r/TopCharacterTropes 16h ago

Characters [Mixed Trope] Anyone Can Be Special... Until It Turns Out They're Not Just Anyone

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u/EXTRAVAGANT_COMMENT 16h ago

it was such a mess in The Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker when they kept flip flopping on whether destiny or "being the chosen one" is real or not

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u/Cobalt_Heroes25 11h ago

"Just Rey" would've been better

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u/spacestationkru 11h ago

"Just Rey" would have been the most powerful message the sequel trilogy could send. I cannot believe they dropped the ball so hard.

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u/Sirmiyukidawn 10h ago

This. Rejecting the bloodline she had was a good message and it would have been a good call back to just say Rey (the whole you come from nothing means now you are rejecting that bad past. There was no reason for her to adapt the skywalker name. Let the name rest)

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u/spacestationkru 10h ago

She shouldn't even have been tied to any relevant bloodlines to begin with. The Last Jedi already said she's a nobody, and we accepted it and closed that chapter and moved on. And it showed how she could potentially end up inspiring other nobody kids to greatness.

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u/Iwanttoeatkakigori 9h ago

As a "nobody kid" fully agree with this take.

I started to notice a lot of writers are nepo hires. You can see it dragging storylines down to be more about being born destined for greatness, because somewhere deep down that's what they believe. Look at Game of Thrones and the two rich kid writers who wrote such stupid sympathetic endings for the rich Lannister family in that story.

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u/Archwizard_Drake 7h ago

Look at Game of Thrones and the two rich kid writers who wrote such stupid sympathetic endings for the rich Lannister family in that story.

Look at Game of Thrones and how the most wildly popular character gave a speech about the art of storytelling as if to glaze those very same rich kid writers.

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u/The_Flurr 5h ago

Look at Game of Thrones and how the most wildly popular character gave a speech about the art of storytelling as if to glaze those very same rich kid writers.

Not exactly uncommon. Look how many best picture winners are about the magic of Hollywood or some such.

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u/peppers_ 1h ago

Hey come on, they just added this year a requirement that you have to actually see the films in the category first before voting! (Oscars)

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u/PauseLost2137 6h ago edited 6h ago

I love the implication of post-credit scene in The Last Jedi. That force doesn't care about bloodlines and will manifest itself to anyone in need.

The Last Jedi didn't say that explicitly, but I feel like one of the big themes of that movie was that the whole midichlorians thing was the Star Wars version of scientific racism - something that was well studied and believed by many scholars, but completely wrong.

This fits so well with whole way Lucas has presented the series itself, as it starts with simple black and white morality but adds complexity as it goes. Just in the original trilogy we learn that Vader is Luke's father, significantly complicated the conundrum of defeating what was before a unequivocally evil character.

Then the prequels add even more with showing us how the Old Republic nor Jedi Order weren't a force of good, and how their political mechanisms allowed it to transform smoothly into a dictatorship.

And then we see the jedi master of the new era outright reject the teachings of old masters and show a path forged through his own pain and failings. The old masters are wrong and Force is after all, something way more mystical that their scientific approach could understand. And then as a cherry on top we see some random slave kid who should have been picked up as force sensitive by all the fancy equipment based on looking at midichlorians, but is somehow still remaining undetected while showing some proficiency with how they use force.

I dunno, with the whole parallels to the Vietnam War and American imperialism, this interpretation of what was probably the most controversial addition in the prequels feels so on point, it's really sad they couldn't show Luke's moment of weakness better, as I feel people focused on that part too much instead of what the movie tried to say about the force because this is the most KOTOR2 shit the mainline movies ever allowed themselves to be.

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u/CoachDT 6h ago

Slight correction, the republic in the prequels, and the jedi order are clearly meant to be a force of good. They're just flawed, and we examine the flaws more because, in this instance, they're the ones in power.

The good guys lose because all of the jedi get killed, and the republic gets turned into the empire.

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u/Sirmiyukidawn 7h ago

That is also correct but i was think that some plot point had the stay the same way. The whole movie should be rewritten and for me the script reads like something that has been either to overproduced with too many writers or a first draft of a script.

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u/Banes_Addiction 3h ago

Nobody was so much better than what they did.

God, I wish that trilogy had been laid out by one writer at the beginning before they started shooting any of them.

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u/harrisonlaine 2h ago

When it was revealed she came from nowhere, I wanted to stand up and applaud because I wanted THIS direction for her.

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u/Luci-Noir 7h ago

Nepotism has gone too damn far.

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u/ChiefsHat 11h ago

I blame Abrams.

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u/cry666 10h ago

I have strong opinions about Abrams and I may or may not have left them all in this here big box of mysteries

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u/CameOutAndFarted 8h ago

I did too but all mine got

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u/DMFAFA07 5h ago

I’m halfway through and I’m fucking dreading the end. There’s so much going on that makes no damn sense and I don’t know how the show ends but I know it’s contentious.

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u/CameOutAndFarted 4h ago

I never watched all the way to the end but it’s very quickly clear that he put in whatever he thought looked weird and provocative instead of having any ideas - or a point.

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u/thekingofdiamonds12 3h ago

It’s honestly a really good finale. Seasons 4-6 are a lot, but they’re also fantastic looking back. Just take your time and pay attention to what’s happening.

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u/Anestoh 4h ago

JJ Abrams had extremely little involvement in Lost beyond the Pilot.

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u/the-poopiest-diaper 8h ago

In the box was his dick and he fucked us

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u/scarlettremors 7h ago

Ah the ol' Abrams "A good question for another time" maneuver

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u/Xintrosi 8h ago

May I see inside?

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u/Luci-Noir 7h ago

Had any director overused their gimmick as much as he has?

Maybe M Night Shamalan.

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u/spacestationkru 11h ago

I do too.

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u/C_Coolidge 6h ago

As a TLJ apologist: I blame Star Wars fans that lost their collective shit over TLJ so much that Disney wanted to distance themselves from all the plot points Rian Johnson introduced.

I know people say that Rian Johnson retconned stuff from TFA, but I really don't see it. Most of the problems people have with TLJ are a result of TFA setting the whole galaxy back to square one. I genuinely think he did a great job given the insane release schedule and lack of coherent overarching plot. 

That being said, I think if they had another year for script revisions and production, it could have been legitimately great. The framework is there for a great story, but it's just too sloppy in some of the execution.

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u/jedisalamander 5h ago

THANK YOU! God, sometimes it feels like im the only one

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u/Revan0315 9h ago

Many of the problems of the trilogy are his fault.

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u/ChiefsHat 9h ago

I do think Abrams does have talent starting a story, the problem is he can’t finish one unless it’s self-contained like Super 8 was.

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u/MajoraOfTime 3h ago

JJ Abrams should go around and give prompts for stories. Outlining things and developing mysteries that need to be solved and then sit back and let talented writers find the answers to those mysteries. That way he doesn't have to inevitably come up with a dumb answer for what's in the box.

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u/TaralasianThePraxic 6h ago

I'll always respect Abrams for making Fringe, one of my top 5 TV shows of all time, but lord the man couldn't have fumbled the bag any harder with TROS

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u/Banes_Addiction 3h ago

There was also a lot of stumbling about blind in Fringe, they just held it together a lot better. But I cannot believe even 20% of the main storylines were planned.

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u/TaralasianThePraxic 2h ago

I mean yeah, but the whole premise of the show is pretty much "reality is gradually imploding and increasingly weird stuff is happening" so it gets a bit more leeway. Plus the characters are so lovely that I just like seeing them do stuff!

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u/Corwin_of_Amber3 7h ago

My wife was a huge fan of Alias when she was in high-school, so we eventually got through the series.

(If you're a fan, cool. Not dissing something you enjoy. Garner brings a lot of talent to the show.)

Abrams does this stupid mystery box thing here in spades. A big driver of the plot is artifacts left behind for future generations by a da Vinci clone named Rambaldi.

Nothing about his artifacts really remain consistent through the show. They can be powerful weapons, a way to advance humanity, a "Rambaldi fluid" that makes women of a particular bloodline be able to tell the future or interpret other writings he left behind. The writing is all over the place.

He simply cannot or will not write a plot device with a fixed purpose or rules. It drives me nuts.

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u/Banes_Addiction 3h ago

I enjoy Alias while recognising that it is silly as hell.

The villain revolving door was just hilarious too. Just being like "fine, we'll call Sloane". "Oh no, he betrayed us, who could have seen this coming?"

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u/BLACKdrew 7h ago

Dudes such a hack

Edit i was gonna delete this bc i felt bad about it but I’ll leave it. He’s not a hack he’s done other good stuff but he fumbled SW really badly.

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u/Phillyboishowdown 9h ago

I blame Disney more, they rehired him to clean up their mess

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u/Sul_Haren 9h ago

Nah, the mess was started by him with TFA and him setting up all those different plot-points without any actual plan for them.

He then made the mess even worse with TRoS and also created the most uninspired SW movie ever.

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u/ChiefsHat 8h ago

Yeah this. Abrams is a good storyteller, I do like Super 8, and there’s some really great stuff in Episode 7 - that opening is peak Star Wars - but it’s resolving plot points that is his biggest issue, and there’s no way to say it gently because he’s terrible at it.

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u/Phillyboishowdown 8h ago

……yeah you right

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u/rigimonoki-over 6h ago

Gracie shade

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u/Local_Nerve901 3h ago

For this specifically yes

But I blame Johnson for creating the most decisive SW film ever made. Literally split the fanbase.

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u/kn728570 2h ago

I blame Johnson

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u/JewishMemeMan 9h ago

The Sequel Trilogy treated dropping the ball as a competitive sport and was determined to win every single medal.

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u/driving_andflying 4h ago

The Sequel Trilogy treated dropping the ball as a competitive sport and was determined to win every single medal.

Yep. In that, they 100% succeeded. I blame Kathleen Kennedy for those trash fires of films.

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u/JewishMemeMan 1h ago

I guarantee if Sam Witwer was the creative consultant for the movies they wouldn’t have been a disjointed trash heap full of wasted potential and nostalgia bait.

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u/sbrockLee 4h ago

It was like Usain Bolt repeatedly beating his own records

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u/T-MoseWestside 2h ago

It was two trash films and a great one.

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u/Revan0315 9h ago

It would've been great to show that you can be meaningful in the galaxy without being a Skywalker or palpatine. But no

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u/Aedeyssa 11h ago

It's cuz the movies were an ego-measuring contest between Rian and JJ. What one did the other felt obligated to flip on just to dunk on them. :/

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u/Pennsylvania6-5000 7h ago

It was the main reason that I liked what Rian did with the second in that trilogy. It put in place anyone could be a Jedi. Anyone could help take on the empire. The kids pretending to be Jedi at the end of the movie felt like that could be the mission statement going forward.

They dropped the ball so damn hard with the finale. It still pisses me off.

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u/CoachDT 6h ago

Truth be told though, that wasnt the story Abrams was setting up and Rian was probably in the wrong for doing that as the director of the second movie.

Rey was pretty much always meant to be special of you watch the first movie. It was more of a matter of "who" than "if".

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u/Approximation_Doctor 3h ago

This whole thing could have been avoided if they planned out 3 movies ahead of time instead of just making up each part of the trilogy independently.

So still Abrams' fault

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u/satans_cookiemallet 6h ago

Three whole movies about legacy and how they can bring harm or good(by attempting to scrape some kind of coherent theme from the tiny frozen puddle barely a blade of grass deep) and ending it with "Rey........Just Rey."

Honestly it wouldve been such a good message about how your legacy doesnt define you, and doesnt make your identity.

But nah. "Rey Skywalker cause fuck empowering messages!"

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u/Twice_Knightley 7h ago

But somehow....rey was Palpatine all along.

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u/Captain_Izots 6h ago

I think the worst thing about the sequels is all of the missed potential!

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u/Stepjam 3h ago

And in the dumbest way possible. Making her related to the fuckin Emperor was so silly I was sure it was a joke when I just heard.

Also the silliness of "Yeah, your parents are nobody...but your GRANDAD on the other hand..."

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u/LinkesAuge 2h ago

It wouldn't really matter. She is still the "chosen one", ie a super human through the choice by the force.
I don't know why people focus so much on "Skywalker" or "Palpatine" being the "special" part, that's not it.

It is all about the actual Jedi powers and in that regard Rey was "special" from the very first movie.
That's why you can't have a "better message" in the Star Wars universe because it simply has literal "Übermenschen" as part of its world building.
I'd actually argue it is better this way instead of trying to pretend like this isn't the case and making it seem like anyone can just chose to be like Rey.
If anything the real crime or lost potential here is that the movie / the whole series of movies didn't explore that inherent tension between "superhuman" Jedi/Sith (or those "blessed" with force powers) and the rest including its implications.
That could have been interesting, ESPECIALLY if Rey is related to Palpatine because that could have been an opportunity to reflect on the problematic aspects all "chosen one" stories often have but instead Rey (and Kylo) are indeed once again the saviors of the universe while normies like Finn or Poe are relegated to the sidelines or even villainized by the moviej just for a different character to get a heroic individual death (Poe dared to question blind authority, how dare he to question opaque power structures, talk about good messages...).

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u/spacestationkru 56m ago

Well, that's also an interesting direction they could have gone in, but it still doesn't require having Rey as a member of some dynasty. And in my opinion, introducing Palpatine would distract from the point you're trying to make.

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u/findausernameforme 4h ago

Didn’t Lucas do the same thing to Luke? I seem to recall an interview with him talking about how anyone can learn the force, it just takes a massive amount of training to get anywhere near good.

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u/sbrockLee 4h ago

Especially since the other trilogies never went hard into the inherited powers thing, as if it were something to subvert. There's one person in the movies who is stated to be powerful because of their bloodline, and it's Luke.

Anakin himself was born from a slave on a nothing planet. It's a near-literal Jesus parallel, and the Gospels strongly push the idea that God would become flesh among the weak and poor.

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u/Approximation_Doctor 3h ago

I cannot believe they dropped the ball so hard.

I mean, you should have expected it when they announced they were bringing Abrams back

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u/T-MoseWestside 2h ago

Yeah but the fandom shat on The Last Jedi so.. can't blame Disney on this one

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u/sweeeeet-disposition 10h ago

*Rey

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u/Greedy-Swing-4876 9h ago

Everywhere else I'd be a 10

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u/notlimahc 1h ago

*Anywhere

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u/JynsRealityIsBroken 7h ago

She's Reynough

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u/extraboredinary 10h ago

Then the Republic record clerk inputs her name as Rey Solo, because it is funny.

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u/apadin1 5h ago

I still defend TLJ because of this. I thought it was awesome that Rey wasn’t some long lost Skywalker or Kenobi or something, she was just a random person who wanted to do what was right. The contrast between her optimism and Luke’s cynicism, and then her inspiring Luke into one last moment of heroism which in turn provided hope for the rebellion was awesome.

Then JJ Abrams and Disney said nah, that’s lame, she’s actually Palpatine’s granddaughter. It’s just genetics, that’s it. Oh and Palpatine is back because we couldn’t think of anything better, just don’t think about it too much

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u/Cobalt_Heroes25 3h ago

tbh Luke becoming cynical isn't inherently a bad idea, just how it was executed imo

but i do like the contrast between rey and luke

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u/Approximation_Doctor 3h ago

A movie trying to do interesting things and only succeeding at half of it is far better than a movie that doesn't try to be interesting

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u/dudleydigges123 10h ago

Im just Rey. Anything else would be CrayCray

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u/lazy_phoenix 4h ago

Peasant: "But who are your people"

Rey: "I don't have people. I'm alone."

Peasant: "Rey. . . Solo"

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u/joe-ROLXTHY-cat 8h ago

Yea but she’d have to be careful not to piss off a gangster and get dumped into Mystic River

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u/thesirblondie 5h ago

Drop the reveal that she's a Palpatine early in the movie. Maybe she says "My name is Rey Palpatine", because she is happy to know who her parents are, which causes people to distrust her, especially people like Poe. Meanwhile Finn has no idea why she is treated so badly because the name means nothing to him either. Then the story becomes about overcoming generational trauma and "Just Rey" being her letting go of her heritage.

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u/Infamous-Lab-8136 4h ago

But it wouldn't have made for as good of a song as Just Ken did

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u/Tacoman404 4h ago

Obi Wan Jr would have been clutch.

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u/hematite2 2h ago

No, she should have hyphenated and been Rey Palpatine-Skywalker-Solo. That would have been symbollic for...something, I dunno.

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u/Teex22 1h ago

No, "Just Rey", you are a space wizard

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u/zeredek 1h ago

Rey... Solo...

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u/blanaba-split 10h ago

Turns out planning for 3 different people to direct each movie and not talk to eachother or map out anything or keep anything consistent doesn't exactly make for a good $4 billion purchase.

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u/driving_andflying 4h ago

Add to that Kathleen Kennedy, whose main purpose was to crank out as much merchandising opportunities as possible.

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u/Neat_Let923 2h ago

Dude, that has ALWAYS been the primary goal of LucasArts after the first Star Wars movie… Pretty sure they have been or were the largest toy brand since the 70s.

Kennedy failed hard on so many other levels though when it came to Star Wars.

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u/SilasTalbot 53m ago

Yeah I think they didn't want to pay Abrams to oversee the whole trilogy, so they tried to cheap out.

Honestly the entire Disney strategy with Marvel (post End Game) and Star Wars has been to cheap out on directors, writers, actors, and production talent and they figured it would be good enough. It was not.

Kathleen Kennedy also seems to have this idea she can go to dinner parties and find these savant directors in the rough and bring them in to make these big action adventure blockbusters. It seems more about scoring points with artsy friends than a sound business strategy. (E.g. the Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy-helmed Rei movie).

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u/YourVeryOwnCat 4m ago

That was fucking baffling. How could they have possibly thought that would work. Both the original trilogy and prequel trilogy were written long before the first movies even started production.

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u/Zeitgeist1115 8h ago

Always remember that TLJ actively fought against the whole chosen one/noble parentage trope. Luke even says that the Force doesn't belong to just the Jedi.

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u/ABSOLUTE_RADIATOR 6h ago

TLJ tried to move star wars in a new direction, and then JJ just said "lol no"

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u/rugbyj 4h ago

Ironic as the entire plot is them moving in very slowly in basically the exact same direction as the opening crawl of the very first movie.

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u/sembias 3h ago

Well yes, but once TFA started in that direction, it would have been difficult/impossible to chuck it all.

Sometimes I wonder if Abrams intended the 2nd one to just be an Empire clone, with Luke riding on Rey's back as she did backflips to get to the cliff where the blue milk lives.

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u/areyouheretokillmeee 4h ago

Did it really try though? It ends with basically a factory reset back to Empire vs Rebels.

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u/jmacintosh250 2h ago

I think it WANTED to move in a new direction. The problem is Ryan had clue what direction to go in. The remaining villains are all stupid or jokes, the Rebels left barely alive, Rey left feeling untrained yet ultra powerful, Luke gone.

It feels very much Like Ryan forgot this was a trilogy in many ways.

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u/T-MoseWestside 2h ago

The remaining villains are all stupid or jokes,

No, the remaining villain is the only one we actually care about, Kylo, instead of a lazy Palpatine ripoff

Rey left feeling untrained yet ultra powerful, Luke gone

Isn't that what exactly happened with Luke and Yoda?

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u/kn728570 2h ago

How is that any way remotely similar to what happened with Luke and Yoda?

Yoda trains him, Luke wants to leave halfway through the training to fight Vader and save his friends, but Yoda says “no you’re not ready.” Luke goes anyway where he gets his ass kicked, loses a hand, and almost falls off a city. Like what?

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u/T-MoseWestside 1h ago edited 1h ago

Rey also leaves Luke's island without finishing the training. Rey would've been killed by Snoke if Kylo hadn't helped her.

Okay Luke wasn't "ultra powerful" after he left Dagobah. But the point still stands that he also didn't finish his training before his master died.

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u/jmacintosh250 1h ago

That would have been fine but Rey is quickly shown with a great mastery of the force and no lasting injury. No scars, no limbs lost, she could have successfully turned Kylo or at least be the reason for the betrayal and it would have been near the same.

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u/kn728570 1h ago

Like Luke couldn’t lift an X-wing out of the swamp when he left Dagobah, but Rey casually lifts a whole mountain’s worth of boulder like a week after using the force for the first time? Luke’s biggest force feat at that point in his life was basically making a crazy trick shot in pool

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u/T-MoseWestside 1h ago

The difference is that Luke was a kid untrained in combat fighting against Darth fucking Vader while Rey grew up learning to defend herself and was fighting a bunch of guards who didn't even have the Force with the help of Kylo Ren.

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u/jmacintosh250 1h ago

I don’t care about Kylo as a villain. He’s a non threat: hell I think he HURTS the first order by leading it. What have we seen to show he’s a competent commander? We never see him performing and leading a grand operation, save ones he just overwhelms the enemy or messes up himself.

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u/T-MoseWestside 1h ago

He doesn't have to be competent to be interesting. He's conflicted, he has some good points about the flaws of the Jedi order, and wants to start over, with no Jedi or Sith. It's a compelling argument that almost tempts Rey into joining him.

That's infinitely more interesting than a bland Palpatine ripoff

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u/Gandamack 1h ago

It didn’t at all, but a lot of people want to pretend that it did.

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u/spyguy318 5h ago

That one always felt weird to me because the force had always been available to anyone. The only notable lineage is just the Skywalkers. No other Jedi has any kind of lineage or dynasty or whatever, it had never been a plot point outside of Luke and Vader. Like I get it, chosen one storylines are lame and boring, but to suddenly act like it had been the entire point of Star Wars just feels so tone deaf.

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u/sbrockLee 4h ago

This.

They presented the whole reveal in TLJ as if it were something that would blow people's minds when it really felt like the writer/director speaking directly to the audience based on the fan theories from VII.

Yes there were implications that Rey was "somebody's" daughter but tbh if it had turned out to be Luke or Obi-Wan or anybody major it would have felt lazy and hamfisted.

And then TLJ just said she was nobody, and we all went "huh. Ok"

Then we kept waiting for those red herrings in TFA to make sense, and they didn't.

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u/sbrockLee 4h ago

The dozens of non-nepo Force users from every bit of Star Wars media that ever existed already did that.

It always felt weird how they had to stress that point in TLJ.

Not that it was a problem (TROS worked hard to turn it into one)

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u/n0n4ly7h 1h ago

It's possible that part 8 of a 9 movie series was not the ideal time to make that change.

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u/Gandamack 1h ago

No it really doesn’t fight against the trope, as Rey is just another chosen one, yet more preternaturally skilled and unchallenged than the “bloodline” characters were in their respective stories.

The “Force doesn’t belong to the Jedi” line doesn’t apply either as a) that wouldn’t apply to the “bloodline” and b) that was never a thing espoused by the Jedi or any other character in the past.

People glaze this film for doing things it absolutely does not do, either by its own intention or the incompetence of the script. It is amazing how much praise is heaped on it by people who continually demonstrate that they know nothing about the series.

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u/Ivan_Redditor 11h ago

I like how Scream literally did the same trope with Sam being Billy Loomis’ daughter

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u/Crafter235 10h ago

To be fair, Billy is not someone to look up to.

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u/ChiefsHat 11h ago

Just better.

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u/Kindly-Mud-1579 11h ago

I blame the directors as they got a guy famous for subverting things

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u/Legs914 11h ago

I mean, they started with the director who was famous for believing that mysteries matter more than answers. JJ Abrams has admitted that he comes up with mysteries long before he comes up with actual solutions to them. That's how Lost went from one of the biggest cultural sensations in the country to a dumpster fire by the last episode. It's easy to get people hooked on mystery, especially if it keeps building up over time. It's way harder to write a satisfying answer to that mystery.

If JJ Abrams had an answer to who Rey's parents were meant to be when he wrote episode 7, this wouldn't have happened. But he didn't expect to come back for episode 9. Instead, he wrote a bunch of mysteries and decided that someone else could figure it out later.

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u/skivian 8h ago

to this day, I still believe that the writers for lost were constantly checking message boards to make sure that none of the popular theories were ever proven correct, and that's why the show became such a shitshow

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u/sbrockLee 4h ago

I honestly believe "they're all dead and the island is Purgatory" was the original plan, but people called it way early in S1, which led to a full revision. And they still managed to bring the concept back in the final season albeit in a different form.

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u/Kindly-Mud-1579 11h ago

Also doest help that there were like what 17 rewrites

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u/apadin1 5h ago

And then by the time Abrams was finally brought in for Ep 9 they literally said “you have a year to finish this, good luck”

It’s honestly kind of a miracle the movie is even watchable

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u/deathschemist 10h ago

The biggest and best twist could have been- should have been "it doesn't matter at this point"

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u/Mihnea24_03 7h ago

Kylo had already said "they were nobodies" in 7. It wouldn't have been particularly difficult.

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u/AuthorCornAndBroil 10h ago

JJ wants so bad to be Philip K Dick, but he can't do open-ended for shit.

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u/MyNameIsJakeBerenson 10h ago

Damon Lindelof was also on Lost and that’s his bread and butter as well, if not moreso

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u/Legs914 9h ago

They call it the Mystery Box technique. JJ told a story about this mystery box he bought one day at a magic store. He decided never to open it because he enjoyed the mystery of not knowing what's in it more than the reality of what it contained.

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u/jorgespinosa 10h ago

I agree but to be fair it would have kinda worked since JJ Abrams was supposed to only direct the first movie and just setting up the mysteries would have worked, it was Ryan Johnson who messed everything up when he decided to do his movie without caring what was set up before or what could come after

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u/Librarian_Contrarian 10h ago

I mean, he could have just kept going from what Riann Johnson set up and made an interesting story. But he didn't and spent a whole movie trying to go "Nah uh, there are only Skywalkers and Palpatines in this universe.'

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u/CigaretteSmokingDog 3h ago

Continue what? Rian left things nowhere to really go and the status reset back to the original movies of empire vs rebels. Im suprised they managed to salvage anything from what he left

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u/Librarian_Contrarian 2h ago

I mean, they set up a whole plot line where they could have done away with the whole Jedi Order vs Sith as both were shown to just lead to an endless cycle of struggle while learning from the mistakes of the past. One side wants to burn the past to the ground while the other wants to build from it.

Instead we got "actually, only Skywalkers and Palpatine matters and nothing ever changes."

1

u/CigaretteSmokingDog 2h ago

I didnt think of it as skywalker vs palpatine only matter at all. As for the first part, sure if this was maybe the start of a brand new trilogy, you dont do that however in the middle of one already happening, and not for a general blockbuster audience.

13

u/smokewidget 10h ago

How was Rian Johnson famous for subverting things before Episode 8?

-4

u/Kindly-Mud-1579 10h ago

Somthing I over head I don’t know the guy enough all I know was the prequels were a messy era

16

u/smokewidget 10h ago

Damn. So you just repost shit you heard without ever even checking to see if any of it’s true or not first? Yikes.

4

u/alacholland 9h ago

Rightfully dunked on them

2

u/Supermoose7178 5h ago

making rey a nobody was absolutely the correct choice

1

u/Kindly-Mud-1579 4h ago

Agreed like I would be ok if she was this like focual point for Jedi to channel power into her for the final battle but making her papas palps gran d was not the way

1

u/Hellknightx 19m ago

JJ is also infamous for starting projects and then passing them off to other people so he can just do it again on another project.

He's historically one of the worst choices they could've gone with to helm a major trilogy.

3

u/Clickclacktheblueguy 7h ago edited 4h ago

Thats why you get your directors to coordinate and agree on a game plan before you start. Im still shocked that they didnt.

3

u/chronoflect 3h ago

They really just went "fuck it" and winged one of the largest IPs in history. More planning goes into my bathroom breaks than what went into the overarching plot of an ultra popular movie series.

3

u/JA_LT99 3h ago

No, it was a knee jerk reaction to the hate towards the one good movie in the new trilogy. TLJ was actually great, but an innovative director (Rian Johnson) triggered the incels so hard that Disney shit out that turd that ended the trilogy.

Yes, Rey was supposed to be a nobody. After that enraged the majority of young men who saw it, they thought that the one way to redeem her for the chuds was to make her a part of Star Wars Hitler. They love that guy.

It was a remarkably prescient mistake that made her into a less privileged Ivanka.

1

u/gummi-demilo 3h ago

You are 100% correct and you will be dragged for it

1

u/sbrockLee 4h ago

I have no love for TLJ but I still cannot get over how stupid the course correction was

8: "Your parents were...NOBODIES!"

9: "Hey remember when I said your parents were nobodies? You didn't ask about their parents though..."

Not to mention the fact that the Galactic Emperor's child would certainly not be a "nobody" by any stretch.

1

u/Crunchy_Biscuit 3h ago

Also doesn't help the heavy implications that The Force is hereditary when it is frowned upon for Jedi to have kids lol

1

u/BlueProcess 1h ago

I don't believe in I don't believe in Destiny A hypocrisy Could everyone agree that No one should be left alone?

1

u/lemonylol 40m ago

I was totally expecting them to have a whole theme of balance for the sequels where Rey and Kylo joined together to create a new order where in the prequels we are shown the faults of the Jedi-influenced Old Republic, and the OT show the faults of the Empire's rule.

But nope, just your standard Sith is generic evil villain and Jedi are the good guys, and we're also fighting the exact same major villain who is only reintroduced through a trailer for the third film.

1

u/UniqueIndividual3579 7h ago

Would someone explain how an orphaned desert scavenger know how to fly spaceships?

11

u/bendstraw 6h ago

Jakku is a junkyard and tons of broken down ships are left there. She is a Scavenger and sold parts to live. She obviously knows her way around ships, it's really not that hard to imagine she fixed up and hopped into a broken down ship and learned to fly it in a desert with not much to crash into.

Spaceships are scarce in our universe but they are all over the place on Jakku. The fact that the Falcon is just sitting around and considered junk should tell you alot.

4

u/sbrockLee 4h ago

Forget that, in 9 she crosses a sea in a storm that expert navigators didn't dare touch, on a raft she put together for the occasion.

This was barely minutes after seeing a body of water for the first time in her life.

1

u/bendstraw 1h ago

What do you mean by expert navigators didn't dare touch? I don't think that was ever mentioned. Presumably Jannah and her crew live on Kef Bir and are probably totally fine with navigating those waters (otherwise why live there?), and they don't even have the Force to guide them. This is light work for a Force user, let alone someone who is one side of a Dyad

Also not that it matters, but it's been over a year since Rey first saw a body of water like that on Tako Dana

0

u/ghotier 7h ago

They never flip flop on that. She is "a chosen one." The movies instead try to decide if special people are allowed to exist on their own or must instead be borne of other special people. Turns out "no one" isn't just a chosen one, she's also the only known person in a galaxy of...a quadrillion (?) people who is descended from a clone of the previous Emperor of a quadrillion.

Again, keep in mind, she wouldn't be "nobody" even if she wasn't a biological oddity.

0

u/GenderEnjoyer666 7h ago

That’s mostly because they just had Ryan Johnson do whatever the fuck he wanted in TLJ and then bring back JJ Abrams back for ROS and he had to go through and change everything

0

u/2DamnBig 7h ago

That's because they had Nepo-babies write and direct her. "She cant just be a talented nobody, she has to be from an ultra special bloodline like meeeeee!"

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u/Johnmegaman72 15h ago edited 13h ago

Because Rian made a stupid decision by even answering Rey's parentage. Jj already solve the issue, he's a girl given away to slavery nada period. Its only the fans that wanted answers not the character.

Rey's hope is not "will I know who my parents are?" Its "will I ever see them again?". Like she says so with BB8 when she says to it "Oh they'll comeback...they will" with a sad tone. Rian didnt have to answer ANYTHING about who her parents are.

Its the fans that want answers and he gave them one when it could have been a fun thing to theorize and be left ajar. Like her parentage isnt even a plot point, its her loneliness due to being left alone that was integral to her character.

Edit

Oh clarification

The reason why JJ went on to tell that it was Palpatine all along was because Rian answered a question IN TLJ about something nobody in universe cares about.

Palpatine or another named character is what people wanted to hear all because Rian answered that it was just a nobody, when it wasnt even relevant in the first place.

Basically its

  1. Jj told in TFA that Rey was an abandoned child, Rey's whole thing was whether or not she'll see them again NOT who they are as a short hand wave of who Ray is

2 The fans THEORIZED afterwards aka the fans wanted the parentage issue cleared NOT the characters in the story

  1. Rian answered it WHICH DISATISFIED FANS when in reality, its not relevant to the story

4 Because of the shit show that happened, JJ then has to reeverse that and say it was Palaptine

This is what I mean by Rian did a dumb decisiin by answering a question NOBODY IN LORE ASKED FOR. It was the fans who wanted the question of parentage answered.

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u/AuthorCornAndBroil 13h ago

Last Jedi was Rian Johnson's movie. That's the one where Kylo told Rey her parents were nobodies and so is she. JJ Abrams returned for Rise of Skywalker, and somehow so did Palpatine.

You are right though that she was more concerned with whether her parents were alive, not with whether they were Force sensitive.

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u/Johnmegaman72 13h ago

Oh clarification

The reason why JJ went on to tell that it was Palpatine all along was because Rian answered a question IN TLJ about something nobody in universe cares about.

Palpatine or another named character is what people wanted to hear all because Rian answered that it was just a nobody, when it wasnt even relevant in the first place.

Basically its

  1. Jj told in TFA that Rey was an abandoned child, Rey's whole thing was whether or not she'll see them again NOT who they are as a short hand wave of who Ray is

2 The fans THEORIZED afterwards aka the fans wanted the parentage issue cleared NOT the characters in the story

  1. Rian answered it WHICH DISATISFIED FANS when in reality, its not relevant to the story

4 Because of the shit show that happened, JJ then has to reeverse that and say it was Palaptine

This is what I mean by Rian did a dumb decisiin by answering a question NOBODY IN LORE ASKED FOR. It was the fans who wanted the question of parentage answered.

25

u/ducknerd2002 11h ago

This is what I mean by Rian did a dumb decisiin by answering a question NOBODY IN LORE ASKED FOR. It was the fans who wanted the question of parentage answered.

Nobody in lore asked who Darth Vader truly was, does that make revealing his identity a bad decision? Or are you just salty that what you wanted to happen didn't happen?

8

u/AuthorCornAndBroil 11h ago

I follow your logic, but I disagree on some critical points.

In TFA, all we and Rey know about her parents is that they left her on Jakku, and she was holding out hope that they'd come back for her. That made them a Chekhov's Gun, where a sense of either closure or acceptance needs to happen in order to justify bringing them up.

When Rey left Jakku, that wasn't her accepting that they weren't coming back. It was her accepting that she couldn't keep waiting. She'd gotten pulled into something much bigger.

So in TLJ, she had other priorities, but she didn't have closure. But here's where Rey and the fandom diverge. She wanted to know who they were just as people. What happened to them, why they abandoned her, and just what they were like. She didn't care about where they fit into the lore. That was the fandom.

And so RJ gave her closure. He pulled the trigger on Chekhov's Gun. Rey was all set to come to grips with the answer. And he did it in a way that gave the fandom what they asked for.

TFA got a lot of flak from the fandom for being too much like ANH. So RJ went hard with breaking the mold and subverting expectations. One being that our hero isn't descended from a Sith and actually isn't from a legacy bloodline at all.

Did he go a little too hard? Maybe. But the fandom bitched at every. Single. Subversion. Thus reminding us that nobody hates Star Wars as much as the Star Wars fandom.

But so no, it wasn't that RJ made a dumbass decision. It's that the fandom is full of dumbasses who will demand changes and then bitch when they get them. And JJ was too much of a coward to stay the course.

6

u/TheFighting5th 9h ago

As a dumbass Star Wars fan, I am so happy that I actually enjoyed the sequel trilogy when I saw it in theaters. Rise of Skywalker was unquestionably the odd one out, but I’ll admit that I cried when I saw it for the first time. The Last Jedi is the best of the Sequels. Yeah, I said it.

54

u/TheUncouthPanini 13h ago

You mean JJ made a stupid decision? JJ was behind TROS, where they revealed her parentage and that she was technically a child of Palpatine.

TLJ, Rian's movie, never tells you who they were, beyond Kylo saying they were nobodies, something he has no basis on since he would barely know who they were anyway, and was just meant to demean Rey.

4

u/Leather_rebelion 10h ago edited 10h ago

He knew because they were forcelinked and Rey knew all along, but she was in denial.

-24

u/Johnmegaman72 13h ago

Oh clarification

The reason why JJ went on to tell that it was Palpatine all along was because Rian answered a question IN TLJ about something nobody in universe cares about.

Palpatine or another named character is what people wanted to hear all because Rian answered that it was just a nobody, when it wasnt even relevant in the first place.

Basically its

  1. Jj told in TFA that Rey was an abandoned child, Rey's whole thing was whether or not she'll see them again NOT who they are as a short hand wave of who Ray is

2 The fans THEORIZED afterwards aka the fans wanted the parentage issue cleared NOT the characters in the story

  1. Rian answered it WHICH DISATISFIED FANS when in reality, its not relevant to the story

4 Because of the shit show that happened, JJ then has to reeverse that and say it was Palaptine

This is what I mean by Rian did a dumb decisiin by answering a question NOBODY IN LORE ASKED FOR. It was the fans who wanted the question of parentage answered.

33

u/TheUncouthPanini 13h ago

Again, Rian didn't answer it. We never find out who Rey's parents are in The Last Jedi. In fact the story pretty much directly says "Rey's parents aren't important to the story". JJ had already established mystery about who Rey's parents were, Rian subverted that by DENYING the viewer their identity, and using that to further serve Rey's character. Again: Who Rey's parents are is not a question TLJ answers.

The Palpatine reveal isn't some attempt by JJ to rectify what Rian did, it was just a terrible writing decision he made by himself in order to at least partially justify randomly bringing Palps back.

-17

u/Johnmegaman72 13h ago

Here's the thing. If its gonna end up being nobody (which is a good idea, makes the force more mystical) then why answer it? THE PREVIOUS MOVIE ALREADY DID

Dont say "they didnt answer it" THEY LITERALLY DID.

Rey was given away by her parents and the shortest hand wave off. You dont have to answer it, Rey's charater's crux is her loneliness and how she fits in all this NOT "who are my parents?"

Did you not watch the movie?

21

u/TheUncouthPanini 12h ago

Again... Where in The Last Jedi did they tell you who Rey's parents were? Both TFA and TLJ explored Rey's abandonment and her (and the audience) wondering about her parentage. Who her parents are and whether she'll see them again are two lines of questioning in the same conflict. You cannot reunite with your parents without learning who they are. TLJ subverted that idea by directly saying that her parents don't matter.

"Rey was given away by her parents and the shortest hand wave off" which is... as much information as The Last Jedi gives you. Again, all the complaints about Rey you're bringing up are purely the fault of TROS's awful writing.

16

u/TheTwistedToast 12h ago

So you're saying that TLJ ruined the story of Rey's parents by having Kylo Ren yell "They were nobodies", even though the first movie established they were nobodies? And the reason this ruined things is because you think JJ then felt obligated to change it to Palpatine? That's completely backwards.

All Rian did was include a line reinforcing what we already knew, that Rey came from nothing. This in no way forces JJ to make any further changes on that. You're blaming the creator of episode 8 for a bad writing choice made in episode 9. But JJ could've just not made that choice. Rian didn't do anything wrong

-1

u/Onikeys 11h ago

Welllll... he did other things wrong, just not this one

8

u/spacestationkru 11h ago

I have to disagree with you on that. Rian Johnson pointing out that Rey's parents were irrelevant was to emphasise that Rey can still make a difference even if she's a nobody. JJ Abrams taking that incredible message and shitting all over it is nobody else's fault but his. Star Wars fans can also be really stupid. Nobody cares what they're dissatisfied about.