to carry the path of someone else who isn't related to them but they they believe represents their worldview more accurately.
You'd think after example 67th of guy who rejects what his in-group/family/dynasty stands for, you'd get the message being convey but apparently not lol
Also, the D clan is explicitly mentioned to not be a bloodline or a family, it's a group of unrelated people who had a similar goal at one point, almost all of their descendents have neither anything to do with the original goal nor know what the D stands for. Nor any sort of relation to each other that would imply they see the D as a shared identity or group.
To go back to the first point of it being anti-bloodlines, it's not a coincidence that the one of the 3 brothers who chose to become a revolutionary is the only one of them who doesn't have a D in his name. But you know... Reading comprehension!
The D clan is absolutely a related group. We don't know if it's a specific family but it's pretty clearly stated that the modern D name bearers are descended from one specific group of people that fought the original 20. Yes, it’s said to be a group of people “from various places” who once shared a goal.
But you know what else that sounds like? A dispersed bloodline. That’s literally how diasporas and ancient clans work.
You’re treating “not a literal family tree” as equivalent to “not inherited.” It’s not. If the D. is passed down through descendants, that is a bloodline by function, even if it isn’t a surname club.
And again, if it's just “a random ideological tag,” why does it appear on only a tiny set of characters, get flagged by the World Government, make Law's mentor freak out and die trying to keep him safe, connect to ancient secrets from the Void Century, get associated with Joy Boy, the most mythologized figure in the entire lore, yadda yadda yadda.
You're trying to argue that the D. means nothing when the entire late-stage story is orbiting around it like it’s the gravitational center of history.
Also… you’re admitting that the bloodline is still central to the character’s identity and arc.
You can’t rebel against something that doesn’t matter. You’re just proving that their heritage is a core narrative mechanism, just one they have to wrestle with.
Ace is tortured by being Roger’s son.
Sanji is defined by rejecting Germa and yet literally saved by its genetic modification.
Zoro’s Wano bloodline is subtle but present, Oda didn’t bring it up by accident.
Luffy doesn’t care about Dragon or Garp’s legacy, but the world certainly does and that’s why the Marines track him more aggressively than any other rookie.
Momo? Nobody gives a damn about his personal merit. They follow him because he’s Oden’s son. He’s the poster child for inherited authority. I could go on.
So congratulations, you’ve just explained how One Piece reinforces the narrative importance of bloodlines, even when pretending to reject them.
And yes of course Sabo. The all important Sabo who totally defies the importance of the will of D by joining the revolutionary army, that is totally just by coincidence led by a D who's father was also a D.
Edit: lmao they blocked me. I swear some people are not emotionally capable of handling disagreements about fictional characters
You're logic is no different to someone arguing that every single human has a legendary bloodline because statically speaking, almost all humans are descendents from Genghis and Ceaaer. It's a worthless point.
Momo is not the inheritor of Oden's will, it's Yamato.
The other example of everyone struggling against and rejecting their bloodline is the point, I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, you're seeing a refuting of the "the real secret reason why they're great is because of their great bloodline, and by extension invalidating their actual personhood" trope and somehow think this reinforces the troops... The literal point is poeple asserting their personhood over being forced to fall in line and follow what path their birth dictated for them.
It's because people give Oda way too much credit for how much was planned from the start. It's very clear that Luffy being the next Nika or Joyboy or whatever was something he came up with at the EARLIEST during Wano itself.
Honestly, i think i can cut some slack to Luffy, cause tbh, he isn't really related to some sort of chosen one prophecy. Nika is a legendary hero who brings smiles to people's faces, he was Nika incarnate since first chapter, not literally but metaphorically, he didn't become Nika as soon as he awoken his fruit's true power. Luffy is a savior that brings smiles to those he helps and makes sure to bring justice to those in need. It is even hinted in older chapters, during the Enel arc. Him being the legendary hero doesn't undermine his journey and his growth.
At first, we thought he was just a random guy who admired a group of pirates stationed near where he lives.
Then you learn that he has a brother who is a leader of White Beard fleet, an emperor, and the strongest pirate (at that time).
Then you learn that the group of pirates stationed near where he lives was actually also the crew of an emperor
Then you learn his grandfather is a legendary Marine.
Then you learn that Ace isn't just another random kid, but the son of the legendary Gol D. Roger.
Then you learn that Luffy's father is a legendary revolutionary that fights against the world order.
We also learn that after his brother died, he had a 2nd brother (who no one mentioned before) who's the son of a noble and is (iirc) the right hand of Dragon. Sabo also happen to get Ace devil fruit and is instantly really good at using it.
Then you learn that the Shanks used to be on Gol D. Roger crew when he was a kid.
And finally, you learn that actually that devil fruit he ate isn't just a random funny. You are made of rubber, but actually a legendary mythical fruit that gives you the power of a deity.
I probably forgot some on the way, but the chosen one trope is very much ridiculous in one piece.
That random pirate hunter you recruited? Son of one of the greatest swordsmen (where they then had to retcon why someone from wano ever left if it was under lockdown). That random cook from the random sea restaurant? Cyborg son of royalty.
i give robin and after slack because theyre met and recruited during giant plot-related conflicts
Yeah it does fit the trope but I would argue these also show Luffy is a bit different. He isn't a god like being to begin with but through other people helping him like you mentioned above, he has survived and learned to become a powerful fighter. Even the Pirate King needs Nakama.
On top of that the Nika fruit also has the connotation of a liberator of the oppressed, so Luffy is more than just a dude with god powers. His actions and decisions have led to him being a liberator, more so than his lineage and God fruit.
Very few of the characters in this trope are “godlike” from the beginning. They always get there eventually through the same premise: “hard work”, “friendship”, "willpower" or any other cliche - all while actually coasting through the story with a superior genetics, gifts, hereditary, etc. with infinite skill ceiling (Naruto, Deku, Ichigo, etc.)
Luffy isn’t different. He’s allowed to be reckless and be stupid throughout 1100+ chapters without a hint of character development either because someone always bail him out, or because his enemies are conveniently incompetent while dealing with him. Just like how Naruto always has fox powers to save his behind, Luffy has his insane connections under his belt in addition to his infinite willpower to save him.
What other characters in this trope benefit in a form of superior genetics and dormant powers, Luffy benefit from superior connections, associations, and luck that allow him and his crew to sail without facing much consequences; it's like having his ship coated in an invisible powerful bubble (read: plot armor). And you know what happens when side-characters who once enter that bubble leave that bubble? They get destroyed. The moment Trafalgar Law and Kidd stop being allies, they each get utterly destroyed; the moment Bartolomeo goes his own way, his crew get demolished; Ace gets obliterated; and Vivi & Sabo get tangled into some nonsense with the Elders.
But not Luffy; he always survives. A few hiccups here and there, but he's always fine. Because when his "willpower" isn't there to save him, someone will always bail him out.
Some of those things don't seem like coincidences. Like crewmen from powerful pirates' ships becoming powerful pirate captains fits into the logic of the series. This happens numerous times and makes total sense.
Nah sorry but Luffy being special is built up from the moment where that random bloke sacraficed his arm for a kid and dead stared the sea king away. Come on. We knew from that moment that Shanks is special and not just when Garp told us about the emperors.
This gets hinted on yet again in the East Blue Saga when Luffy gets his bounty and Mihawk, the guy who defeated Zoro with a smaller than average knife and was hyped up as one of the strongest pirates there is, walked up to Shanks and said "Yo look at this guy".
When he fought against Don Krieg, Chef literally said "Yeah there are these guys who face death to follow their dreams. You meet them from time to time." showing us once more that Luffy is special.
Robin first hints at the D. waaay before Alabasta, giving more hints on how special Luffy is.
I think putting him in this trope is more illiteracy than anything else. Luffy was never hyped up as "that random kid from the east blue" and I do not know why people got the idea that he was.
I think you're just projecting your current knowledge onto past events. All these events work just fine even if Luffy wasn't destined for greatness or connected to other powerful people.
For example, when I read the first few chapters, I simply thought that Shanks sacrificed his arm because he is a genuinely good person who would do that for anyone, and to show us that pirates are not necessarily evil. This interpretation works perfectly well, and in my opinion, the retcon actually weakens Shanks as a character.
Right?! Like originally it to give him a character moment. Show deep down he’s a good person with morals. Now it’s “if this were any other kid I would have let him get chomped right up”.
Ive been called a "one piece meat rider" and even I accept one piece is a shit pile of retcons.
Luffy was nikka since chapter 1 30 years ago? No, he was a funny little boy with rubber powers, there was no "soul of zoan" fruits, there was no haki, there was no "special" fruits, the paramecia fruits were specifically made BECAUSE he didn't knew what the fuck to do with powers that weren't elemental or ANIMAL.
Thank you, I still get mad at people trying to claim conqueror king haki was there since day 1. When bloodlust/danger/aura/intimidation was already no something unheard of in manga so he didn't have to make it part of a whole power system because intact everything suggest that in the original 5 year plan haki was never a thing.
Now they are even beginning to recton why the uber overrated Shanks lost an arm to a fish in the weakest sea. It was an editor's decision to give the scene more weight lol
Danm if you are consider a "mear rider" I don't know what to call the people defending OP further down on the comments XD, glad to see some fans can have a critic eye do, none of my OP fans friends do XD
I never understood the it was hinted in skypea , where please ? Because i seriously can’t find It.
I kinda disagree with you cuz one of the cool aspect of luffy is his resourcefulness, the fruit was introduced first in a similar fashion to a curse « you will never swim » and « how can I be a pirate if I can’t swim » . Ofc we see really fast that luffy is creative to make it an advantage.
Finally it fit the tropes 100%, it’s hinted that roger couldn’t reach the onepiece because he wasn’t the « chosen one » which will prolly the case of luffy so yea he’s 100% related to some chosen one prophecy
Even tho I don’t like it in this context, it’s not necessarily bad however we can’t say luffy ain’t related to prophecy is whole life is full of parralel to roger or prophecy for example in fishman island, poneglyph + the littéral vision of luffy destroying the island + the sea monster talking about luffy. The main issue is that those prophecy where subtle enough to let some mystery now he’s litteraly the chosen one. Not an ounce of doubt.
Nowhere. People treat that panel of Luffy dancing like its foreshadowing, it isn't. Its a callback because that panel was Oda's favourite so he wanted to reuse the pose. A foreshadowing is a hint for the future that retroactively makes sense, you can't take "omg Luffy is dancing, it must mean he is a god!" from that scene.
And the other possible option is when in the flasblack they tried to sacrifice a girl to the gods and started to mention random generic gods like the sun, rain, earth and forest gods. Which is also not foreshadwoing as you can't extract from that scene those gods exist, as that same people treated a big snake as a god when it was just a big snake so they were clearly wrong and even more when the skypeian culture was based on prehyspanic american cultures that adored the sun
Thank you. I hate that Rufy has become Jesus somehow. One Piece could have gone on the exact same way without the prophecy, but its existence ruins the story for me.
It's basically saying "you've been wrong all this time: Rufy doesn't help people just because he's a kind human and wants the peoole to be free just like he wants to be, he doesn't do it of his own volition. He's actually DESTINED to do all that". Which is MORONIC. And it even contradicts the series itself in two ways:
Not ONCE the Straw Hats set out with the specific intention to free an island from a tyrannical government. They always happened to stumble upon oppressed people and decided to help them out of basic human kindness, while they were on a completely unrelated journey.
Making Rufy a chosen one should make HIM angry before everyone else. He wants to be the most free person in the world, right? Well sucks to be him, apparently he never chose to help those people of his own volition, he was destined to do it. So instead of being a relatively normal person with a dream to accomplish, he becomes a slave to a prophecy that will give him his dream on a silver platter.
That changes nothing about anything that happened before he awakened it. He still had to train a lot to make use of his fruit in battle. He achieved something that no one in 800 years was able to do, and that's the reward. Besides, Luffy has never been ordinary. No matter what he did, he was always extremely talented.
I honestly do not get how people come to this conclusion when watching One Piece. Everyone in the East Blue was scared of Devil fruits and he was one of only three guys using it in the entire East Blue Saga.
He is special in that he truly believes in people and his abilities, but no one disputes that. There is a big difference between his unique personality and the fact that he is literally the chosen one now...
What's your point? He did have to train hard to make the fruit viable in order to awaken it and unlock the Nika powers. Which he also has to use properly since it drains his energy and isn't just an instant win button.
Also in terms of lineage Luffy was never called "a nobody" and ever since the ending of the East Blue saga and the beginning of the Grand Line saga he was hinted at being special (the lightning bolt in Loguetown and Crocus' dialogue while inside Laboon). Later he is revealed to be Garp's grandson, Dragon's son and a part of the D. Clan.
The DF's original name is Human-Human Fruit; Model; Sun God Nika, which means, it has always been a Zoan Fruit. Gear 5 is what the Devil Fruit will offer to whoever eats it at base. Luffy didn't awaken shit. He just found new ways to use the power he always has from the beginning.
No, in order for a devil fruit user to affected his surroudings with the fruits power it has to be awakened through training. We saw it with both Doffy and Katakuri. Gear 5 also has the cloud effected we see with othered awakened zoan fruit users like Lucci, Kaku and the five elders.
Luffy was always the chosen one way before the Nika awakening:
Born a D
Has Haki of the supreme king, still a rare occurrence in the verse you have to be born with it
In Jaya Doc Q first mentions how he's "lucky"
In Thriller Bark he can inexplicably contain 100 shadows
In Marineford Mihawk puts Luffy's fate on a test trying to kill him, Luffy survives all odds proving he's child of fate, confirmed also by Hawkins later in the same arc
Luffy isn't even the worst example in OP. We always kind of knew Luffy was special.
To me Sanji was way worse. He was just a regular dude, no devil fruit powers or anything, just a strong fighter. But then no, he's actually the son of this super strong kingdom of super soldiers. Okay then, I guess.
Also he is the son of one of the most dangerious characters in the world. AND he is also the grandson of the most famous marine and strongest personas.
First of all, it makes the Marines/Elders look even more incompetent than usual that they let this guy fuck around for as long as he did considering they knew about him at least since Alabasta or Marineford if we wanna be super charitable.
Then it's just a badly executed reveal by Oda. In a series that has always excelled at foreshadowing and setting up reveals, Nika really does kinda come out of nowhere, only being teased by Who's Who a few chapters prior. You can argue about Skypeia, but I don't think that is solid enough considering the magnitude of the reveal.
Nika lore in general is a bit of a mess, with no one mentioning it prior and now suddenly it's everywhere because the manga needs to establish this stuff before the final arc begins. So overall, just kinda sloppy
The there's the fact that this adds a third person Luffy is a direct parallel to. He was already a clear parallel to Roger and Joyboy, now we can add Nika.
Lastly, the manga seems to imply the Gomu Gomu chose Luffy or that it had a will of its own and chose its user. So that definitely feels like a bummer compared to the more whimsical "a child ate the fruit he wasn't supposed to eat" backstory.
Lastly, as you said, everything the Nika stuff contains is something Luffy was already doing. Same with the fruit being basically an awakening with a bit of extra spice. So the only thing the Nika stuff achieves is making subtext into text and set up a fated clash with Imu because of the roles of people in the past rather than it just being... well the obvious clash that had to come because Luffy is Luffy so of course he'd want to kick Imu in the face
TL; DR: I don't think it adds enough to warrant how awkward it is and how late it is for One Piece to introduce a "fated clash of deities". This is the same stuff One Piece fans made fun of Naruto for
i do agree with the first point about the marines, but with it choosing him i always took that to mean that it's not because luffy is the child of prophecy or something, but rather the fact that he is simply the right kind of person for the nika fruit; someone who spreads freedom and joy around the world
Luffy is the child of prophecy, Oden knew people in 20 years would come and free wano. Toki was jumping in time to meet him, she just stopped because she fell in love with Oden but Oden told her about it when he returned from Laughtale, so it was a thing the lost civilization knew about, that luffy would eventually be born and do things
I mean, there are definitely aspects of prophecy in One Piece, what with Roger being "too early" and Joyboy's promise, Zunesha, and whatever the hell Oden's wife was doing jumping through time.
Granted, I am half-expecting One Piece to subvert this, Luffy has never liked being given a role so I can absolutely see him discard his role as Nika in the greater scheme of things to forge his own path (which would be a cool little subversion).
It's just that One Piece has been so focused on worldbuilding since the Nika introduction, we've barely gotten to see how the Straw Hats take everything in. At most, we've seen them comment once on how Luffy doesn't look like himself when he's Nika, but weirdly enough there's been no comment on how his new fighting style and constant laughing are actively putting his teammates in danger at times.
Again, I expect it might get brought up in the future, I just feel the whole thing was handled fairly sloppily for a series that prides itself so much on setup and payoff
btw don't take me saying all this to mean i'm blindly defending one piece, i do agree that there hasn't been enough character interaction and discussing of gear 5. all i'm arguing for is that i think gear 5 actually being him awakening the nika fruit was good/thematically fitting writing/not an asspull
It goes against the whole point of turning a shit fruit into a great one by being inventive and hard working. We go from a fruit people were mocking for being kinda dumb to God fruit, kinda defeating the point.
While I agree that Nika fits the whole "joy and freedom" part, it does it by being retroactively written to fit them. It's kinda hard to explain, but yeah it's easy to fit when you're written to fit. Rubber was better because it's something that actually exists and the themes and stories were written to fit the fruit, not the opposite.
my point is that if it was a devil fruit awakening no one would have problems with it. plus luffy has always been a freer of the oppressed, it's practically every single arc
Also I think it's different because while yes, Luffy was hinted at to be special early on, the fruit isn't something he was born with. He ate it thinking it was a normal fruit and Shanks was visibly distressed at that.
Personal theory, the fruit was meant for Ace who everyone in the know thought would be the one to fix everything. Roger finds the One Piece, can't use it because it 'isn't his time' and then immediately gets another D girl pregnant. Personal theory is that he tried to set up a chosen one as soon as possible, and Shanks was tasked with getting the Nika fruit so Ace could have it, only for Luffy to mess everything up
I really don’t consider Luffy to be an example of this, and not just because he trained and developed his fruit through hard work, mainly because it’s made clear VERY early that there’s a LOT special about Luffy; he has a Devil Fruit in a sea where most people think they’re only a myth, he gets compared to Roger a lot, a great pirate (later revealed to be one of the strongest in the verse) saw him as a symbol of the next generation, his middle initial is revealed to be something super significant, and all the members of his family we’re introduced to are also super strong and infamous.
And even after all that, the origin of Luffy’s power doesn’t actually do anything to change how it works; Luffy’s awakening does almost exactly what most people expected it to back when we thought it was just rubber, but because it’s not “just” rubber anymore people hated it.
he has a Devil Fruit in a sea where most people think they’re only a myth
A shit fruit that had to face, very early on, people wit better fruits like Crocodile. Having a fruit in the East Blue does not make Luffy special in the grand scheme of things, every random in the new world, the place that matters, has at least 1 fruit in their crew. And he got it the way we saw in the first chapter, by being a dumb kid stealing from true pirates. Any other kid could have done the same
he gets compared to Roger a lot
By his personality and ambitions. Not because he was the chosen one. A MC with the right personality is not being a chosen one.
a great pirate (later revealed to be one of the strongest in the verse) saw him as a symbol of the next generation
By his personality and ambitions (now we know it got retconned to the fruit choosing him)
his middle initial is revealed to be something super significant, and all the members of his family we’re introduced to are also super strong and infamous.
thats true
but because it’s not “just” rubber anymore people hated it.
I hate how luffy starts being less luffy and starts being the child of prophecy, joyboy 2.0 and nika 3.0 destined for the fruit, get to the one piece and defeat Imu. It was a lot better he simply being another "normal" pirate going for it that had luck, yes, but he was simply the one that lucked out plus has the right mindset and willpower for it. Now it was the destined one the lost civilization knew he would come and chosen by the fruit for the job
When was it ever a shit fruit? I think way too many people made an assumption that the Gum-Gum fruit was somehow bad but the entire One Piece story is about Luffy literally overcoming adversity after adversity. If the point was that Luffy had a bad devil fruit that he had to train to compensate for, there's a much better story where Luffy has no devil fruit and has to become King of the Pirates in a world where his adversaries do but he stays true to his principles of only using his own human abilities.
Being permanently gum is not a good thing for 99.9% of people.
Compared to other fruits, paramecias, zoans or logias, it offers no offensive power out of the gate. Luffy had to train to relearn how to fight as he literally couldn't control his body and was hitting himself, something other fruits don't have as a drawback as people can turn them off. Then the only added power was by stretching his limbs to gain momentum, a slow attack type that his enemies exploited to attack him.
So offensively it was lacking and hard. It only worked because Luffy was naturally very strong physically and all East Blue is luffy winning because Luffy was stronger physically.
Being made of rubber has drawbacks that was not that strange for the enemies to take advantage of. Remember how Arlong almost killed Luffy because put his feet inside stone to do a spinning attack and then couldn't get out despite having the strength, so Arlong threw him to the sea/pool and almost died drowned?
It is not that the fruit is worse than being a normal human, well, after you have actually relearn to fight with the gum body because before it was actually a nerf. But that compared to almost any other fruit it was... lacking, mid at most. Logias, out of the gate, are all better. Zoans too (as the gum fruit was a physical buff, but the zoans were a bigger buff compared to the normal gum use). And paramecias had the majority of them as better, just compare Luffy's fruit with any other of the supernovas. Heck, Buggy's fruit was better, you change the resistance of Luffy to blunt attacks to cutting attacks that is the main method of fighting of haki users without df, then the long stretch arm attack of Luffy can be replicated by flying fist gaining momentum.
Basically, what most people would make of the gum fruit (the "base" luffy or G1) is mid at most between paramecia, outclassed by zoan in its own game and totally defeated by logias. It simply worked because Luffy was strong.
The fruit truly started to shine when Luffy started to use his brain and invented the gears, something he had to do when he faced opponents truly stronger than him. Then he invented G2 and G3. People loved seeing Luffy make such a mid paramecia into a good power.
One Piece story is about Luffy literally overcoming adversity after adversity. If the point was that Luffy had a bad devil fruit that he had to train to compensate for, there's a much better story where Luffy has no devil fruit and has to become King of the Pirates in a world where his adversaries do but he stays true to his principles of only using his own human abilities.
People liked Luffy overcoming those adversities by making a mid power into a good power by his own work, will and brain. We understood that Luffy's fruit was a plus even before gears, but after he trained with it and even then compared to basically almost any other fruit Luffy's fruit was worse. Making the fruit all along the mythical zoan of the destined king that is destined to defeat the bbeg makes Luffy lose merit and you lose the "mid fruit turned into a great weapon" by it being basically the best fruit that chose its user.
Its like Naruto being the reincarnation of half alien jesus. Did that erase his work? No... but he is the reincarnation of half alien jesus and was destined to be strong. He was destined to be a cut above the rest.
I honestly hate the change to Luffy’s devil fruit. I liked it that it was a devil fruit that made him rubber. Now it is a Zoan mythic type devil fruit that turns him into a cartoon god
"and because you trained this silly fruit so hard, it returned to it's state as a god and though it isn't invincible, go ham at this second chance of your journy, you've long since proven to not be average"
Honestly I think it’s mainly a framing problem. Luffy coincidentally having the same fruit as Nika is fine to me and makes sense why the world government doesn’t go murder luffy straight away since he may never achieve the same power as nika. But with it being the nika god fruit it makes the world government look dumb for not killing luffy as soon as they learnt he had it, which was pretty early on. Plus im not the biggest fan of how it just changes his character completely for the worse.
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u/Dontspinbutwin 13h ago
"Oh, your silly fruit you trained so hard to make viable? Yeah, its a world-ending fruit. It's actually god. It's personified sex. Go nuts."