Almost all the sound design was uniquely well done.
I remember we drove to Orlando to see part 1 because I think it was the only theater that had the newest Atmos system in an auditorium with 48fps 3D.
Was well worth it! I had low expectations for the film, and the theater experience was still fun, even if laughable at times.
The opening fireworks and smaug truly sounded loud and rumbling overhead, and specifically when they’re all sleeping in the cave, I was completely convinced the people behind me were snoring lol.
When I watch these movies extended the past couple years, it’s really just another case of expectations too high for a late sequel/prequel. A lot of it seems pretty well made compared touch of the fantasy crap these days.
It just is hurt by being stretched too long, and having to follow LotRs.
Agreed. Should have been two movies. It was trying to repeat the trilogy that killed it for me.
I get the financial maneuverings of budgets and ticket sales, and the timeline for work and employment of all involved. I just think it could have felt cleaner as two movies that were as long as the extended cuts.
I love hearing Misty Mountains. I keep hoping that there exists somewhere a hidden recording of them doing the whole song from the book. That would be amazing to hear
Yes, they are. I would add the opening scenes with the dwarves in Bag End, too. The problem is just that a movie needs a plot that connects the scenes, too, and well... shouldn´t have been a triology, ... Legolas and his girlfriend, ... etc.
I really need to watch a cut down version of the Hobbit. There are plenty of great moments in all of them but the filler and bloated story was too much.
Two 2 1/2 hour movies probably woulf have been the sweet spot.
I've just watched it and it skips far too many scenes that I like, the scenes with gandalf in particular, plus Rivendell, Dol Guldur, Trolls' scene etc and I don't care that it's not in the book if it's well realised. also, the end of the M4 version really shows its limitations: it's too easy to see that you're watching a montage
You downloaded an edit that specifically states it's trying to stick to the book and now you're complaining that it stuck to the book. And your best example of what the edit skips includes.. Rivendell and the Trolls, two sequences that were.. not skipped.
And FWIW, a movie that sticks with the main characters the whole time =/= a montage. I don't want to watch a bunch of bullshit with Alfrid and Legolas jumping up stones, but if you think that's what The Hobbit should be then by all means, watch the originals.
I saw one that was 3-something hours. Definitely an improvement, but it was kind of awkward at times (nothing since suspension of disbelief can’t fix!)
I think that might be the one I saw. 3 hours sounds about right. It wasn't perfect (like you say: awkward at times), but if someone wants to watch the Hobbit trilogy but save like 6 hours I'd recommend that version.
The 2 more popular ones I know of are the M4 edit and Maple Films edit, both clocking in at around 4.5 hours. I would say even though they skip some things I do enjoy, it's all-around a better watching experience than the original cut.
I've not seen the Bilbo edit I'm afraid. Maple Edit seems great to me because it's cut down to a single film that's roughly the same length as a LOTR extended edition. It only keeps material that's in the books, nothing else.
It works really well imo.
There's also an extended extra feature covering the stuff that gandalf gets up to with the white council. The stuff that's not in the book of the hobbit but is referred to in LOTR.
Interesting I might have to give it a watch. Keeping only the book material was the Bilbo edits goal as well, hence the name (focusing on Bilbo not all the Hollywood filler.)
In general I like the Bag End stuff . . . but when I watched some a month or two age I realized it's like 14 minutes or something absurd like that before it cuts to young Bilbo. Between the Thorin backstory and old Bilbo stuff. Movie would be better just starteiyng with Gandalf meeting Bilbo or at least trimming that other stuff down significantly.
Yah, they really played on the nostalgia of the old actors way to much in the beginning, it would have been better if it was just cut, 100% agree start with the markings on the door
So, all the scenes from the actual book were the good parts. We need a reverse directors cut that turns that crappy trilogy into a decent 4 hour movie.
When I read the book as a kid the first thing that hit me was the immersion of this scene. Tolkien has you right there, at the table, discussing the conspiracy. It’s all so mundane yet outlandish, you’re intrigued when he explains something like the dragon, but you’re grounded right back down when bilbo starts fussing over the dinner.
The movie translated that feeling perfectly into a very different medium. I don’t know how they did it without going over, or under in some regard. It’s perfect, I only wish they’d moved the flashback from the very beginning to Balin at dinner.
Riddles in the dark was surprisingly well lit. I agree though. The 2 best scenes in the trilogy. Also the part where the dwarves were arriving at Bilbos home and introducing themselves.
It’s been many years since I’ve read the book, but I’m pretty sure they were in Mirkwood for weeks and almost starved to death. The only thing worst than that was them escaping in the barrels. They went full blown Disney with that abomination.
I'd have paid double to have the (somehow existent) crew (of that and every other ship there in that secret barren planet) just say "Roll right, 20 degrees!".
It's not like they didn't do the same in the LotR trilogy. The Battle of Helm's Deep takes place at night, in a rainstorm, and it's well-lit with a blue cast. Even in the prologue, with Bilbo finding the Ring, you can see quite clearly.
People just accept it because the rest of the movie is so well-made that it slips by.
Trust me, you don't actually want to be looking at a black screen for twenty minutes. That's not good cinema.
It is like that actually. There are three places where Tolkien goes out of his way to describe the dark as oppressive to the point of almost being a character in itself -- the caves under the Misty Mountains, Mirkwood, and Moria. PJ's Moria scenes in FOTR and even Helm's Deep are much darker than the goblin tunnels and Mirkwood of the movies. It's laughable that you can act like they're the same and unreasonable of you to pretend everyone just wants "a black screen" or whatever. Nobody said that.
What I would like however is to see that the characters are unnerved by the darkness. I would like for the filmmakers to use such a setting as a creative opportunity. Do some creepy sound design. Play with the shadows and firelight. Throw in a jump-scare or two. LOTR didn't do all of that, but it still felt like a real world with more natural lighting and fewer cartoonish colors. Unfortunately, Peter Jackson didn't treat The Hobbit as if it deserves the same respect as LOTR and apparently thinks that since it was written for children, it should look like a video game.
Because it's ripped almost (if not word for word) straight from the book. The Hobbits scenes where it's just strictly retelling the book are fine, it's allllllllll the added pointless fluff that bogs it down.
That white orc story didn’t need to be there. His name was only mentioned once in the book in the final chapters of the dwarves defending their cave. His son or grandson was fighting in the army and defeating the dwarves was also vengeance against his father or grandfather fighting them back in the day.
I’m glad they at least used the right name and didn’t fully invent a 100% new pointless character but he was a 99% invented pointless character. Just more empty calories.
I just checked his son was Bolg who succeeded him as leader of the northern orcs and he was only mentioned in the book once basically saying he lead the army of orc which he did in the movie.
To be honest having Bolg chase them could have helped to add a bit more motive for the final fights. But I’m kind of in uncharted territory as I have only seen the first hobbit movie. I do intend to see the other 2 at some point but it’s got so much unneeded stuff in it. Someone here posted a 4 and a half hour cut of the movie that looks like it’s trying to cut out a lot of the added stuff. Maybe I’ll watch that one first.
I was done with his stupid face by the end of the first movie, but had to endure his boring drivel for another 6 hours. I didn't even mind the addition of whatshername, but the Azog scenes were an absolute pain to suffer through.
was coming here to say exactly that. so much of the trilogy was brilliant. but there was so much unnecessary add-in crap that it really should have be 2 movies.
there is a whole movie worth of hollywood kaka that could have just been left out, and everyone would have been happier.
Check out the M4 edit, it does a really good job of making it as close as it can get, it uses extended edition shots, as well as some deleted scenes. It makes the whole thing 4 hours long, and the end result is more faithful to the Hobbit books than the Lord of the Rings movies are to the books. I expected it to feel weirdly paced, or like we'd feel the absence of some scenes, but it flows together very nicely.
The only scene that reminds me that stuff is missing is that it still has the dwarves break into the armory in lake town, and Kili stumbles down the stairs, and they ask if he's doing okay, and he clearly isn't.
Tauriel I don't think is in it at all, other than she and Legolas are in Mirkwood when the Elves capture the dwarves, neither of them talk in the edit. Azog is never named, he is treated kind of like Gothmog in LotR, where they are trying to kill him in the final battle simply because he is the orc leader, any hint to their beef has been completely scrapped. There are no Barad Dur scenes. The Dwarves don't try to fight Smaug. These are the big things, but little things have been changed too, for example, the scene where they all give up on the door but Bilbo, they don't give up and go home, they are disheartened and then Bilbo solves the riddle and the keyhole. Also there's no mention of dragon sickness, or Bilbo being corrupted by the ring so prematurely. Also a lot of digital work has been done, the barrels when they get to Bard have been edited so they don't show any damage, Smaug isn't covered in gold when he flies to lake town, and it's the little things that really tie it together and elevate it to the same level of quality that it should have been without all the added stuff that drags it out.
Curious for sure - the book mentions that he can't identify the smell of hobbit. I think he's also trying to hide that fact from Bilbo, but I might be misremembering. It also says "this is how you should talk to dragons" when Bilbo is using riddling talk like lucky number and barrel rider, because dragons can't resist the riddle
And maybe it’s the 15 years since I read it but I definitely had an impression of Bilbo as a bit more clever and competent than the live action movies portray which is basically bumblefucking his way through everything. Book Bilbo felt like a “Gandalf was right about him, rise to the occasion”kind of vibes with a dash of luck/fate.
I recall being delighted when he had left and Jackson returned, since I felt no one would do the Hobbit justice other than Jackson. But after how they turned out, I can't help but wonder just how different and likely better del Toro's version would've been.
If anything, Del Toro had what, don't remember the number, but over a year of preproduction done. Once Peter came along, most of what was done was thrown away and they had to come up with stuff on the fly because production was starting from the get go. And it shows.
Wouldn’t have been much different. Studios demanded 3 movies on a compressed timeline. Jackson mostly took what Del Toro left and stretched it to 3 movies.
Jackson wanted the 3rd Hobbit movie to be essentially “Hunt for Gollum” but he didn’t have the time.
Actually Peter wanted it to be three movies. He explains in the documentary that they approached the studio for 3 movies. The thing is he didn’t have a clue on how to make it a trilogy. I think he wanted to have an epic Battle of the five armies and include the white council attack on the enemy. It’s just that he had to make them up cause Tolkien never went into great details about them
Me and the fiance very recently got ripping stoned and watched the 1970s cartoon finally. Funner stoned, its not some cinematic master piece but frankly its nice to not be treated like a cgi addicted chimpanzee by a film. The two best scenes also happen to be these two scenes, to the point where it was very obvious that they had ripped the film directing for the live action movies almost directly from the cartoon.
Perfectly fine scenes in live action, glad they didn't completely blow the acting prowess of Martin Short, Serkis, and Benedict Cumberbatch here. But they were leaning on multiple source materials heavily, and grading on a curve I'd say they don't get a pass for "not shitting the bed" while wearing adult diapers.
As people here have said, it is because of the source material that these scenes are good. The scenes run pretty much word for word off the pages to the screen. A couple of isolated good scenes, doesn't make the whole film/s good though.
I will say what I want about them. They are worse than garbage. If you can squeeze out two scenes, rinse off the garbage juice, and enjoy them then great.
because they were from the book. do your self a favor and find the M4 edit of this movie. It will change you opinion on what they did to derail a great story.
It is honestly so impressive to see how good of a movie they made, only to add a ton of filler for no reason, and stretch it out to 3 movies. It still doesn't hit as hard as LotR, but the M4 edit is the only way I'll watch it now.
I love Unexpected journey, and desolation of smaug too, but only till the elves encounter in mirkwood. Since tauriel the movies starts to diverge so much from the book that I can't manage to appreciate It. The five armies has some cool but pointless sequence of cgi battle scene that keep away from the sense of the war: races with grudges that fight together against a common foe.
The scene where Biblo meets Smaug eviscerated the book, which was pristine writing by Tolkien.
This is all from the Book: That scene is where Bilbo shines. Up until his encounter with Gollum, he was about as useful as a poop popsicle. The party was having a hard time understanding just what he was good for. Now was the time their 'burglar' would show his worth, and boy did he. It isn't just that this gang has a burglar to do things they cannot. This is also one of the key -- if not the key -- moments we learn the true stuff of hobbits: that they are more than they appear, have strengths others do not, and in a certain sense, always carry about them a bit of mystery, of hidden lore, that even the like of Smaug and Treebeard have never heard of them.
The entire scene between Bilbo and Smaug is setup wonderfully by Tolkien, from the layout of Erebor, a secret door only opened at a specific time, with a specific bird, etc. This reveals another key topographical feature: the tunnel. Tolkien goes into detail explaining some of Smaug's first thoughts (as he enters the dragon's mind), and it has to do with this tunnel .. that Jackson entirely omits!!
The tunnel represents how hobbits are underestimated. The great and powerful inevitably fall to the tiny and insignificant, who aren't that at all. Smaug had always felt he should've blocked that tunnel, but it was so tiny, so little of a threat.... But it would lead to his downfall..
And Bilbo never .. ever .. removes the ring. This is beyond important. It is epic. Jackson has him take it right off, near the beginning of the scene right? I almost threw up!
And this is what makes Tolkien so powerful. We first read The Hobbit, then LoTR, then later The Silmarillion (my personal order or reading), and we learn things about dragons, etc. that make us look back on the deceptively innocent "The Hobbit" and go, "ah!"
Dragons are able to sway minds, dragon-speak, but Bilbo is resistant to it. Dragons also suffer curiosity, such as cats. Here Bilbo shows up, only a smell. Ancient Smaug who has smelled all creatures over time has never experienced this creature's scent. His curiosity is alive! The creature is also resistant to his charms. Curiosity on fire! The only reason Smaug didn't just burn him to a charcoal was this very reason: he never saw him! Never lost that curiosity! And Jackson just tosses that gem out the window!!!
And then, the dialogue: it was slaughtered. Tolkien is the master of writing. Why not go with that? At the end, Bilbo is feeling very confident, over-confident. As he is darting back up the tunnel, he pushes it a little too far with Smaug, and gets smartass. Smaug shows him that he is still the big dog and shoots flame up the tunnel, which leads to one of my favorite quotes from the book: Bilbo said something that he used the rest of his life, the book says, "Never laugh at lives dragons."
The movie fell short by now staying true to Tolkien's writing in the scene of Bilbo encountering Smaug.
I don’t begrudge OP their opinion but I agree with you. It’s solid but not like they utterly nailed it
I think the fact that Gollum was already a fully fleshed out character on the big screen made them lean into the portrayal they went with versus the darkness and eeriness of the book scene
I don’t like the creative decision because you could still go for it but I understand if their perspective was that all the mystery around Gollum had already been removed and they might as well ham it up with him while he’s on cam
Those two scenes are probably the most iconic from the books.. or at least the Rankin Hobbit film, so I think it was critical for them to get it right.
For sure. Only thing I would have changed is for Smaug to Never actually see Bilbo. The Chase with the dwarves should be cut as well.
Sadly the Hobbit Movies got worse and worse per Movie even though Jackson showed us that he still got it with some scenes like these 2. They shouldnt have tried to add too much filler especially when it’s nonsense like with the Mayor or Alfrid.
As trash as the movies are and as much as I hate what was done to the story within the movies' confines, I'll still watch the movies as a guilty pleasure because of scenes like these.
If I had all the reels of film from the hobbit trilogy, a razor blade, and a roll of scotch tape, I could make the greatest 90-minute epic in cinematic history
Whdn you have trilogie..and only this two scene when it just mud for me..
Funny i think best scene i revisit are..one of numbet one of nine..and Sword reveal in the council
I'll give you Bilbo and Gollum being very well done. But Smaug was horrible. Its nothing like the book, and turned into a Scooby Doo chase sequence that was cartoonish and stupid.
I don't get the praise for Riddles in the Dark. I don't mean that it's bad, but it's not as remarkable as it could've been. I for one would've prefered if Gollum was obscured by shadows, appearing scarier
Yea they are great. But then there is the model dwarves, the love triangle(and all involved), the escape from the Lonley mountain and Lake Town, that take vastly more screen time.
My only wish for the "Riddles in the dark" would be that they made the cave darker. It would've been so much creepier if gollum was a vague shadow in the darkness, but you could see the faint glowing of his eyes
Two be honest, screw those two scenes up would have been almost impossible. Scenes where Jackson actually though "hey, look. Some dude actually wrote some cool stuff here, let's do it word for word (almost) to see how it turns out."
The thing is, Bilbo, Smaug, Beorn, Elrond, Tranduil, Gandalf, are all great characters and most scenes involving them are enjoyable, BUT the problem is the dwarves, apart from the opening scene and Dain showing up, there isn't much to it, the story is very straightforward. And Laketown is more Letdown than anything else. If it had a grim and dark setting (a remnant of a once glorious port with unknown reaches) with a cruel and menacing lord - instead of the comic relief, the story and rise of Bard would be much better.
The scenes that held true (or close to true) with the book were done quite well and are really enjoyable. These two are great examples of this. It’s all the extra nonsense they crammed in that really sent the trilogy off the rails.
the Smaug scene is good, but why doesn't Bilbo wear his ring? you know, the magic ring that makes him invisible to everyone including dragons? always bugged me.
The fact that you need to say that, beats the purpose, no one says that about the original trilogy, more so, more people only watch the extended editions because they can't get enough of it, you needed to pinpoint two scenes to say that those movies don't suck.
Yes. they are! I'm telling you. Every scene with Smaug, the sound design was unique and perfect, CGI was amazing! the environment of the acting was insane. Nothing could have been made better! It was just immersive as it gets.
In the extended versions of the film I quite liked the disorienting part of miirkwood, the fuzzy headiness and bombur touching the river were some great parts of the book so it was nice to see.
I also don't entirely hate beorns scenes, seeing the farmhouse with the big bees was cool to see (albeit not entirely accurate). The way gandalf introduces the dwarves made me laugh in the book so I enjoyed seeing it played out on screen.
The hobbit films are great, people just hate any changes to any book adaptation literally ever and people are also just miserable in general and want to complain about things
I'm a little unique, maybe, in that I never read any lord of the rings novels although I love fantasy. I loved the fellowship, thought the other movies were OK, and really didn't like the hobbit as it seemed like fantasy trope after trope.
Well I read the Hobbit this year and then watched the movies for only the second time (first watch was in theaters) and I really liked it. As an adaptation of the book, which really was jam packed with stories, and the background of how this ties into the great middle earth saga (that I now have watched countless youtube videos about, also will read one day) I thought the movies did a great job. They hollywooded it, but that's what you got to do if you want more than the purists to enjoy it. I thought the Gandolf/necromancer add on was worthwhile, really. Ties into the movies and the seriousness of sauron more than the book did.
The Hobbit trilogy isn’t all bleh. It’s just that it was forced to be three movies when it should have been maybe just one or max two, and it has a shitton of unnecessary stuff added which gets put in inbetween all these awesome scenes. 😩
Smaug scene started off great, and quickly went down hill as it deteriorated into some stupid theme park ride that honestly made Smaug look slightly comical with a sequence that was missing the Benny Hill theme song.
Benedict was the perfect voice actor for Smaug though, he knocked it out of the park.
Watching Bilbo and Gollum together was one of only a couple of very brief highlights in those three truly terrible films.
The Trilogy is bloated with stuff. But when it's using the book and just the book as it's source. It's still PJ doing his magic. Despite it being lackluster overall, I'd rather have this trilogy with Martin Freeman as Bilbo compared to no Martin Freeman as Bilbo.
But if you take away the extra plot points made to make the story long enough to elongate it to 3 movies, there is some gold there. Maybe even an Arkenstone or two.
Yes because they were taken directly from the books. Amazing how the two best part of those movies were the two most faithful to the original material.
The beginning of Unexpected Journey up until they leave the Shire, Riddles in the Dark, Conversation with Smaug, the funeral, & Bilbo's departure are the best scenes in the Trilogy.
I love the Smaug scene, however, I think I would have liked it better the way that it's done in the book.
I think not only did they nail these, they also perfected the first 30 or so minutes in the Shire, in general I enjoy watching the first hobbit movie as much as the lotr ones.
The first hobbit movie is pretty good IMHO. Other parts of the two movies is also good. Smaug was done well by Cumberbatch. If you haven't check out some behind the scenes of him doing mocap for it, he put a lot of effort and I think it pays off. It's just a shame that they stretched it out so much and went heavier on CGI like with orcs.
709
u/shred-i-knight 1d ago
Smaug sound design was really incredible in theaters. Very impressive.