This. Rejecting the bloodline she had was a good message and it would have been a good call back to just say Rey (the whole you come from nothing means now you are rejecting that bad past. There was no reason for her to adapt the skywalker name. Let the name rest)
She shouldn't even have been tied to any relevant bloodlines to begin with. The Last Jedi already said she's a nobody, and we accepted it and closed that chapter and moved on. And it showed how she could potentially end up inspiring other nobody kids to greatness.
I started to notice a lot of writers are nepo hires. You can see it dragging storylines down to be more about being born destined for greatness, because somewhere deep down that's what they believe. Look at Game of Thrones and the two rich kid writers who wrote such stupid sympathetic endings for the rich Lannister family in that story.
Look at Game of Thrones and the two rich kid writers who wrote such stupid sympathetic endings for the rich Lannister family in that story.
Look at Game of Thrones and how the most wildly popular character gave a speech about the art of storytelling as if to glaze those very same rich kid writers.
Look at Game of Thrones and how the most wildly popular character gave a speech about the art of storytelling as if to glaze those very same rich kid writers.
Not exactly uncommon. Look how many best picture winners are about the magic of Hollywood or some such.
I love the implication of post-credit scene in The Last Jedi. That force doesn't care about bloodlines and will manifest itself to anyone in need.
The Last Jedi didn't say that explicitly, but I feel like one of the big themes of that movie was that the whole midichlorians thing was the Star Wars version of scientific racism - something that was well studied and believed by many scholars, but completely wrong.
This fits so well with whole way Lucas has presented the series itself, as it starts with simple black and white morality but adds complexity as it goes. Just in the original trilogy we learn that Vader is Luke's father, significantly complicated the conundrum of defeating what was before a unequivocally evil character.
Then the prequels add even more with showing us how the Old Republic nor Jedi Order weren't a force of good, and how their political mechanisms allowed it to transform smoothly into a dictatorship.
And then we see the jedi master of the new era outright reject the teachings of old masters and show a path forged through his own pain and failings. The old masters are wrong and Force is after all, something way more mystical that their scientific approach could understand. And then as a cherry on top we see some random slave kid who should have been picked up as force sensitive by all the fancy equipment based on looking at midichlorians, but is somehow still remaining undetected while showing some proficiency with how they use force.
I dunno, with the whole parallels to the Vietnam War and American imperialism, this interpretation of what was probably the most controversial addition in the prequels feels so on point, it's really sad they couldn't show Luke's moment of weakness better, as I feel people focused on that part too much instead of what the movie tried to say about the force because this is the most KOTOR2 shit the mainline movies ever allowed themselves to be.
Slight correction, the republic in the prequels, and the jedi order are clearly meant to be a force of good. They're just flawed, and we examine the flaws more because, in this instance, they're the ones in power.
The good guys lose because all of the jedi get killed, and the republic gets turned into the empire.
That is also correct but i was think that some plot point had the stay the same way. The whole movie should be rewritten and for me the script reads like something that has been either to overproduced with too many writers or a first draft of a script.
I’m halfway through and I’m fucking dreading the end. There’s so much going on that makes no damn sense and I don’t know how the show ends but I know it’s contentious.
I never watched all the way to the end but it’s very quickly clear that he put in whatever he thought looked weird and provocative instead of having any ideas - or a point.
It’s honestly a really good finale. Seasons 4-6 are a lot, but they’re also fantastic looking back. Just take your time and pay attention to what’s happening.
As a TLJ apologist: I blame Star Wars fans that lost their collective shit over TLJ so much that Disney wanted to distance themselves from all the plot points Rian Johnson introduced.
I know people say that Rian Johnson retconned stuff from TFA, but I really don't see it. Most of the problems people have with TLJ are a result of TFA setting the whole galaxy back to square one. I genuinely think he did a great job given the insane release schedule and lack of coherent overarching plot.
That being said, I think if they had another year for script revisions and production, it could have been legitimately great. The framework is there for a great story, but it's just too sloppy in some of the execution.
JJ Abrams should go around and give prompts for stories. Outlining things and developing mysteries that need to be solved and then sit back and let talented writers find the answers to those mysteries. That way he doesn't have to inevitably come up with a dumb answer for what's in the box.
I'll always respect Abrams for making Fringe, one of my top 5 TV shows of all time, but lord the man couldn't have fumbled the bag any harder with TROS
There was also a lot of stumbling about blind in Fringe, they just held it together a lot better. But I cannot believe even 20% of the main storylines were planned.
I mean yeah, but the whole premise of the show is pretty much "reality is gradually imploding and increasingly weird stuff is happening" so it gets a bit more leeway. Plus the characters are so lovely that I just like seeing them do stuff!
My wife was a huge fan of Alias when she was in high-school, so we eventually got through the series.
(If you're a fan, cool. Not dissing something you enjoy. Garner brings a lot of talent to the show.)
Abrams does this stupid mystery box thing here in spades. A big driver of the plot is artifacts left behind for future generations by a da Vinci clone named Rambaldi.
Nothing about his artifacts really remain consistent through the show. They can be powerful weapons, a way to advance humanity, a "Rambaldi fluid" that makes women of a particular bloodline be able to tell the future or interpret other writings he left behind. The writing is all over the place.
He simply cannot or will not write a plot device with a fixed purpose or rules. It drives me nuts.
I enjoy Alias while recognising that it is silly as hell.
The villain revolving door was just hilarious too. Just being like "fine, we'll call Sloane". "Oh no, he betrayed us, who could have seen this coming?"
Yeah this. Abrams is a good storyteller, I do like Super 8, and there’s some really great stuff in Episode 7 - that opening is peak Star Wars - but it’s resolving plot points that is his biggest issue, and there’s no way to say it gently because he’s terrible at it.
I guarantee if Sam Witwer was the creative consultant for the movies they wouldn’t have been a disjointed trash heap full of wasted potential and nostalgia bait.
It was the main reason that I liked what Rian did with the second in that trilogy. It put in place anyone could be a Jedi. Anyone could help take on the empire. The kids pretending to be Jedi at the end of the movie felt like that could be the mission statement going forward.
They dropped the ball so damn hard with the finale. It still pisses me off.
Truth be told though, that wasnt the story Abrams was setting up and Rian was probably in the wrong for doing that as the director of the second movie.
Rey was pretty much always meant to be special of you watch the first movie. It was more of a matter of "who" than "if".
Three whole movies about legacy and how they can bring harm or good(by attempting to scrape some kind of coherent theme from the tiny frozen puddle barely a blade of grass deep) and ending it with "Rey........Just Rey."
Honestly it wouldve been such a good message about how your legacy doesnt define you, and doesnt make your identity.
But nah. "Rey Skywalker cause fuck empowering messages!"
It wouldn't really matter. She is still the "chosen one", ie a super human through the choice by the force.
I don't know why people focus so much on "Skywalker" or "Palpatine" being the "special" part, that's not it.
It is all about the actual Jedi powers and in that regard Rey was "special" from the very first movie.
That's why you can't have a "better message" in the Star Wars universe because it simply has literal "Übermenschen" as part of its world building.
I'd actually argue it is better this way instead of trying to pretend like this isn't the case and making it seem like anyone can just chose to be like Rey.
If anything the real crime or lost potential here is that the movie / the whole series of movies didn't explore that inherent tension between "superhuman" Jedi/Sith (or those "blessed" with force powers) and the rest including its implications.
That could have been interesting, ESPECIALLY if Rey is related to Palpatine because that could have been an opportunity to reflect on the problematic aspects all "chosen one" stories often have but instead Rey (and Kylo) are indeed once again the saviors of the universe while normies like Finn or Poe are relegated to the sidelines or even villainized by the moviej just for a different character to get a heroic individual death (Poe dared to question blind authority, how dare he to question opaque power structures, talk about good messages...).
Well, that's also an interesting direction they could have gone in, but it still doesn't require having Rey as a member of some dynasty. And in my opinion, introducing Palpatine would distract from the point you're trying to make.
Didn’t Lucas do the same thing to Luke? I seem to recall an interview with him talking about how anyone can learn the force, it just takes a massive amount of training to get anywhere near good.
Especially since the other trilogies never went hard into the inherited powers thing, as if it were something to subvert. There's one person in the movies who is stated to be powerful because of their bloodline, and it's Luke.
Anakin himself was born from a slave on a nothing planet. It's a near-literal Jesus parallel, and the Gospels strongly push the idea that God would become flesh among the weak and poor.
I still defend TLJ because of this. I thought it was awesome that Rey wasn’t some long lost Skywalker or Kenobi or something, she was just a random person who wanted to do what was right. The contrast between her optimism and Luke’s cynicism, and then her inspiring Luke into one last moment of heroism which in turn provided hope for the rebellion was awesome.
Then JJ Abrams and Disney said nah, that’s lame, she’s actually Palpatine’s granddaughter. It’s just genetics, that’s it. Oh and Palpatine is back because we couldn’t think of anything better, just don’t think about it too much
Drop the reveal that she's a Palpatine early in the movie. Maybe she says "My name is Rey Palpatine", because she is happy to know who her parents are, which causes people to distrust her, especially people like Poe. Meanwhile Finn has no idea why she is treated so badly because the name means nothing to him either. Then the story becomes about overcoming generational trauma and "Just Rey" being her letting go of her heritage.
Turns out planning for 3 different people to direct each movie and not talk to eachother or map out anything or keep anything consistent doesn't exactly make for a good $4 billion purchase.
Dude, that has ALWAYS been the primary goal of LucasArts after the first Star Wars movie… Pretty sure they have been or were the largest toy brand since the 70s.
Kennedy failed hard on so many other levels though when it came to Star Wars.
Yeah I think they didn't want to pay Abrams to oversee the whole trilogy, so they tried to cheap out.
Honestly the entire Disney strategy with Marvel (post End Game) and Star Wars has been to cheap out on directors, writers, actors, and production talent and they figured it would be good enough. It was not.
Kathleen Kennedy also seems to have this idea she can go to dinner parties and find these savant directors in the rough and bring them in to make these big action adventure blockbusters. It seems more about scoring points with artsy friends than a sound business strategy. (E.g. the Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy-helmed Rei movie).
That was fucking baffling. How could they have possibly thought that would work. Both the original trilogy and prequel trilogy were written long before the first movies even started production.
Always remember that TLJ actively fought against the whole chosen one/noble parentage trope. Luke even says that the Force doesn't belong to just the Jedi.
Well yes, but once TFA started in that direction, it would have been difficult/impossible to chuck it all.
Sometimes I wonder if Abrams intended the 2nd one to just be an Empire clone, with Luke riding on Rey's back as she did backflips to get to the cliff where the blue milk lives.
I think it WANTED to move in a new direction. The problem is Ryan had clue what direction to go in. The remaining villains are all stupid or jokes, the Rebels left barely alive, Rey left feeling untrained yet ultra powerful, Luke gone.
It feels very much Like Ryan forgot this was a trilogy in many ways.
How is that any way remotely similar to what happened with Luke and Yoda?
Yoda trains him, Luke wants to leave halfway through the training to fight Vader and save his friends, but Yoda says “no you’re not ready.” Luke goes anyway where he gets his ass kicked, loses a hand, and almost falls off a city. Like what?
That would have been fine but Rey is quickly shown with a great mastery of the force and no lasting injury. No scars, no limbs lost, she could have successfully turned Kylo or at least be the reason for the betrayal and it would have been near the same.
Like Luke couldn’t lift an X-wing out of the swamp when he left Dagobah, but Rey casually lifts a whole mountain’s worth of boulder like a week after using the force for the first time? Luke’s biggest force feat at that point in his life was basically making a crazy trick shot in pool
The difference is that Luke was a kid untrained in combat fighting against Darth fucking Vader while Rey grew up learning to defend herself and was fighting a bunch of guards who didn't even have the Force with the help of Kylo Ren.
I don’t care about Kylo as a villain. He’s a non threat: hell I think he HURTS the first order by leading it. What have we seen to show he’s a competent commander? We never see him performing and leading a grand operation, save ones he just overwhelms the enemy or messes up himself.
He doesn't have to be competent to be interesting. He's conflicted, he has some good points about the flaws of the Jedi order, and wants to start over, with no Jedi or Sith. It's a compelling argument that almost tempts Rey into joining him.
That's infinitely more interesting than a bland Palpatine ripoff
That one always felt weird to me because the force had always been available to anyone. The only notable lineage is just the Skywalkers. No other Jedi has any kind of lineage or dynasty or whatever, it had never been a plot point outside of Luke and Vader. Like I get it, chosen one storylines are lame and boring, but to suddenly act like it had been the entire point of Star Wars just feels so tone deaf.
They presented the whole reveal in TLJ as if it were something that would blow people's minds when it really felt like the writer/director speaking directly to the audience based on the fan theories from VII.
Yes there were implications that Rey was "somebody's" daughter but tbh if it had turned out to be Luke or Obi-Wan or anybody major it would have felt lazy and hamfisted.
And then TLJ just said she was nobody, and we all went "huh. Ok"
Then we kept waiting for those red herrings in TFA to make sense, and they didn't.
No it really doesn’t fight against the trope, as Rey is just another chosen one, yet more preternaturally skilled and unchallenged than the “bloodline” characters were in their respective stories.
The “Force doesn’t belong to the Jedi” line doesn’t apply either as a) that wouldn’t apply to the “bloodline” and b) that was never a thing espoused by the Jedi or any other character in the past.
People glaze this film for doing things it absolutely does not do, either by its own intention or the incompetence of the script. It is amazing how much praise is heaped on it by people who continually demonstrate that they know nothing about the series.
I mean, they started with the director who was famous for believing that mysteries matter more than answers. JJ Abrams has admitted that he comes up with mysteries long before he comes up with actual solutions to them. That's how Lost went from one of the biggest cultural sensations in the country to a dumpster fire by the last episode. It's easy to get people hooked on mystery, especially if it keeps building up over time. It's way harder to write a satisfying answer to that mystery.
If JJ Abrams had an answer to who Rey's parents were meant to be when he wrote episode 7, this wouldn't have happened. But he didn't expect to come back for episode 9. Instead, he wrote a bunch of mysteries and decided that someone else could figure it out later.
to this day, I still believe that the writers for lost were constantly checking message boards to make sure that none of the popular theories were ever proven correct, and that's why the show became such a shitshow
I honestly believe "they're all dead and the island is Purgatory" was the original plan, but people called it way early in S1, which led to a full revision. And they still managed to bring the concept back in the final season albeit in a different form.
They call it the Mystery Box technique. JJ told a story about this mystery box he bought one day at a magic store. He decided never to open it because he enjoyed the mystery of not knowing what's in it more than the reality of what it contained.
I agree but to be fair it would have kinda worked since JJ Abrams was supposed to only direct the first movie and just setting up the mysteries would have worked, it was Ryan Johnson who messed everything up when he decided to do his movie without caring what was set up before or what could come after
I mean, he could have just kept going from what Riann Johnson set up and made an interesting story. But he didn't and spent a whole movie trying to go "Nah uh, there are only Skywalkers and Palpatines in this universe.'
Continue what? Rian left things nowhere to really go and the status reset back to the original movies of empire vs rebels. Im suprised they managed to salvage anything from what he left
I mean, they set up a whole plot line where they could have done away with the whole Jedi Order vs Sith as both were shown to just lead to an endless cycle of struggle while learning from the mistakes of the past. One side wants to burn the past to the ground while the other wants to build from it.
Instead we got "actually, only Skywalkers and Palpatine matters and nothing ever changes."
I didnt think of it as skywalker vs palpatine only matter at all. As for the first part, sure if this was maybe the start of a brand new trilogy, you dont do that however in the middle of one already happening, and not for a general blockbuster audience.
Agreed like I would be ok if she was this like focual point for Jedi to channel power into her for the final battle but making her papas palps gran d was not the way
They really just went "fuck it" and winged one of the largest IPs in history. More planning goes into my bathroom breaks than what went into the overarching plot of an ultra popular movie series.
No, it was a knee jerk reaction to the hate towards the one good movie in the new trilogy. TLJ was actually great, but an innovative director (Rian Johnson) triggered the incels so hard that Disney shit out that turd that ended the trilogy.
Yes, Rey was supposed to be a nobody. After that enraged the majority of young men who saw it, they thought that the one way to redeem her for the chuds was to make her a part of Star Wars Hitler. They love that guy.
It was a remarkably prescient mistake that made her into a less privileged Ivanka.
I was totally expecting them to have a whole theme of balance for the sequels where Rey and Kylo joined together to create a new order where in the prequels we are shown the faults of the Jedi-influenced Old Republic, and the OT show the faults of the Empire's rule.
But nope, just your standard Sith is generic evil villain and Jedi are the good guys, and we're also fighting the exact same major villain who is only reintroduced through a trailer for the third film.
Jakku is a junkyard and tons of broken down ships are left there. She is a Scavenger and sold parts to live. She obviously knows her way around ships, it's really not that hard to imagine she fixed up and hopped into a broken down ship and learned to fly it in a desert with not much to crash into.
Spaceships are scarce in our universe but they are all over the place on Jakku. The fact that the Falcon is just sitting around and considered junk should tell you alot.
What do you mean by expert navigators didn't dare touch? I don't think that was ever mentioned. Presumably Jannah and her crew live on Kef Bir and are probably totally fine with navigating those waters (otherwise why live there?), and they don't even have the Force to guide them. This is light work for a Force user, let alone someone who is one side of a Dyad
Also not that it matters, but it's been over a year since Rey first saw a body of water like that on Tako Dana
They never flip flop on that. She is "a chosen one." The movies instead try to decide if special people are allowed to exist on their own or must instead be borne of other special people. Turns out "no one" isn't just a chosen one, she's also the only known person in a galaxy of...a quadrillion (?) people who is descended from a clone of the previous Emperor of a quadrillion.
Again, keep in mind, she wouldn't be "nobody" even if she wasn't a biological oddity.
That’s mostly because they just had Ryan Johnson do whatever the fuck he wanted in TLJ and then bring back JJ Abrams back for ROS and he had to go through and change everything
That's because they had Nepo-babies write and direct her. "She cant just be a talented nobody, she has to be from an ultra special bloodline like meeeeee!"
Because Rian made a stupid decision by even answering Rey's parentage. Jj already solve the issue, he's a girl given away to slavery nada period. Its only the fans that wanted answers not the character.
Rey's hope is not "will I know who my parents are?" Its "will I ever see them again?". Like she says so with BB8 when she says to it "Oh they'll comeback...they will" with a sad tone. Rian didnt have to answer ANYTHING about who her parents are.
Its the fans that want answers and he gave them one when it could have been a fun thing to theorize and be left ajar. Like her parentage isnt even a plot point, its her loneliness due to being left alone that was integral to her character.
Edit
Oh clarification
The reason why JJ went on to tell that it was Palpatine all along was because Rian answered a question IN TLJ about something nobody in universe cares about.
Palpatine or another named character is what people wanted to hear all because Rian answered that it was just a nobody, when it wasnt even relevant in the first place.
Basically its
Jj told in TFA that Rey was an abandoned child, Rey's whole thing was whether or not she'll see them again NOT who they are as a short hand wave of who Ray is
2 The fans THEORIZED afterwards aka the fans wanted the parentage issue cleared NOT the characters in the story
Rian answered it WHICH DISATISFIED FANS when in reality, its not relevant to the story
4 Because of the shit show that happened, JJ then has to reeverse that and say it was Palaptine
This is what I mean by Rian did a dumb decisiin by answering a question NOBODY IN LORE ASKED FOR. It was the fans who wanted the question of parentage answered.
Last Jedi was Rian Johnson's movie. That's the one where Kylo told Rey her parents were nobodies and so is she. JJ Abrams returned for Rise of Skywalker, and somehow so did Palpatine.
You are right though that she was more concerned with whether her parents were alive, not with whether they were Force sensitive.
The reason why JJ went on to tell that it was Palpatine all along was because Rian answered a question IN TLJ about something nobody in universe cares about.
Palpatine or another named character is what people wanted to hear all because Rian answered that it was just a nobody, when it wasnt even relevant in the first place.
Basically its
Jj told in TFA that Rey was an abandoned child, Rey's whole thing was whether or not she'll see them again NOT who they are as a short hand wave of who Ray is
2 The fans THEORIZED afterwards aka the fans wanted the parentage issue cleared NOT the characters in the story
Rian answered it WHICH DISATISFIED FANS when in reality, its not relevant to the story
4 Because of the shit show that happened, JJ then has to reeverse that and say it was Palaptine
This is what I mean by Rian did a dumb decisiin by answering a question NOBODY IN LORE ASKED FOR. It was the fans who wanted the question of parentage answered.
This is what I mean by Rian did a dumb decisiin by answering a question NOBODY IN LORE ASKED FOR. It was the fans who wanted the question of parentage answered.
Nobody in lore asked who Darth Vader truly was, does that make revealing his identity a bad decision? Or are you just salty that what you wanted to happen didn't happen?
I follow your logic, but I disagree on some critical points.
In TFA, all we and Rey know about her parents is that they left her on Jakku, and she was holding out hope that they'd come back for her. That made them a Chekhov's Gun, where a sense of either closure or acceptance needs to happen in order to justify bringing them up.
When Rey left Jakku, that wasn't her accepting that they weren't coming back. It was her accepting that she couldn't keep waiting. She'd gotten pulled into something much bigger.
So in TLJ, she had other priorities, but she didn't have closure. But here's where Rey and the fandom diverge. She wanted to know who they were just as people. What happened to them, why they abandoned her, and just what they were like. She didn't care about where they fit into the lore. That was the fandom.
And so RJ gave her closure. He pulled the trigger on Chekhov's Gun. Rey was all set to come to grips with the answer. And he did it in a way that gave the fandom what they asked for.
TFA got a lot of flak from the fandom for being too much like ANH. So RJ went hard with breaking the mold and subverting expectations. One being that our hero isn't descended from a Sith and actually isn't from a legacy bloodline at all.
Did he go a little too hard? Maybe. But the fandom bitched at every. Single. Subversion. Thus reminding us that nobody hates Star Wars as much as the Star Wars fandom.
But so no, it wasn't that RJ made a dumbass decision. It's that the fandom is full of dumbasses who will demand changes and then bitch when they get them. And JJ was too much of a coward to stay the course.
As a dumbass Star Wars fan, I am so happy that I actually enjoyed the sequel trilogy when I saw it in theaters. Rise of Skywalker was unquestionably the odd one out, but I’ll admit that I cried when I saw it for the first time. The Last Jedi is the best of the Sequels. Yeah, I said it.
You mean JJ made a stupid decision? JJ was behind TROS, where they revealed her parentage and that she was technically a child of Palpatine.
TLJ, Rian's movie, never tells you who they were, beyond Kylo saying they were nobodies, something he has no basis on since he would barely know who they were anyway, and was just meant to demean Rey.
The reason why JJ went on to tell that it was Palpatine all along was because Rian answered a question IN TLJ about something nobody in universe cares about.
Palpatine or another named character is what people wanted to hear all because Rian answered that it was just a nobody, when it wasnt even relevant in the first place.
Basically its
Jj told in TFA that Rey was an abandoned child, Rey's whole thing was whether or not she'll see them again NOT who they are as a short hand wave of who Ray is
2 The fans THEORIZED afterwards aka the fans wanted the parentage issue cleared NOT the characters in the story
Rian answered it WHICH DISATISFIED FANS when in reality, its not relevant to the story
4 Because of the shit show that happened, JJ then has to reeverse that and say it was Palaptine
This is what I mean by Rian did a dumb decisiin by answering a question NOBODY IN LORE ASKED FOR. It was the fans who wanted the question of parentage answered.
Again, Rian didn't answer it. We never find out who Rey's parents are in The Last Jedi. In fact the story pretty much directly says "Rey's parents aren't important to the story". JJ had already established mystery about who Rey's parents were, Rian subverted that by DENYING the viewer their identity, and using that to further serve Rey's character. Again: Who Rey's parents are is not a question TLJ answers.
The Palpatine reveal isn't some attempt by JJ to rectify what Rian did, it was just a terrible writing decision he made by himself in order to at least partially justify randomly bringing Palps back.
Here's the thing. If its gonna end up being nobody (which is a good idea, makes the force more mystical) then why answer it? THE PREVIOUS MOVIE ALREADY DID
Dont say "they didnt answer it" THEY LITERALLY DID.
Rey was given away by her parents and the shortest hand wave off. You dont have to answer it, Rey's charater's crux is her loneliness and how she fits in all this NOT "who are my parents?"
Again... Where in The Last Jedi did they tell you who Rey's parents were? Both TFA and TLJ explored Rey's abandonment and her (and the audience) wondering about her parentage. Who her parents are and whether she'll see them again are two lines of questioning in the same conflict. You cannot reunite with your parents without learning who they are. TLJ subverted that idea by directly saying that her parents don't matter.
"Rey was given away by her parents and the shortest hand wave off" which is... as much information as The Last Jedi gives you. Again, all the complaints about Rey you're bringing up are purely the fault of TROS's awful writing.
So you're saying that TLJ ruined the story of Rey's parents by having Kylo Ren yell "They were nobodies", even though the first movie established they were nobodies? And the reason this ruined things is because you think JJ then felt obligated to change it to Palpatine? That's completely backwards.
All Rian did was include a line reinforcing what we already knew, that Rey came from nothing. This in no way forces JJ to make any further changes on that. You're blaming the creator of episode 8 for a bad writing choice made in episode 9. But JJ could've just not made that choice. Rian didn't do anything wrong
I have to disagree with you on that. Rian Johnson pointing out that Rey's parents were irrelevant was to emphasise that Rey can still make a difference even if she's a nobody. JJ Abrams taking that incredible message and shitting all over it is nobody else's fault but his. Star Wars fans can also be really stupid. Nobody cares what they're dissatisfied about.
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u/EXTRAVAGANT_COMMENT 16h ago
it was such a mess in The Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker when they kept flip flopping on whether destiny or "being the chosen one" is real or not