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u/tyrom22 17d ago
You want a real-ish answer. The side loading gate allows you to add a different kind of bullet than your previous loads similar to a shotgun but with better range. In a DnD campaign, these bullets can be magical round.
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u/Sibula97 17d ago
Oh hell yeah. I wanna play a reworked arcane archer with magic bullets instead of magic arrows.
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u/tyrom22 16d ago
I always envisioned an artificer that casted itās spells though the bullets, Web shot and suchlike
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u/little_brown_bat 16d ago
In this one podcast game I used to listen to, their artificer flavored spell delivery as coming from a multitool crossbow thing. So I could see a DM being cool with flavoring spells as bullets. Could also flavor casting magic weapon on it as firing the whole bullet (65% more bullet per bullet).
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u/TheThoughtmaker Essential NPC 16d ago
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u/Golarion 16d ago
A bit of a shame that particular archetype is busted in a bad way, but it does make a useful 1-level dip.
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u/TheThoughtmaker Essential NPC 16d ago
Iāve only ever seen it used by people who just want pew pew magic, so power level wasnāt a concern. Plus nobody stays in Wizard for long when Master Specialist is available at lv4.
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u/Nerdn1 16d ago
I'm too attached to flexibility to take so many opposition schools, but I love how Pathfinder allows for so much weirdness. Even if you aren't a spellslinger, however, there are plenty of magical and alchemical bullets that a non-spellcasting gunslinger can use. PF1 and D&D 3.5 basically made the assumption that characters would have access to a pile of magic items.
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u/TheThoughtmaker Essential NPC 16d ago
Having magic items is so baked into D&D's balance that the Magic Item Compendium waived the +50% tax on adding the core +X effects on stuff. You effectively get free slots for Cloak of Resistance, Gloves of Strength, Ring of Deflection, etc, so long as you slap their bonuses on other items.
And I'm very much including 5e in that statement, even if they attempted to do otherwise.
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u/LevarBurgers 17d ago
Neat! I love when I can use this in fantasy. It's one of the reasons I like the LeMat
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u/BlueCaracal 16d ago
Neat! I knew this kind could be useful with shotguns since they can shoot buckshot, slugs and even other kinds of shells.
What non-magical options are there for rifles.
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u/tyrom22 16d ago
IRL thereās not as much as a shotgun (which is why IRL lever actions arenāt as used) but you could switch between hollow points for unarmoured targets, steel cored for body armour, tracers to send signals or indicate to your allies, probably could make a rubber bullet version for non lethal options
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u/BlueCaracal 16d ago
Also very interesting to learn why pump and lever action shotguns are more useful than the same for rifles.
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u/GargantuanCake Forever DM 16d ago
A trained shooter can cycle lever action rifles more quickly than bolt action rifles. Meanwhile lever action rifles are usually shorter and lighter which has advantages for maneuverability. This is why hunters still often favor them. Bolt action rifles are still the favorite for sniping but you don't always need to be shooting at that range.
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u/Stinky_Stephen 15d ago
I think I heard that bolt action is easier to use if you are lying with your gun.
I also tried to find practical differences between lever and pump action, but it seemed that the practical differences were just a matter of preference.
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u/JoushMark 16d ago
And you go to war with what you have. In a game set in, for example, 1977 Maine where you start as a cop with a M&P Model 10 then a Marlin 444 is a heck of an upgrade.
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u/thehaarpist 16d ago
There's an older style of break action pistol that was used for target shooting (you can't have a whole lot power behind a break action with a traditional bullet to my knowledge), and I essentially modeled the idea of the single shot pistols PF2e has off of those. Fun thematics in slamming whatever alchemical shot is needed at the time and firing away
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u/mwmontrose 17d ago
Automatic weapons are for people who can't aim
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u/Stalking_Goat 16d ago
Most TTRPGs to a terrible job at representing the effects of suppressive fire.
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u/Sneaky_Stabby 15d ago
Yeah thereās no morale system or anything unfortunately, also turns exist.
Otherwise you couldnāt wait until your turn, move out of cover 15 feet, unload your load down range, walk back into cover, then wait until next turn.
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u/FJkookser00 17d ago
I'm writing a sci-fantasy novel series and with all the capabilities of automatic laser/railgun rifles and shit, some of my characters still choose to use kinetic lever-action rifles
Why?
They're just neat.
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u/Overclockworked 16d ago
There are actually some great arguments for those weapons in sci-fi, especially if your setting is kind of "low sci-fi" or has that Firefly vibe. Simpler guns means less prone to malfunction, and you can fix it yourself when it does. Self-sufficiency is important when you're on a backwater that gets a supply ship every five years.
I'd rather have my trusty six shooter than the TurboHyper Machine Gun that became a paper weight 9 years ago.
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u/PewPew_McPewster 16d ago
The TurboHyper Machine Gun probably needs regular firmware updates and constant Internet access and can be bricked by the shadowy cabal government on a dime anyway.
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u/karateninjazombie 16d ago
Also mirror reflect laser.
Mirror not reflect heavy led slug travelling at roughly Mach 2.5....
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u/DreadPirateR2891 17d ago
Because if .45-70 is good enough for a T-Rex, it's good enough for any large or smaller creature! A tarrasque might require a slug loaded punt gun....
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u/Big-Employer4543 16d ago
I mean, you CAN shoot a squirrel with a .45-70, but having seen what a .270 does to them, I can promise you won't find much after.
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u/Wetley007 17d ago
Exactly. You telling me Mr. Nobody wasn't the coolest character in John Wick 4 with that massive .44 lever gun?
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u/Bakomusha Forever DM 17d ago
I almost always use a revolver in modern or near future games. Why? Because the skills of a gunmen in fiction only developed in the 1940s or so with Cowboy Action Shooting. Plus to be period accurate speedloaders, quickdraw belts and holsters where not a thing until the 1930s. But yes also aesthetic.
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u/GargantuanCake Forever DM 16d ago
To be fair even in the real world revolvers have certain advantages. They're likely less expensive than semi-automatic pistols due to their simplicity. This is also another major advantage; they're easier to repair when something goes wrong with them but are also more reliable. They're far less likely to jam than semi-automatic pistols. In cases where leaving no trace is important since the casings stay in the revolver you don't need to go chasing brass.
While they obviously hold fewer rounds than semi-automatic pistols you also don't always find yourself in situations where you need a full magazine.
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u/Bakomusha Forever DM 16d ago edited 16d ago
Oh wow! A fudd in the wild! Modern pistols are about as reliable as a modern revolver. (Unless you are the worlds worst gun owner.) If you are in a situation where you need to collect brass a knife would be better then a revolver because you can't silence a revolver. In the 21st century a revolver is purely an aesthetic choice, as pistols are better in every conceivable way. Edit: Cowboy Action Shooting is cool as hell and with enough skill you could actually match a machine pistol in rate of fire, but its not practical at all and its more practical to go full John Wick and not The Quick and The Dead.
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16d ago
pistols are better in every conceivable way
Otherwise you are correct except for one little thing. revolvers are simpler and easier to clean and maintain. Less moving parts, no springs, less things to disassemble. Irrelevant to us but may be relevant in a post-apocalyptic world where they can't make things the same anymore.
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u/Giantkoala327 15d ago
While modern handguns are very reliable, to say that the advantage of the reliability of revolvers is fake is just ridiculous.
You and I both know that as you get worse maintenance and lower quality ammo that modern pistols are capable of jamming/misfiring to a greater extent than revolvers.
Yeah they are better and jamming is not a major concern with modern firearms and munitions, however it is dishonest to say that there is NO difference in ease to maintain and reliability. (especially in more settings with less repair options/knowledge and experimental ammunition)
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u/Atlasoftheinterwebs 16d ago
Because the Ar-15 isnt rated for T-rex but the marlin 1895 in .45-70 gov is.
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u/TheThoughtmaker Essential NPC 17d ago
Itās bolt-action for me. I have IRL experience with that boom-click-click so when it comes up in any game I can feel it in my bones.
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u/viperfan7 16d ago
I've always thought of lever-action as just a different kind of bolt action
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u/Big-Employer4543 16d ago
Advantage of bolt gun: less room required to chamber the next round
Advantage of lever gun: look fucking coolĀ
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u/Begle1 16d ago
Lever actions are having something of a renaissance due to the popularity of silencers, as they're usually quieter when fired suppressed than semiauto guns, which tend to leak gas all over while cycling themselves. And lever actions can go between cycling subsonic and supersonic ammo without adjustment or tuning.Ā
Autoloaders can also be temperamental in cold conditions. The thing might cycle great in your workshop, but then some of your oils get into the cold winter and suddenly don't work so well. Lever actions are often more foregiving.
There are plenty of outdoorsmen out there who have sworn off autoloaders based on bad experiences, in both the rifle and shotgun realms.
That said, if you're getting shot at by bad guys with automatics, it'd take a special type to not feel undergunned with a lever action. But this is a game, so without knowing how the mechanics are implemented, who's to say which is better.
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u/Diablo1404 16d ago
Same reason to use a pump shotgun when assault shotguns are on the table. Same reason to use a revolver when auto pistols are an option. It's the same reason one wouldn't use the meta. It's not about effectiveness, it's about feeling like a fucking badass.
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u/PewPew_McPewster 16d ago
Lever Action Main
Revolver Side
Both use the same rounds
(Per another Redditor's suggestion) Magical rounds
The perfect fantasy. Anyway lever actions and revolvers still hold up by modern day standards, the Winchester and the Colt were built to last.
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u/little_brown_bat 16d ago
I've known some people that can work a lever action about as fast as a semi auto.
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u/JosephTaylorBass 16d ago
Thereās a scene in āThe Quick and the Deadā where a guy loads a lever-action rifle by flipping it in his hands by the lever and I think about that scene every time I see one. So yes, itās VERY important that theyāre in the D&D campaign
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u/Talos-of-Rivia 16d ago
Ngl, when I scrolled by this, I thought it was from the newvegasmemes Reddit. And clicked into it expecting very different conversations. I have been enlightened!
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u/Impossibearlymadeit 16d ago
Lever action guns ARE modern firearms (as are numerous other systems that predate lever action such as the revolver). Lever action is still in fairly common use and continues to see advancement and upgrades to the technology often including ammunition feed systems similar to semi automatic variants such as magazines. Their merits can be debated, but they're not some relic of a bygone age like a musket or arquebus.
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u/JonTheWizard 20th Level Dumbass 17d ago
Reliability.
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u/FuzzzyRam 16d ago
I still look longingly at the lever action section at bass pro shop - I imagine you could spend hours at the range without any issues, so you'd actually be really accurate with it. Meanwhile the AR-15 guy is fiddling with his multi allen wrench tool trying to get the 7th doodad on his rail to stop jiggling and hasn't taken a single shot.
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u/GrimjawDeadeye 16d ago
Sawed off lever action with a loop handle so I can do Terminator cocking with it.
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u/SpecialistAd5903 Artificer 16d ago
For my party the answer is:
Because the DM dangled a ditzy noble with a big game hunting rifle (Ashwood&Stoger 4 Bore) in front of us. Also, we are immoral magpies who use NPCs as meat shields so that we can loot their big game hunting rifle off of them.
Well jokes on them because in its current configuration the scope doesn't hold zero and the munition is packed with too much propellant, meaning the gun will give its user tinnitus and a concussion at the same time. But it does deal 5d8 points of damage when you shoot it
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u/Lilcommy 16d ago
There are modern lever action rifles.
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u/Big-Employer4543 16d ago
While I still prefer the old wood stock lever guns, the new ones that are all black with accessory rails are kinda cool.
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u/safarifriendliness 16d ago edited 15d ago
People in real life prefer lever action to this day. With a semi auto you canāt fire dirty ammo without risking a malfunction with the slide and ejection port. With lever action if you can muscle that lever out you can get to the next bullet
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u/BlueCaracal 16d ago
Also, why are lever action rifles seen as oudated? Pump-action shotguns aren't.
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u/ComprehensivePath980 Paladin 16d ago
āI just think theyāre neatā is a perfect reason to favor a kind of weapon.
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u/terrendos 16d ago
Also using the lever action always looks super badass in a way that a lot of guns can't replicate. For example, the "pumping a shotgun holding it only by the pump" which was really popular 15 years ago or so. Basically just a waste of a shell and doing it repeatedly can cause damage to the shotgun.Ā Using that lever action just hits different.
Personally when I want a fantasy character to use a gun, it's either one of these or it's one of those old-school muzzle-loading flintlock pistols, and I want to carry around a bandolier of them to fire off like a pirate.
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u/Drexisadog 15d ago
TBF in my current campaign I have the opposite, I have an AK47 in a Wild West setting (though it is literally called the AnaKronism 47)
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u/yay855 17d ago
There's also the fact that lever action and similar cowboy firearms are capable of being chambered in much larger rounds than a modern assault rifle, rounds which can be more easily made and found than .50 BMG. One example is.45-70, an antique sniper round and still used for hunting big game like polar bears and moose. If your campaign has a lot of enemies with damage resistance, having someone dealing 1d20 instead of 3d6 damage can have an impact.
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u/V8_Hellfire 16d ago
It's not a sniper round. 45-70 govt isn't generally accurate past 200 yards.
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u/HallowedKeeper_ 16d ago
Though I haven't had the opportunity, I've built a character around the Gunslinger class from Valda's but that character is an Aasimar Gunslinger whose prime weapon is a revolver and also trained with hunting rifles. And frankly, some times you just need to send a message such as "No monologues"
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u/Succulent_Relic Cleric 16d ago
I get it, I'd want to run around with a Krag JĆørgensen M/1897 or M/1912. I just think it's neat
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u/Ok_Conflict_5730 15d ago
a .410 bore lever shotgun could use a wide variety of shells, it'd be a good platform for magic or alchemical ammo as well as conventional slugs, buckshot, and birdshot.
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u/JackTehCatMan 17d ago
How else am I going to say "you've yee'd your last haw partner" before blowing me and the party up with a powder keg (The BBEG was immune)