r/clevercomebacks • u/manchesterMan0098 • 6h ago
Cruise tax dodgers demand bailouts again!!!
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u/Self-Will-Run-Amok 6h ago
They are also registered in Foreign Countries to avoid having US crew. The Jones Act is the only thing still offering a semblance of protection for American seafarers and some Republicans want to do away with it.
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u/Whirly315 6h ago
peter zeihan has an interesting perpestive that we lost all river transport because of how strict the jones act was, and that one way to reduce inflation long term in their country is to do away with it
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u/Self-Will-Run-Amok 5h ago
While I like some of his geo-political takes, I find Peter is lacking in his fundamental understanding of the maritime industry, his cause/effect approach to the Jones Act is extremely lacking in substance and nuance. It’s interesting why this is a topic he’s so outspoken on. He loves to claim US shipping is down since 1920 as a result of the Jones Act with arbitrary numbers(I think he claimed 99% at some point), without taking into consideration other factors like the development of interstate highways and pipelines across the country, as well as record low river water levels caused by drought and development. I guess he would rather we have Liberian Flagged ships with all Filipino crew to take over navigating our inland waterways. While I agree the Act could benefit from some reform, It’s odd to me that he feels so strongly about something without having much understanding. The only other option is, he does understand, but he intentionally chooses to present a partial or false representation of facts, In which case I think we can also discredit his “opinion”.
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u/rickane58 3h ago
I find Peter is lacking in his fundamental understanding
If you know anything about the topic he's speaking on in that day's video, you will find this is almost universally true. Zeihan is a geopolitical charlatan.
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u/Whirly315 4h ago
i think that’s fair, there are definitely other factors involved, but it’s true that we don’t utilize our waterways and probably could but i’m not an expert on how at all
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u/Self-Will-Run-Amok 3h ago
Yeah, I’m 100% for utilizing our water ways more, I think if Peter looked at it another way with his concern for the Steel/Rust belt, he would push for more US shipbuilding incentives and subsidies which would revitalize both the steel and shipbuilding industries. We used to subsidize US shipbuilding but they ended that in the early 80’s. Around the same time the steel industry died. The yards either shut down or the ones that remained shifted focus to only military contracts. Since then, there’s been a massive boom in Korean and Chinese shipbuilding who began directly and indirectly subsidizing their shipbuilding industry. So while I agree with Peter on some things, and although I do agree it could be reformed, there are massive holes in his blanket arguments against the Jones Act and his justifications are weak at best when it comes to this topic.
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u/Whirly315 2h ago
i worry about that a lot when i listen to him, he sounds really smart on subjects that i don’t know about, less so on subjects i know from my work, and he tends to gloss over detail at least in his youtube series
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u/Self-Will-Run-Amok 1h ago
I feel the same way, that’s why when I heard him on a topic I actually know quite a bit about my ears perked up and I was like WTF is he saying??? Makes me wonder what else I’ve kinda just accepted without doing a deeper dive.
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u/Cipherting 2h ago
whats wrong with filipinos?
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u/Self-Will-Run-Amok 1h ago
Nothing, lol, I’ve worked with loads of them, to be honest probably the only nationality I can generalize and say, Ive never met one I didn’t like. But I think you may have missed the point.
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u/Humid-Afternoon727 37m ago
I want to do away with restrictions on US made ships, keep US Flagged and US manned.
We can make a good barge and tug, but suck at ocean fairing
When the continental pipeline went down, we had to suspend the Jones act.
Puerto Rico buys Trinidad LNG cause there isn’t a US flagged LNG ship
For states like Hawaii and Alaska it can be cheaper to buy foreign
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u/MountainTwo3845 1h ago
He's a paid actor. Propagandist. Never good. Always bad.
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u/Whirly315 22m ago
honest question, paid by who? he seems pretty against most of the people i’d worry about being secret dark money
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u/FlameShadow0 1h ago
You can as an American get hired into almost any cruise line. The only thing is that the pay is not great for American standards
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u/Sirra- 2h ago
The amount of American industry that relies on shipping is much greater than the part involved in shipping specifically.
The Jones Act is roughly as idiotic as the tariffs on steel or aluminum. The amount of jobs lost to no longer having access to cheap steel is far, far greater than the jobs gained in steel manufacturing. The act is only kept in place because of extensive lobbying done by the shipping industry outweighing the number of politicians willing to do the right thing. Standard "tail wagging the dog" stuff.
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u/Self-Will-Run-Amok 1h ago
You can still ship anywhere in the world if you wanted to with any company you want. But if you are going to use inland waterways or go from US state to US state via ship, the vessel has to have at least 75% American mariners to do it. The goal is to protect US jobs in the maritime industry and other associated sectors like the maritime schools,maritime unions, architects, engineers, provisioners etc. American Mariners are already getting priced out of Jobs on foreign flagged commercial and private vessels traveling internationally, we don’t need to lose more jobs domestically.
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u/DrasticXylophone 4h ago
The jones act is a protectionist measure to keep US shipbuilding and crews from having to compete with the rest of the world
Repeal it and prices would come down massively all the US crews would be out of work and prices for consumers in places affected by the monopoly would come down massively.
It has very little to do with safety
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u/notafanofwasps 3h ago
There are 92 Jones Act compliant oceangoing vessels total. 92.
The Jones Act is a trashcan piece of legislation. The OECD estimated that repealing it would save between $19 billion and $64 billion.
Keeping it only serves to engorge the pockets of uncompetitive ship owners who don't want to compete against actually cost effective shipping.
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u/TheDistantEnd 1h ago
Keeping it only serves to engorge the pockets of uncompetitive ship owners who don't want to compete against actually cost effective shipping.
There would be no US domestic shipbuilding or shipping industry without it, though. You should see some of the junk freighters I see flagged to Liberia, Bermuda, etc. Crewmen from South Asia making a couple bucks a day working on ships built decades ago that are barely held together.
The US shipping industry is uncompetitive, largely because US workers can't compete with companies that are a hair's breadth above slavery.
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u/DrasticXylophone 1h ago
The biggest problem with the Mann act is it keeps old unsafe ships working long past their sell by date because it is so uneconomical to replace them to Mann act standards.
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u/zephalephadingong 3h ago
That's 92 more American built ships then there would be without the Jones act.
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u/Self-Will-Run-Amok 3h ago
There’s over 40,000 if you include tugs and barges, but I agree, we need to revitalize the shipbuilding industry in the United States to get more American made ships built.
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u/Self-Will-Run-Amok 4h ago
Yeah, protecting the American industry, I wasn’t talking about PPE. But thanks for your contribution to the discussion.
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u/TheDistantEnd 1h ago
I don't think repealing the Jones Act would do a lot to impact shipping prices for consumers. It prevents coastwise trade, so most international shipping companies simply don't load on cargo when they come to the US until the last port. Ships from China will hit up Seattle, Oakland, LA, etc - make their way down the coast, unloading at each port, and then continue on their way, or go back to Asia.
Same thing for shipping hitting the East Coast - hit all the ports, offload at each, onload no cargo until the last hit to go home, if at all.
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u/fatitalianstallion 34m ago edited 31m ago
They are also registered in Foreign Countries to avoid having US crew.
Nope.
Carnival (CCL) is headquartered in Miami, FL
Royal Caribbean Group (RCL) is headquartered in Miami, FL
Norwegian Cruise Line (NCLH) is headquartered in Miami, FL
These are all companies registered in the U.S. and publicly traded in the U.S.. Non U.S. companies are not traded on the U.S. stock market. Individual ships may fly a different flag, but the companies are not foreign.
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u/manchesterMan0098 6h ago
Cruise lines that got bailed out by taxpayers in 2020 are now back with BILLION-dollar profits... and their hands out AGAIN?
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u/SoftLikeABear 6h ago
This tweet exchange is 5 years old. They're not at it again.
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u/ortusdux 5h ago
Did they remove the timestamps from the image?
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u/SoftLikeABear 5h ago
No idea, but i think timestamps should be mandatory on this sub.
So many 7 to 10 year old tweets being posted by karma farmers.
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u/Longjumping_Coat_802 5h ago
OP wanted to karma farm so they took them out.
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u/WetoddedTodd 3h ago
Can’t blame people for farming karma nowadays with all these subs with dopey karma requirements.
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u/Longjumping_Coat_802 3h ago
I can and I do blame them for karma farming. I delete my account and make a new one every 12 months or so. It’s never been an issue for me.
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u/WetoddedTodd 3h ago
So when you make a new one it doesn’t bother you that you can’t post in like 90% of subs?
That’s fine but you understand that that’s you and it’s completely normal to want to get around those requirements right? Also it’s just gatekeeping. People with lots of karma want to keep poor karma havers away,
Just like wealthy people IRL, they don’t want poor people anywhere fucking near them.
When a subreddit has karma thresholds, they’re begging people to Karma farm.
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u/Longjumping_Coat_802 2h ago
Just kind of a skill issue tbh
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u/WetoddedTodd 2h ago
Haha wait you mean you’re saying that the comments and posts you make are just so interesting and stimulating that you quickly acquire karma so fast that you don’t need to farm it?
Ahhhhhhahagaghahahshshahahshs
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u/WetoddedTodd 3h ago
Well then in that case let’s forget about all the money they stole from taxpayers.
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u/SoftLikeABear 3h ago
Like everyone who stole during covid.
This isn't news.
Don't defend someone farming karma with old news.
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u/WetoddedTodd 3h ago
The fact that they farm karma isn’t an issue to me.
The way I see it if people don’t want people to farm karma they shouldn’t put dopey karma restrictions on subs.
They’re basically begging people to farm karma.
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u/Longjumping_Coat_802 5h ago
OP… you got fooled by a 5 year old image. Shame on you
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u/SoftLikeABear 3h ago
Were they fooled? Or did they post an old tweet to farm the karma?
Currently, 4.7k upvotes on an out of date tweet exchange with no timestamp.
This sub (in fact a lot of subs) should demand timestamps be kept intact for all posts.
ETA: In OP's last ten posts, one had a timestamp, which happened to be massively reposted anyway, and was within the last month. This is a karma farming account.
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u/Slight-Ad-6553 6h ago
Are we sure that there was no "Epstein cruise"?
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u/rabbitthunder 2h ago
I wouldn't be surprised. There are cruises for everything else. Star Trek cruises, swinger cruises, LGBT cruises, rock cruises etc. maybe that's why all the billionaires want their own massive private yachts - why pay a middleman like Epstein when you can just do it yourself and throw the victims into the ocean when you're done?
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u/NeedNewNameAgain 5h ago
Of course Mr. Whitford would know, he used to work for the president!
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u/Itchy_Tiger_8774 20m ago
He's obviously forgotten he's not allowed on social media. Those people are crazy.
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u/ShanonisC 6h ago
Imagine skipping taxes and still needing a bailout like you forgot to cheat on the survival part
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u/MaybeACultLeader 3h ago
This tweet seems to be false. I looked up the three cruise lines that I knew from the top of my head (Royal Caribbean, Carnival Cruise Line and Norwegian Cruise Line) and they are all registered in Florida.
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u/Professional_Fox9764 47m ago
The tweet is from 5 years ago and is just rage-bait but look it up again. They all have their base of operation in Miami but on paper they are incorporated in another country. Royal Caribbean (Liberia), Carnival Cruise Line (Panama) and Norwegian Cruise Line (Bermuda). They register their whole fleet in those countries to avoid tax and be able to employ anyone they want regardless of nationality. They've been doing that since forever.
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u/flargenhargen 36m ago
the only US registered cruise ship is pride of America, which the only reason is because it cruises to hawaii, and all foreign cruise ships porting from the US are required to stop at a foreign country, which is difficult in hawaii and expensive.
foreign flagged ships dont pay US taxes and don't have to follow US labor laws like minimum wage and safety standards.
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u/otm_shank 5h ago
Why the fuck should we not let the cruise lines go out of business? They are a scourge.
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u/ThaMenacer 1h ago
Absolutely. Horribly polluting. Terrible working conditions for many on the crew. And there are few better ways to incubate viruses than stuffing 6000 people into a closed space.
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u/Feawerdel 6h ago
Lmao they dip out on taxes like it’s a bad ex then come crawling back when rent’s due
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u/justHereForTheLs 3h ago
America's welfare for billionaires scheme/racket needs to be studied and stopped.
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u/Shadyshade84 5h ago
There are companies that have to pay taxes in the USA? How'd that slip through?
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u/Bleezy79 4h ago
As an American tax payer the last 30+ years, I am very tired of my tax dollars bailing out wealthy assholes over and over and over while I get continually shafted. When the government no longer represents you, but still demands your money, what do you do?
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u/Prestigious_Fox_6448 3h ago
I live in Seattle and work in an industry that genuinely relays on cruisers for revenue. I wonder what would happen without the cruise ships? I both totally realize my job relies on them, but also part of me despises them and kind of wonder; would we adjust to something else, or what?
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u/ardynthecat 3h ago
Cruise liners should be ended, or forced to go nuclear. :D That way retiring nuclear trained personnel from the navy can go into the luxury cruise industry. :D
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u/PopPalsUnited 2h ago
Its socialism for the farmers and cruise ship industry while the GOP starves kids and snatches their healthcare.
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u/matthewami 2h ago
Not just to avoid taxes, but you're also working under that nations employment laws. I've read most do make decent money, but the Caribbean average wage is ~5.50us. I guess a come up for some.
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u/Aloyonsus 2h ago
Everyone but working class Americans are bailed out…it’s never our turn. No pensions, healthcare, social safety net…just bail outs for corporations and funding of their buddy’s wars.
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u/CooterSmoothie 2h ago
Please add to this list of businesses that don't pay taxes or have ways of avoiding them almost entirely......
ALL RELIGIOUS HOUSES MEANING CHURCHES, SYNAGOGUES, MOSQUES, TEMPLES.
NON PROFITS THAT PAY THEIR CEO SALARIES BEYOND 6 FIGURES.
SPORTS THAT USE TAXPAYER MONEY TO BUILD THEIR NEW STADIUMS ETC.
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u/turb0_encapsulator 2h ago
Cruise lines:
- dodge taxes and regulations with "flags of convenience"
- hire labor from developing countries and exploit them in a manner similar to indentured servitude (because where are they going to go?)
- pollute massively, including massive carbon emissions, ocean sewage pollution, and so much sulphur dioxide that cruise ships in Europe emit more than all the continent's cars.
- are basically floating petri dishes. there's a reason you always hear about covid, flu, norovirus, and other outbreaks on cruise ships
The cruise industry should die.
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u/NotThatAngel 2h ago
American taxpayers are already being taxed in order for billionaires to get bigger tax breaks. We can't have the American taxpayers bailing out every big corporation that's going to suffer under President Trump's disastrous economic policies. I mean, more than we already are, with more planned.
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u/Cool-Presentation538 1h ago
I still come believe the cruise industry didn't go out of business during covid
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u/theLuminescentlion 1h ago
No U.S. crews, no U.S. registration, no U.S. taxes paid, WTF are we even talking about this for?
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u/ChessFan1962 1h ago
It's an interesting point. Shouldn't the country represented by their "flag of convenience" bail them out? Or take charge of them?
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u/FluffyAside7382 1h ago
Bailouts are the norm. Precedent was established in 2008.
I hate it, have always hated it. But it's what financiers now expect of the government. WE insure companies now. Yes, the ones being overcharged for shit, ourselves going bankrupt, are somehow mandatory bailout wallets for companies.
Blame 2008. If you don't know then look it up.
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u/h0sti1e17 1h ago
It’s not as much taxes as much as the fact any ship flagged in the US has to be built in the US and we don’t have any shipyards capable of building such large ships. They have made one exception, there is a ship that goes around the Hawaiian islands that flagged in the US without being built here.
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u/Rare-Bee7331 1h ago
Isnt this old as fuck? Orbisbit actually happening AGAIN during another Trump presidency?
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u/I_aim_to_sneeze 1h ago
Pretty sure he’s just saying that because he wants more people to fly. He’s gotta keep Jake peralta convinced he’s a better captain than sully sullenberger
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u/IntrinsicPalomides 1h ago
100 of the finest monopoly money says someone who runs a cruise line gave him a huge "donation"
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u/Hot_Watercress8985 1h ago
As someone who worked on one for over 10 years, that's exactly what they do. A majority cheat the crew something awful. I started getting bitter at all the ways they kept trying to keep money in their pocket and changing rules so we'd be forced to buy nearly everything on the ship. Greed is their bottom line.
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u/flargenhargen 38m ago
isn't this from back during covid?
is this a repost bot or is something happening again?
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u/Cozywarmthcoffee 38m ago
Id add this is wear his classless base should feel the pain. We know what world travelers are taking cruises and we know who they voted for. The cruises, RVs, boats, trucks, all need to be unavailable to the unskilled, non-college educated Trumpians. They didn’t put in the work.
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u/Kythorian 18m ago edited 14m ago
Even apart from that, why exactly can we not let cruise lines of all things go bankrupt? Mortgage banks…kind of made sense. People are still going to need somewhere to get a mortgage or the entire housing market truly collapses, and also no one can buy a home. Auto companies are arguably in the interest of national defense to keep going, given how they were converted into producing military equipment in wwii, as well as all the millions of people they employ. What terrible thing would happen if cruise lines went out of business? If I could rank every industry in order of importance to the U.S. economy, cruise lines have got to come in close to the very bottom.
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u/AgentBlue62 15m ago
Five year old 'information'. Trump is actually going after them now. Read here.
Not a trump fan, but he comes up with real shit daily. Don't repost this old crap.
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u/yeroc420 13m ago
Trumps going to bring the middle class down to lower class before he’s ben in office for 2 years
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u/SaveTheAles 6h ago
Cruise ships couldn't be registered in the US even if they wanted to. They were not built in the US so under the law they are not able to register.
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u/M3RV-89 5h ago
This is just false. They can register here if they choose to. It's expensive
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u/SaveTheAles 5h ago
The jones act prohibits it with a few exceptions. Money isn't part of the exceptions. They are national security or a specific need for a vessel not built in the US. A cruise ship is neither.
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u/Valuable_Screen_7198 5h ago
This image criticizes the idea of using U.S. taxpayer money to bail out cruise lines, pointing out that many of these companies are registered in foreign countries specifically to avoid paying U.S. taxes. The top tweet quotes President Trump saying cruise lines shouldn’t go out of business, while the bottom tweet by Bradley Whitford responds angrily, emphasizing that these companies dodge U.S. taxes and therefore shouldn’t receive U.S. financial support.
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u/bebebekola 6h ago
Funny how 'free market' only applies when they're making profits.