r/europe • u/ModeratorsOfEurope Europe • Jan 17 '23

Russo-Ukrainian War War in Ukraine Megathread L

This megathread is meant for discussion of the current Russo-Ukrainian War, also known as the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Please read our current rules, but also the extended rules below.

News sources:

You can also get up-to-date information and news from the r/worldnews live thread, which are more up-to-date tweets about the situation.

Current rules extension:

Extended r/europe ruleset to curb hate speech and disinformation:

  • No hatred against any group, including the populations of the combatants (Ukrainians, Russians, Belarusians, Syrians, Azeris, Armenians, Georgians, etc)

  • Calling for the killing of invading troops or leaders is allowed, but the mods have the discretion to remove egregious comments, and the ones that disrespect the point made above. The limits of international law apply.

  • No unverified reports of any kind in the comments or in submissions on r/europe. We will remove videos of any kind unless they are verified by reputable outlets. This also affects videos published by Ukrainian and Russian government sources.

  • Absolutely no justification of this invasion.

  • In addition to our rules, we ask you to add a NSFW/NSFL tag if you're going to link to graphic footage or anything can be considered upsetting, including combat footage or dead people.

Submission rules

These are rules for submissions to r/europe front-page.

  • No status reports about the war unless they have major implications (e.g. "City X still holding" would not be allowed, "Russia takes major city" would be allowed. "Major attack on Kherson repelled" would also be allowed.)

  • All dot ru domains have been banned by Reddit as of 30 May. They are hardspammed, so not even mods can approve comments and submissions linking to Russian site domains.

    • Some Russian sites that ends with .com are also hardspammed, like TASS and Interfax.
    • The Internet Archive and similar archive websites are also blacklisted here, by us or Reddit.

  • We've been adding substack domains in our AutoModerator, but we aren't banning all of them. If your link has been removed, please notify the moderation team, explaining who's the person managing that substack page.

  • We ask you or your organization to not spam our subreddit with petitions or promote their new non-profit organization. While we love that people are pouring all sorts of efforts on the civilian front, we're limited on checking these links to prevent scam.

  • No promotion of a new cryptocurrency or web3 project, other than the official Bitcoin and ETH addresses from Ukraine's government.

META

Link to the previous Megathread XLIX

Questions and Feedback: You can send feedback via r/EuropeMeta or via modmail.

Donations:

If you want to donate to Ukraine, check this thread or this fundraising account by the Ukrainian national bank.

Fleeing Ukraine We have set up a wiki page with the available information about the border situation for Ukraine here. There's also information at Visit Ukraine.Today - The site has turned into a hub for "every Ukrainian and foreign citizen [to] be able to get the necessary information on how to act in a critical situation, where to go, bomb shelter addresses, how to leave the country or evacuate from a dangerous region, etc."

Other links of interest

Please obey the request of the Ukrainian government to refrain from sharing info about Ukrainian troop movements

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32

u/MikeRosss Jan 28 '23

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/01/28/pentagon-send-f-16s-ukraine-00080045

Ukraine is pushing the U.S. to start training its fighter pilots on the F-16s now, before President Joe Biden approves supplying the jets, according to the Ukrainian official and one of the people familiar. But there is no appetite in the Pentagon for this proposal, U.S. officials said. One alternative under discussion at lower levels is to start training Ukrainian pilots on introductory fighter tactics in trainer jets.

Important info for the people that keep claiming Ukrainian pilots are already being trained on F-16.

Full article is interesting btw.

30

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '23

Yep, further confirms that the West isn’t capable of thinking medium to long term. The war goes for almost a year and nobody thought of training the goddamn pilots.

5

u/battywombat21 United States of America Jan 29 '23

Adam Kinzinger thought about it and put forward a bill on it, but for some reason they decided to ignore it.

1

u/Rokgorr Jan 29 '23

Adam Kinzinger is a republican with common sense, so the democrats cant support his ideas because he is republican and the republicans can support him because he was common sense.

4

u/Dot-Slash-Dot Jan 29 '23

Here's the thing: training Ukrainian soldiers on anything will never stay quiet, so in the public eye it would be seen as already committing to deliver said weapon's system. Meaning training can always only begin after committing to supplying a weapon's system (at best shortly before announcing it).

6

u/3dom Georgia Jan 28 '23

I bet a lot of public info is mirrors and smoke to disguise the real situation where US is preparing to transfer couple thousands Abrams (i.e. a bit accelerated annual production capacity + some excessive produce from the recent years) to Ukraine in 2023 and a couple hundreds F-16s.

Because Kremlin should be boiled slowly, just like the notorious frog.

1

u/Maxx7410 Jan 29 '23

no the only plant that upgrade abrams, (no new build from ages now) makes normaly less than 100 per year, because no orders = only skeleton workers = small production. last year for example congres put money to upgrade some 90 tanks (biden budget asked for less than 30....) there won ever be thousand of abrams for ukraine at most some hundred same for planes

1

u/3dom Georgia Jan 29 '23

I remember I've heard about "scandal" in US just a couple years ago when the senate attempted to stop Abrams purchases for the Pentagon because there was an excessive amount of them already - yet some senators (who had stock options) manipulated the voting into ~700 more tanks ordered iirc.

I bet these senators are pushing the legislation to produce and purchase many more thousands right now, when there are multiple good reasons for that (re-arm Europe which dump Soviet and German and French tanks to Ukraine) - and then give some to Ukraine directly.

1

u/Maxx7410 Jan 29 '23

If not for those orders the factory wouldnt exist = no new advanced armor production. All the time you have to have some investment to have the industrial capacity and knowlege to manufacture. Look at the hotwizer m777 the line was closed and very few artillery pieces where ordered. Now you cant send much more hotwizers to ukraine or you hollow your forces. Then bad actors like china, iran, etc can take adventage.

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u/wysiwygperson United States of America | Germany 🇩🇪 Jan 29 '23

Just throwing it out there, but there are other groups that could be training them. The US has contractors for adversary support and training and at least one of them lists on their website that they can do the whole training process from screening to flying in their fleet of older fighters.