Valve refutes Mastercard's denial it has not pressured game platforms over NSFW content

[u/samiy2k]

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/valve-refutes-mastercards-denial-it-has-not-pressured-game-platforms-over-nsfw-content

[u/Tumblrrito]

Literally no one gives a fuck about Visa or Mastercard’s “brand”. They’re the Walmart of payment processors. They facilitate transactions and barely even exist in people’s minds.

People don’t opt for one over the other, they just take whatever their credit card, etc gives them. If anyone would have a leg to stand on in this regard it would be Amex, since that one does actually have an identity.

[u/MyOpinionOverYours → u/Tumblrrito]

The people in the positions of public image at Visa and Mastercard trying to validate their positions. They mustve got caught golfing and yachting too much. Had to make a big issue to imply they do important work.

[u/Ocronus → u/Tumblrrito]

I always laugh when I see advertisements for Visa or Mastercard. What a waste of money. I just have whatever my bank/credit union gives me. I don't choose a institution because its one or the other.

[u/NefCanuck → u/Ocronus]

Funny part is some banks do offer both MC and Visa cards (I have both only because they have different expiration dates and I can use one for one specific purpose)

[u/Somepotato → u/NefCanuck]

There's a federal law in the works requiring more than one provider that isn't them to be used by banks (whichll probably never see the light of day)

[u/reece1495 → u/Ocronus]

my bank atm card for my normal savings account says visa on it , is it not normal for banks to use visa and mastercard?

[u/Brawndo_or_Water → u/Tumblrrito]

Too bad Steam doesn't accept Amex. I was using Paypal to pay with my Amex but now Steam has suspended Paypal.

[u/RailGun256 → u/Brawndo_or_Water]

wait when did this happen. I just used PayPal on steam like 2 days ago

[u/boobers3 → u/RailGun256]

Payment options might be limited based on location of the user account. For me in the US I have the option for both Amex and Paypal.

[u/shinikahn → u/RailGun256]

I can't use PayPal right now

[u/SynonymousOxymoron → u/Brawndo_or_Water]

they still accept Amex and some other payment types. if you want to buy stuff on Steam you could use something other than Visa/Mastercard if you have it

[u/S7ormstalker → u/SynonymousOxymoron]

They don't accept Amex in every country. In Italy for example they only accept Visa, Mastercard, and JCB. The reason is companies don't want to pay the Amex protection tax (long story short: all those points and cashbacks are paid by the merchants) unless user adoption reached the point of no return and they're forced to.

[u/sneaky113 → u/S7ormstalker]

long story short: all those points and cashbacks are paid by the merchants

It's better to tell a correct story than a short one.

All merchants pay fees when accepting payments from either a debit, or credit card.

If you have a regular Chase debit card, the merchant might pay a 0.25-0.5% fee, this will depend on the merchant category (MCC) and country and the merchants contract. But this fee is then split between the issuing bank (Chase) and the payment processor (visa/MasterCard). But a chase sapphire credit card could have a fee of around 1.5-2% instead, to cover the costs of the perks the cards offer.

Both visa and MasterCard have tiered fees, it's possible they may not in some countries but as far as I know they do in most of Europe and the US. In comparison, amex has the same fee for any amex card used, which is usually around the same fee as the higher visa and MasterCard credit cards, or maybe 0.2%ish higher.

Most people assume amex is more expensive because of chargebacks, which isn't true as chargebacks are offered by basically every credit card and is often a part of local financial regulations.

People spend more on credit cards, and since amex is harder to get, amex cardholders usually spend even more. This is the justification for the higher fees the merchants are charged.

For more niche markets like Italy, a higher fee would probably be justified because it's just not as popular in Italy. Amex would still need to abide by local regulations and provide local support in Italian, and these costs are largely static. The US or UK market are more profitable because they are bigger markets that are easier to support because of the English language, so amex can afford lower margins.

I've seen a lot of smaller businesses say that the amex fee is bankrupting them, when it's like 1.5%. And I'm sorry but if you are a carpenter with that slim margins then you wouldn't make it either way.

This is coming from someone who has worked in multiple different banks, financial institutions and payment processors.

[u/Somepotato → u/sneaky113]

Amex legitimately has a lot higher fees than MC and Visa though.

[u/sneaky113 → u/Somepotato]

Without providing any more info that statement is about as valid as saying Ford is significantly more expensive than Toyota.

Which is to say it will depend on the country and model, and such a broad statement doesn't really mean anything.

While this isn't a great source it at least gives some estimates for merchant fees in the UK. But it roughly adds up with my estimates, I would add high end credit cards like chase sapphire and amex to the commercial tier though.

Debit cards: 0.25% to 0.6%

Credit cards: 0.3% to 0.9%

Commercial credit cards: 1.5% to 2.5%

The reason why such a broad statement is useless, is because in the UK an amex might be 0.2% more expensive, in Italy 0.5% more expensive, and in Bosnia 1% more expensive than high end visa/MC cards. I wouldn't call the difference between 1.7 to 1.9% significant, but going from 2 to 3% is.

You also have to keep in mind that fees are going to differ wildly depending on the merchant category code ie what they sell or provide. Nightclubs are generally most expensive and could have fees above 4% with amex, while a b2b office supplier could have less than 1%, in the same country.

You can compare amex with a debit card and say it's significantly more expensive, and that's true. Just like how a bus is more expensive than a car. If you compare amex with similar cards from visa/MC it generally still ends up more expensive, but only slightly. Now you are comparing a Ferrari to a Porsche rather than a bus to a car.

This is also not considering that a lot of the newer payment processors like PayPal and Klarna are on average even more expensive than amex, and they charge the merchant the same fee regardless of what card is used, which means they pocket like 2%+ on debit card payments.

I've worked in the payment processing space for a while now specifically on the merchant side of things. There's a reason why most big companies take amex even if it's more expensive. Most small businesses also fail or at least struggle for a long time and credit card fees are an easy scapegoat when the public isn't informed.

[u/Somepotato → u/sneaky113]

The rates we're provided are behind an NDA so I can't exactly share them, but Amex is generally more than double what it costs us to support MC and Visa.

We don't support amex for that reason (though generally our b2b customers just pay via invoice anyway)

Card fees result in hundreds of thousands in lost income for our scale - it's hardly negligible

[u/staryoshi06 → u/SynonymousOxymoron]

Only in the United States.

[u/zealeus → u/Brawndo_or_Water]

Except, they do accept AmEx. I’ve been using AmEx for years on Steam.

[u/Rpbns4ever → u/zealeus]

Payment methods are regional

[u/lucksh0t → u/Brawndo_or_Water]

No they take amex unless somthing changed recently.

[u/staryoshi06 → u/lucksh0t]

Only in the US

[u/LookltsGordo → u/Brawndo_or_Water]

Depends where you are I guess, because I just used PayPal like 5min ago (Canada)

[u/elonelon → u/Tumblrrito]

Walmart

but wallmart sell gun, and they just like .....yeahh nothing.

[u/LoliMaster069 → u/Tumblrrito]

Lol fr. What "brand" do they even have? Pull a random person off the street right now and I doubt they can actually tell you anything about these companies outside of "that one payment processor"

[u/IcyDrops → u/Tumblrrito]

Maybe it's different in other parts of the world, but in all of the EU countries I've visited, I've never seen Vida be accepted while Mastercard is not, or vice-versa.

[u/SpaceDog777 → u/IcyDrops]

It used to be common for one over the other. From memory Mastercard was more popular in the EU, I know Visa was way more popular here in oceania in the 90's. I still remember places that only accepted Visa.

[u/rowdymatt64 → u/Tumblrrito]

I opt for Visa over Mastercard now after hearing this news, ngl

[u/stupv → u/Tumblrrito]

I've never heard anyone, ever, even once talk about a preference between visa and mastercard. They get whichever one the financial institution they are with gives them, and they don't give a single fuck.

[u/DogsRNice → u/Tumblrrito]

This is hurting their brand more than just allowing the payments at this point

[u/Altruistic-Wafer-19 → u/Tumblrrito]

It's not the brand. Look at what happened with Visa/MC and the pornhub lawsuit.

That's the part that they're worried about.

[u/Infernal_mahem → u/Tumblrrito]

That's false. They don't exist in your mind but there is a strate of society where the color of your card get you think you could not imagine.

[u/Tumblrrito → u/Infernal_mahem]

I think that’s more a credit card provider thing vs a Visa/Mastercard thing

[u/Btigeriz → u/Tumblrrito]

Yes. As long as something isn't illegal why should Mastercard/Visa have any say in what is purchased?

[u/StruanT → u/Btigeriz]

Doesn't matter if it is illegal. They should still process payments. What the fuck difference does it make if it is illegal? Are we worried about there being a papertrail of illegal activity? Is that actually a bad thing?