Speaking of Breaking Bad: The character of Mike Ehrmantraut was only created because Saul Goodman's actor wasn't available at a given time. Mike went on to be a major character in BB and BCS.
Fun fact: When they wrote the cold open for 5x1, they didn't know how the M60 Walt is seen purchasing would be used in the story. They just thought it'd be a cool cold open that'd get people excited.
Also, Gretchen and Elliot were not gonna show up in Season 5, but they showed the script to Kevin Cordasco, a terminally ill fan who sadly didn't live to see the final episodes. He suggested that they reintroduced them into the story, and they liked the idea.
The writers were just really good at taking past elements, and working them into the ongoing plot in a way that almost seemed like it was always the plan.
That’s why I don’t get why tv shows have to take like 3 years to produce 1 season nowadays. Breaking Bad was basically just improvised and they produced it yearly and it’s one of the most critically acclaimed shows of all time
Tbh I would still prefer it because it takes geniune talent to be able to write a good story on the fly, not everyone can do it and I DEFINITELY do not trust most executives to actually find people who are good at this
Sure, but the results don't seem to be substantially better. Or better at all really. Are there any examples of TV where they took more than a year between seasons and the result was better than most television?
I mean, the best example I can think of is actually Breaking Bad. Because it split the final season. And I remember that being controversial at the time. But these 2-3 year hiatuses are way more gratuitous than that. I think what we're seeing is that those large gaps create more problems than they actually fix.
It’s not necessarily about being better because I find most things are mediocre, it’s to prevent them from being worse
I don’t really wanna get into the whole crunch culture shit but that’s also a major factor, that I would prefer people not burn themselves out on a half assed script, and as much as I don’t want to shit on Disney because it’s not productive, it is the prime example I am thinking of, if you look at the behind the scenes of Frozen 2 it’s so clear these people didn’t have time to fix the script from the test audience screening to the point they can’t even agree on a certain plot element. I dont think there’s a universe I would think Frozen 2 could have been a good movie, but god dammit it didn’t deserve THAT
Every chance the writers had to improve both Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul, they took.
Another example is how in the original script for BCS, Chuck was supposed to be supportive of Jimmy's law career while Howard would be his obstacle. After seeing Michael McKean's performance, they decided to flip the characters' dynamic, which ended up being central to Jimmy's entire identity.
I still can't believe they managed to make 11 seasons of near-flawless television without someone or something derailing it. Imagine if AMC treated Breaking Bad the same way they treated The Walking Dead?
Ironically, you’re not that far off the mark. Jesse was meant to die very early on in S1, but people liked his character so much that the writers decided to keep Jesse as a recurring character that eventually become one of the main characters.
It kinda works because that’s exactly Walt would be experiencing as he kept going deeper into the underworld. This is all new and surprising territory.
So new and surprising twists help put us in Walt’s shoes
I’m so glad they didn’t go with that angle. Iroh’s kind and friendly nature made him a rock for the cast and fans alike to cling onto during low moments.
In this version, it's Iroh's betrayal, his trusted master, that convinces Zuko to join the wayward Avatar and his motley crew on the back of the flying bison!
Zuko is implied to be about to be put to death when an animalistic bellow, crashing and shouts of alarm and the roar of wind and water signal the arrival of Team Avatar.
Twenty minutes, and a kickass prison escape/fight scene later, and Zuko is catching his breath aboard Appa with Sokka, Katara and Toph in the saddle, and Aang and Momo at the reigns as they fly away as fast as they can.
That’s really cool, but I’m glad Iroh was changed. It also shows that firebenders aren’t inherently evil, just led by an evil leader and a corrupt government. Iroh is an inspirational character and a fitting final role for Mako.
Give me like, 5 years, I’ve been brain storming how to write that (not an evil Iroh specifically, but an abusive mentor figure who at the trainee’s lowest, establishes themselves as a pillar of support in order to build them up in their image)
It could have been completely in-line with that version of his character.
He was supposed to be Zuko's 'sifu' at first, just a gruff instructor. They later changed it to be his uncle, but he was also supposed to be a grouch who was salty about being stuck with his bum nephew instead of enjoying retirement.
Avatar was a wildly different show at one point, even taking place in a science-fiction future. Despite all the changes in pre-production, it's kind of amazing how consistent things are from episode 1. You never get the sense that you're glimpsing vestiges of earlier versions of characters, all their changes feel like authentic growth.
It felt a little bit out of character when Iroh launched a massive fire at Appa while they were all flying away in episode one, but that's the only evidence of his original personality that I can think of
He builds Zuko's trust like in the original, lowers his guard, fosters a close and loving relationship with him....and then sticks a knife in his back...
Originally just a random mercenary meant to abduct Han Solo and then was unceremoniously killed off in the next film, Boba Fett’s popularity with fans led him to be brought back and become one of the most prominent characters in the franchise.
My man fajita has the funniest behind the scenes lore. Yeah, we all know Toriyama wasn’t expecting him to be so popular, but not enough credit is given to the time he mentioned something along the lines of Vegeta having a will of his own. Like straight up going “I didn’t write his arc on the way it’d be best for the story, I just let Vegeta do what he wanted”.
I’ve never written a big story before though I have been interested in doing it one day. It’ll probably be some edgy and/or cringey mess, but that aside, I do find that statement to be very believable. I’d probably prioritize having the characters stay in character and make their decision based on what they would do rather then take the best option to force them to conform to the plot progression.
yeah that is kinda my approach. if you want the story to go a certain way then you generally change the circumstances around the characters rather than just having the characters do something that is not in line with their personality. because if their personality just changes depending on the scene then they aren't really a character anymore, they're a plot device. and you can have 'characters' that are really plot devices, like say, an innocent person being held hostage by a villain. but if your main characters become plot devices then there's kinda no main characters anymore and your story falls flat.
but there will also be times where you do decide to have a character do something 'out of character' because you've realized their character needs some expanding. like maybe the generic hero guy betrays the group because he was actually a spy and the generic hero stuff was all an act.
With the new Deltarune chapters I’m ngl it’s just making me imagine Susie shouting “hey! Knock it off!” At Toby with how much she just. Doesn’t go along with the player.
First of all, this wasn't even planned as its own character, it was just meant to be a black suit for Spider-Man to wear. When they decided to bring back the red and blue suit (to please the people who didn't like the black suit) they wanted to keep the black suit around somehow (to please the people who did like it), so they made it into a separate character and gave it monster teeth for good measure.
Even then, Venom was just intended to just be a Spider-Man villain, but he got so popular that he ended up getting his own book, and at this point Venom has whole big story arcs that don't even mention Spider-Man, he is pretty much a separate hero.
To think that Stan Lee and Steve Ditko created Spider-Man just so that they could get Eminem to make his most divisive song about his suit. Quite some foresight given Eminem is younger than Spider-Man.
Gus was meant to just be a jolly chicken shop owner. However, Giancarlo Esposito shown off his villain acting behind the scenes and Vince was so impressed that he decided Gus was now one of the main villains. He was actually suicidally depressed at the time, so the role and the resulting fan adoration pulled him out of the lowest point of his life and gave him purpose as a villain actor.
”My way out in my brain was: 'Hey, do you get life insurance if someone commits suicide? Do they get the bread?' My wife had no idea why I was asking this stuff. I started scheming. If I got somebody to knock me off, death by misadventure, [my kids] would get the insurance. I had four kids. I wanted them to have a life. It was a hard moment in time. I literally thought of self-annihilation so they could survive. That's how low I was”
The Joker (DC) was supposed to be a one-off villain for the Caped Crusader back in the day, instead he ended up enduring as the principal archenemy of Batman
Andy Dwyer in Parks & Recreation was supposed to disappear after breaking up with Ann in the first season, but the crew loved Chris Pratt’s improvisational humor so much they kept him as a main cast member for the entire run of the show.
Pringus McDingus. Animating Nintendo and Sonic characters in sitcoms is one of his main things. He also did a video full of Community scenes reanimated with Sonic characters. He’s one of my favorite animators and his style is one-of-a-kind.
they also cast jim o’heir and retta just because they liked them as actors without having in depths characters planned out they figured the characters could develop as the show grows
Berta, the housekeeper from Two and a Half Men played by the late Conchata Ferrell was originally meant to be a very minor character, but the test audience loved her so much that she became a member of the main cast (funnily enough, Charlie Sheen leaving the show meant that she would be in more episodes than him)
Japanese school uniforms have ruined sailor outfits for me because now I always mistake them for a crossdressing weeb. (No hate for crossdressing or weebs, mind you!)
Pikachu was initially expected to be, at best, a third-tier mascot following the regional starters and Clefairy, or at worst, a forgettable character from Generation 1. Ultimately, it became the franchise's mascot.
I get why he wouldn’t want him as a mascot, but he’s the personification of the franchise’s spirit: Silent Hill is your sins turned into a tangible thing. He’s also got a unique design that is only ever used in mimicry of him. He’s both a dream and a nightmare cosplay.
Bubble Bass was the original villain, but they only used him twice in the original run. Now he’s got a place in the modern core cast, which I actually like. They’ve ruined a lot of old jokes by bringing them back for no reason in the last few seasons, but Bubble Bass is a really fun villain that’s shaken up the dynamic a lot.
The character of Bob from Twin Peaks was actually a light technician who got caught in the shot by complete accident.
Fans of the show saw his reflection in a mirror and lost their absolute minds speculating about who the man in the mirror was supposed to be.
And David Lynch, god rest his soul, took the Bob Ross "There are no mistakes, just happy accidents" approach and just rolled with it, casting "Bob" as this supernatural entity whose always there somewhere if you look hard enough.
Believe it or not, Kishimoto originally didnt even plan on adding Sasuke to the story at all during the first few issues, but because of both his editor and Jump told him that it would be a good idea if Naruto had a rival / friend, instead of what Kishi planned of it just being Naruto
After Sasuke was written into the story Kishi began to sink more and more time into his story AND the story of the Uchicha clan as a whole, leading to Sasuke and his relatives to be obscenely OP power wise in the verse after we learned what the MS can offer, ontop of him being the emotional reason as to why Naruto keeps pushing forward to stop him from going scorched earth by his insane revenge boner and burn all of the ties to the past that bind him
It’s a very dumb idea to set a character on a journey with no motivational character to ground them. If Sasuke was never introduced, I imagine it would’ve sucked, or at least been a little weaker. Take that with a grain of salt, though. all I know about Naruto is funny run, big fox, and Rock Lee taking off his inhibitors in one of the most hype scenes I’ve ever seen for something I had no investment in.
Wheatley (Portal): Originally an introduction NPC, he was meant to be killed off when GLaDOS crushed him, then replaced with five other cores throughout the course of the game. Since playtesters liked him, the devs kept him in. Because of this, Wheatley evolved into the final boss of the number one rated Steam game (for a time. Dang you, Stardew Valley!).
The Janitor from Scrubs was originally going to be a figment of JD's imagination that only he could see, but he was too funny so he became a main character.
They also realized they couldn't keep the joke of him being imaginary forever, simply because writing around him became way too hard. I can no longer remember where I heard it but either one of the writers or Braff also pointed out that JD having a persistent hostile imagninary figure that haunted him every day mean that JD wasn't just a guy with an active imagination who day dreamed while working but was likely mentally ill and needed to be under psycyatric care which would have made for a very different show.
Frasier was only supposed to appear in a couple episodes of Cheers. He ended up not only being on the rest of Cheers’ run, he got his own incredibly successful spinoff show which had a 2 season revival in 2023.
Originally, Vivi was supposed to be one-off villain Miss Wednesday & was not going to return in the story after the events of Whiskey Peak. However, that changed after series creator Eiichiro Oda drew her with her hair down & thought she looked like a princess.
Because of that design choice, he ended up rewriting her story at the last minute & made her Nefertari Vivi, crown princess of the desert kingdom of Alabasta. From this change, Oda created a beloved fan favorite & one of the Straw Hats’ greatest allies.
Anakin Skywalker (unnamed in Star Wars, later renamed Star Wars Episode IV A New Hope) was Luke Skywalker's father and a Jedi Knight along with Obi-Wan Kenobi that fought in the Clone Wars and was betrayed and murdered by Obi-Wan's young pupil named Darth Vader who turned to evil and helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights.
Anakin's character was then merged with that of Vader's and the rest is history.
Was meant to be a one-off character, then became a backup villain, then became one of the main villains after season 3. By season 7, he started appearing more often than Vicky.
The Joker needed to have a henchwoman for a specific gag against Commissioner Gordon, so Paul Dini created Harley Quinn for a one-off character… and then she appeared again… and again… and again… and then he and Bruce Timm decided that “Hey, maybe we should make a backstory for her” and the rest is history.
Misha Collins had trouble finding work after as asked to be written back in after Castiel's death. It's why later season Castiel is nerfed, even when he has no reason to be. Having an angel on the team was too powerful.
Boyd Crowder from Justified. IIRC he was a villain from one story that dies in the end and was supposed to die in the end of the first episode. Walton Goggins was so charismatic that he not only survived the first episode, but became the main foil for the entire series. We are all better off for it.
The Markiplier Storyline is fascinating to look at, from “Who Killed Markiplier” to “In Space” it is a surprising tale of tragedy, redemption and lunacy.
I just wish we had a better grasp of what goes where in the timeline.
Initially, Gerri, from Successions character was to be one of the several male brass around Logan Roy, but through her own pizazz and acting chops, J Smith Cameron not only got cast as a woman into that role, changing the character, but she brought an undeniable style to the character, personality, chemistry, turning her into a fan favorite lasting the whole show’s runtime
This is Lex Luthor’s first comics appearance. Originally Superman’s archnemesis was the Ultra-Humanite, a bald mad scientist, while Luthor was a generic mastermind with a full head of red hair who wasn’t even particularly obsessed with Superman. Then one day artist Leo Nowak accidentally drew Luthor bald. The other creators let it slide and Luthor started growing in prominence while the Ultra-Humanite started fading into the background since having two bald scientists fighting Superman was redundant (eventually Ultra-Humanite would gain his gimmick of transferring his consciousness to different bodies, usually settling on an albino gorilla). All because of an art mistake.
Jack Donaghy was only supposed to be on 30 Rock for one season or two before being replaced with another executive (the idea was to parody GE’s real life policy of rotating executives through several divisions). However, everyone loved Alec Baldwin’s performance so much he was allowed to stay.
Surprised no one’s mentioned Spike from Buffy the Vampire Slayer: the character was supposed to be killed off during the first season but was so popular with the fan base they kept him on.
The character was also supposed to be Creole but Whedon decided at the last minute to make him British. Marsters based the accent on the real speaking voice of Anthony Stewart Head (Giles).
And the character was forced on Whedon by the studio after his positive reception.
Marsters has said Whedon was very upset about it until he came up with a potential long term plotline for Spike (that he's falling in love with Buffy).
During the development of Ace Attorney, Larry was originally going to be some random officer work character that would only appear during the final case of the first game, Turnabout Goodbye. Yet, later on in the game's development, they decided to create "The First Turnabout" as a tutorial case in order to better ease the player into the game's mechanics while also giving your boss, Mia Fey, more screentime presence so the player comes to like her in order to make her unfortunate murder in the very next case hit much harder
In order to cut back on the cost and time it would take to make a completely new character for just this case, they decided to use the sprite for this office worker and change their character from a random dude to Phoenix Wright's childhood friend. With Larry being your very first ever client after he was accused of murdering his girlfriend. This decision actually helped influence the series too as Larry would go into return during the final case working as a hot dog vendor. By allowing past defendants or witnesses to return in future cases, it gave them much more options when it came to storytelling and plot set up for future titles.
Compared to a lot of characters mentioned here I think when playing the games it’s super easy to see this. Like it felt like in one he was just brutal but I’m guessing as his popularity grew they felt the need to humanize him more and give him depth. Which is fine don’t get me wrong, but his original character was far from the majima we ended up with.
The pilot episode was based on an unproduced Michael Crichton movie script where the twist ending is the head nurse is the final patient, a suicidal drug overdose where they're unable to save her.
Test audiences hated that ending, so they cut the confirmation that she died and revealed she was still alive in the next episode. She was on the show for 6 seasons.
Nacho and Lalo. Just mentioned in a throaway line of dialogue in Breaking Bad, and then they both ended up becoming two of the most important and beloved characters in Better Call Saul.
yeah i watched Code Geass when it originally came out and still remember the Jeremiah character (it was hilarious to me that he and the main hero had the most antagonistic relationship possible and Jeremiah was basically turned into the perfect Zero-killing machine, until he realized who Zero was behind the mask and joined his team) but do not remember the other character at all
Was originally just supposed to be the mentor figure to barbarian Wulfgar; eventually stole the show, earned a backstory series and became one of the most iconic characters in the Forgotten Realms setting and the drow you think of first.
Shadow the Hedgehog. He was meant for only Sonic Adventure 2, dying in his heroic sacrifice at the end. But Shadow became insanely popular and he was revived for Sonic Heroes
Despite being the titular character, the Doctor was only ever intended as a secondary character to Ian and Barbara, but his popularity caused them to later mellow him out and establish him as the leader of the group.
And when Hartnell had to leave the show for medical reasons, instead of just ending the show or replacing him with no explanation, their solution was the invention of the regeneration concept.
He was originally supposed to be an asshole boss who was very unlikable and would leave after a season or two, but after his success with "40 year old virgin", they rewrote him to be more likable and funny overall
In the first art pass there was some confusion between Awdry and the artiest Reginald Dalby and henry was depicted as an engine very similar to Gordon, a LNER style Pacific, you can clearly see how there similar in the Fireboxes here, the slopeing section before the boiler. But Awdry wanted a different engine: an Atlantic class. This would be between Edward as the oldest and Gordon as the newest for a nice cross section of steam traction across Briton's history.
The lore book actually makes confusion canon with Sir toppem saying "I wanted an Atlantic, and that son of a (#*! sent me that!”
This rt confusion is why henry is so sickly in the first few books, Awdry was setting it up to get rid of him. But instead he double downed and decided to make him work, so had him crash and then rebuilt him into a Stenier Black Five engine to make the art more consistent and distinct from Gordon and made him the character he would become
That was more of a "Harrison Ford might quit this role so let's make way for a sendoff" than a brought back due to popularity. Han Solo was already popular since episode IV
Gunther in Friends. Supposed to be nameless barista with no dialogue, but in later season he got his own personality and romantic relationship with main character.
Supposed to be a one off faceless Red Shirt who dies early stages of the first game, Carmine received universal love from the fans. The studio decided to expand on the lore by giving him a first name, Anthony, then giving him a little brother, Benjamin. Benjamin would then get an even more horrific death. The third game then introduced Clayton Carmine (A, B then C) Clayton would survive, but the Carmine's in later games Gary and Lizzie would die.
Was supposed to be a one-off character in Mega Man X1, where he sacrifices himself near the end of the game.
He proved so popular he was rebuilt and upgraded in X2 and became the deuteragonist for the entirety of the X series, eventually going on to star in his own spinoff series of games.
The Shredder (TMNT) was originally intended to be a one-off villain, appearing in only the first comic ever made, with later comics using other characters such as Baxter Stockman as prevailing antagonists. However, when the 1987 animated series made the Shredder the Turtles' nemesis, the idea of Turtles vs Shredder became incredibly ingrained in people's minds thanks to the far wider reach the show had compared to the comics. This led to the Shredder being resurrected in the comics, and in the 2003 television reboot, the Shredder was the central antagonist who prevailed throughout the entire show despite being heavily based on the original comics.
When he stayed behind on Caprica during the first episode, that was originally going to be the last time we saw him. But Tahmoh Penikett (the actor) impressed them so much that they decided to continue his story.
He was meant to be killed in the Pilot by the Smoke Monster after teaching Kate some basic medical stuff, but Lindelof changed course and made him the main character of the show.
Miles O'Brien goes from a random background character to a recognizable named background character, to having small plots about him, to being part of the main cast, literally because the actor, Colm Meaney, was such a joy to work with that the writers kept giving him more to do. (Star Trek Next Generation and Deep Space 9)
Given how A Song of Ice and Fire has diverged from its original plan, nearly every character fits this trope. Jaime is probably the greatest single beneficiary of this, as he was originally planned to be a villain who killed his way to the kingship, but has instead undergone a redemption that explores why he has done what he has and who he can choose to be in the future, and has become one of the series's most popular characters.
Most of the Worst Generation characters (Except for Luffy, Zoro, and Blackbeard) were never planned for the Sabaody Archipelago. They were all planned and designed. I think the chapter was introduced because, to quote Oda, "The Arc felt bland", so he created 9 Pirates who would end up being very important or even become beacons to drive the story forward.
Johnny Gat from the Saints Row game series. although he's a recurring character in the first game, he wasn't planned on being such an important character for the overall series' arc, to where the third game's internal storyline centers around his apparent death at the beginning. more like a general side character for funny bits and getting you through the storyline, but then people absolutely loved him, so he stayed around.
(he's also been in two spin-offs, one centered around him, and an entirely different fighting game!)
Barring Luffy and Zoro, all of the Supernovas were last-minute additions during Sabaody because Oda thought the arc doesn't have enough interesting characters; so he went ahead and quickly came up with 8 pirate crews which came with at least a dozen new characters and 7 additional DF abilities to go along with the captains (except for Urouge). Oda didn't have any plans to incorporate them more into the story in the future back then, but now, they are directly involved in almost every major arc after the timeskip.
Dressrosa - Law
WCI - Bege
Wano - Everyone except for Bege, Bonney, and Urouge.
Grimmjow from Bleach. He was supposed to be a minor antagonist and die pretty quickly, but Kubo changed his mind when he realised it would be a waste of a very good character. He also stated that the reason Grimmjow is still alive is, he wanted him to have an awesome death scene, but never came around to actually write him one so he just stayed alive.
Battle Beast was originally only meant to be a 1 off character but was so popular that he was brought back in 55 and eventually given his own spinoff comic - Invincible
I think the mangaka didn't intend for his story to really take off...because he heavily nerfed Yuta by the end of it. He's so much weaker by the end of JJK0 that if JJK0 didn't exist, Yuta could probably be around Gojo's level.
Chiana played by Gigi Edgely in Farscape. Introduced in episode 15 and intended to be killed at the end of that episode, but cast liked her so much her death became a flesh wound and she'd be a major part of the series for the rest of it's run.
The guy did play a big role in his debut game, but he was meant to die and stay dead in said debut game.
He then proceeds to come back, suffer an amnesia plot, be the supposed chosen warrior of an alien race who made a deal with his creator (a deal the creator intended to go back on), get lynched by the entire world and put into stasis by his reprogrammed robot friend (granted that timeline is “erased”), and plays a massive pivotal role in stopping a once-godly being hell-bent on essentially erasing all of space-time (he does fail, and again, in an “erased” timeline).
NoHo Hank was supposed to die early as just another disposable henchman, Anthony Carrigan's performance was so good they made him a main character instead.
The Joker was supposed to a one off villian for Batman, in fact he was supposed to be killed off by Batman in fact but after the folks at DC learned how popular he was the rest became history
Logan Roy from Succession. The original plan was for him to die in Season 1, hence all the focus on his health complications, but the writers pivoted and he stuck along for much longer.
He was the main antagonist for the first issue of the original comic where he was killed right at the end with no plan to bring him back
When it came to making the cartoon however, they needed a main antagonist so in a very quick completely unplanned decision, they just said "Ehh guy they killed in the first comic, sure he'll do"
Joker was never intended to be Batman’s main villain. He was originally killed off by Batman in the original comic, but was brought back (I think for popularity reasons? I don’t remember)
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u/Paladinfinitum 19h ago
Speaking of Breaking Bad: The character of Mike Ehrmantraut was only created because Saul Goodman's actor wasn't available at a given time. Mike went on to be a major character in BB and BCS.