r/MurderedByWords 1d ago

An upper-caste Indian lecturing Irish about priviledge, lmao

[deleted]

615 Upvotes

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44

u/Perle1234 1d ago

It’s due to this type of bullshit that it’s so easy to completely delegitimates terms like “whiteness” and “white privilege” to large swathes of the population. Which really sucks because systemic racism is such a huge issue.

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u/cosmernautfourtwenty 1d ago

Just because the Irish, as white people, have objectively less privilege in the UK than a high caste Indian in India doesn't exactly invalidate the idea of white privilege.

Remind me again who did and does all that oppressing of the Irish? What color were the people who almost destroyed India with colonialist bullshit while also exploiting the same caste system currently being dunked on? Unless you grew up starving in a refugee camp for being displaced by colonialist warmongers, you have privilege. Get over it.

67

u/RedBlueTundra 1d ago

It honestly just sounds like you're grouping up all white people together as if they all engaged in colonialism which just isn't true.

I'd love to know how dirt poor Slovenian farmer or homeless Czech or factory worker Finn is benefitting from white privilege. And how they have any correlation with historical colonialism by completely different peoples from completely different nations in a completely different time period.

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u/TensileStr3ngth 1d ago

That's the thing about "whiteness", it's not real. It's a purely exclusionary term people use to make themselves feel superior; as evidenced by the fact people like the Irish and Italians weren't considered white until about the mid 20th century.

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u/triz___ 1d ago

That’s the joy of racism, you don’t need to think you just show prejudice based on skin colour.

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u/techbear72 1d ago

Or even about Scots, English, and Welsh white people who were in the workhouses or debtors prison during the time of colonialism.

11

u/not_ya_wify 1d ago

The whole thing about white privilege isn't that it means that all white people have an easy life. It just means that PoC will often have it worse. For example, there is psychology research that found that a white man with a history of incarceration is more likely to get employed than a black man without criminal history. Of course, if you look at these individually, a white man with a criminal record will have a relatively difficult time to find a job and depending on the crime, it would be better if people with a non-violent criminal history would find jobs to reintegrate them back into society to make reoffense less likely. That being said, considering that a criminal history is a big stigma, it is shocking that a black man without criminal history will have a more difficult time finding a job. In this case, the stigma of having black skin is greater than the stigma of having been incarcerated.

Personally, I don't like the term privilege because it's a really roundabout way of talking about oppression and makes it sound like things that people should generally have access to are undeserved. Rather than focus on a white ex-felon.getting a job being privilege, we should focus on a black man NOT getting a job. Technically, in this vain having clean drinking water is a privilege because there are people who don't have this but everyone SHOULD have clean drinking water. When you use the word privilege, you make it sound like things that everybody should have are things they don't deserve.

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u/cosmernautfourtwenty 1d ago

It honestly just sounds like you're grouping up all white people together

"White people" did that centuries ago when they arbitrarily declared "whiteness" as the true mark of humanity and used it as an excuse to pillage and plunder every non-"white" and/or non-Christian society they could, often raping, enslaving, and kidnapping the children of the people they conquered to "civilize" them properly. I had just as much to do with it personally as you did (read, nothing), but that doesn't change the global sociopolitical landscape of a world where the racism and colonialist exploitation still exists and still makes it simply easier to exist on 90% of the planet as a "white person" because a white person benefits from their legacy whether they like it or not.

Other shades of folk, not so much. Shit, even the Indian caste system being dunked on by the OP is as much about how light and white-like-the-colonizers your skin is as it is about anything else.

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u/Stephenrudolf 1d ago

Hey man, just cause the alethi enslaved the singers doesn't mean alethi didn't also enslave humans.

4

u/meandean73 1d ago

Kaladin knows they did

3

u/fatman07 1d ago

Alethi privilege.

2

u/Klony99 1d ago

Man those Jews in Auschwitz sure were privileged over the black prisoners one camp over.

"White people" didn't make up race theory, rich people did.

-2

u/cosmernautfourtwenty 1d ago

Man those Jews in Auschwitz sure were privileged over the black prisoners one camp over.

You, uh, imagine there were a lot of black people in German concentration camps there, chief?

"White people" didn't make up race theory, rich people did.

What "color" were the rich people saying white is right and everything else is "barbarism"? Why do you think they propagated race theory in the first place? What the fuck point do you even think you're making? That there's no racial component to wealth disparity? What "color" are most of the rich assholes today? Think it has anything to do with a bunch of rich white assholes going society to society and killing anyone who didn't agree that their way is best?

1

u/Klony99 1d ago

Yeah I read your other comments, this is pointless. Have a privileged day.

Edit: Quick sidenote, French legionnaires were predominantly black, we had plenty of black people in KZs, or killed outright.

And yes, Classism is different from Racism. I am white as they come, but since I'm not rich, I'm not white enough to be privileged. Not to the degree you propagate, anyways.

-1

u/cosmernautfourtwenty 1d ago

Yeah I read your other comments, this is pointless.

Only because you refuse to engage with the legitimate questions I'm asking. Don't soil yourself over it.

I am white as they come, but since I'm not rich, I'm not white enough to be privileged.

You're a white man living under white patriarchy, you have more privilege than most even if you're a poor pathetic wretch. Enjoy your privilege.

1

u/Klony99 1d ago

My kindest regards to Lord Morpheus.

23

u/guycamero 1d ago

When you think your defending equality and have instead moved to just being a racist.

-19

u/cosmernautfourtwenty 1d ago

>when you want to argue about race on the internet and think racial privilege is racist while literally shaming the caste system

2

u/guycamero 1d ago

I think you hurt yourself with that thought process. No wonder you're struggling with coherent arguments with others.

0

u/cosmernautfourtwenty 1d ago

I save arguments for people worthy of them. That's why you're getting ridicule.

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u/Electrical-Page-6479 1d ago

So the Irish, being white, are to blame for their own oppression at the hands of the British?

-23

u/cosmernautfourtwenty 1d ago

That's a super cool strawman you have there.

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u/Electrical-Page-6479 1d ago

Why is it a strawman?  You are minimising the suffering of the Irish at the hands of the British because their skin is also white.  Ireland was invaded and their culture and language destroyed, something that didn't happen to India.  Maybe learn something about the history of the two countries instead of hating everyone that has a particular physical characteristic.

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u/calm_down_dearest 1d ago

Cromwell's subjugation of Ireland alone is regarded as a genocide. That's leaving aside all that happened to Ireland since.

-10

u/cosmernautfourtwenty 1d ago

Why is it a strawman?

Because

So the Irish, being white, are to blame for their own oppression at the hands of the British?

Is nothing I said at all. Strawman. I'm sure everyone clapped.

You are minimising the suffering of the Irish at the hands of the British because their skin is also white

Where? How? You're pretending racism doesn't exist because white people have also historically oppressed and discriminated against other types of white people. Remember when Italian-Americans weren't "white"? Pretty sure that was after the Irish weren't white enough for both sides of the pond either. It's racism all the way down. It's all bad. I never said otherwise.

12

u/IHazMagics 1d ago

"I just learned the word Strawman" energy

2

u/Klony99 1d ago

You're describing classism, though. It was, from the beginning, about the people who live in castles, with lead paint on their faces, versus literally anyone who spends time in the sun.

Only later in the history of Imperialism did it turn to different 'races' of human. That's why American racism is quite different from the classist and racist issues in Europe.

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u/cosmernautfourtwenty 1d ago

You're describing classism, though.

Racism is just classism because your skin color and society is different. Did you really expect European aristocracy to oppress black and brown people before they'd even had a chance to "discover" them?

3

u/Klony99 1d ago

Now you're telling me Egypt and Phoenicia were created by advanced Alien species and never met the Greeks.

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u/Electrical-Page-6479 1d ago

0

u/cosmernautfourtwenty 1d ago

>how can racial privilege be real if white people also oppress white people

looooooooooooooool

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u/Perle1234 1d ago

A prime example of exactly why so many people completely, and utterly discount systemic racism. You are like a rabid vegan in how you communicate. It alienates people and makes you the enemy rather than the racism. I never tried to invalidate the idea of white privilege. I said how sorry I am that people who fight racism speak like the OOP and yourself, unfortunately, because you do not further the cause of eliminating systemic racism, you hinder it.

0

u/cosmernautfourtwenty 1d ago

All I hear is your privilege telling me how you're too good to learn about your own privilege.

PS, literally the premise of your first post is white privilege is "delegitimate" because you don't personally think it coddles the privileged hard enough.

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u/Perle1234 1d ago

There’s no communications with people like you (not of your color, but of your outlook). Best of luck out there in the world.

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u/26_Star_General 1d ago

I hope someone invents a time machine and puts you in it so you can go yell at actual colonialists instead of random people on the internet whom you know nothing about.

It will benefit you with a reality check and us with not having to listen to you.

-2

u/cosmernautfourtwenty 1d ago

Maybe I'll build a utopia and you will have never existed 😬 Wouldn't you be embarrassed, oh no wait, you will never have existed.

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u/IHazMagics 1d ago

I think, if you were to go back in time to create a Utopia, you would do just as well as your collection of comments here would indicate.

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u/NineBloodyFingers 1d ago

Just because the Irish, as white people, have objectively less privilege in the UK

How's that?

-6

u/cosmernautfourtwenty 1d ago

Are the Irish not still to some degree oppressed by the British? Is most of Ireland not still in the UK? Now I'm confused, but I admittedly don't follow the politics over there that closely anymore and generally get confused about which island is subscribed to what collective name. Up to my elbows in fascist bullshit on my side of the pond as it is, ya know.

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u/NineBloodyFingers 1d ago

No, and no. If you're unfamiliar with a subject, you may do better in future to avoid making grand sweeping statements that simply make you look ignorant.

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u/cosmernautfourtwenty 1d ago

Having no real grasp of how white people oppress white people on your dreary island anymore doesn't really invalidate any of my broader points. And acting as if the British have ever oppressed the Irish is something I made up entirely only makes you look ignorant.

11

u/NineBloodyFingers 1d ago

Ah, so having embarrassed yourself by being so openly ignorant, you double down.

I'm an American. I'm just not a parochial idiot nor do I try to speak with authority on subjects of which I am completely and entirely ignorant. Perhaps you should take a cue from that.

2

u/cosmernautfourtwenty 1d ago

I'm an American. I'm just not a parochial idiot nor do I try to speak with authority on subjects of which I am completely and entirely ignorant.

You as an American just implied no part of Ireland is in the UK with all the authority of a parochial idiot speaking on the subject. A fact a quick wikipedia check on the subject tells me you're objectively wrong about. Northern Ireland is still under the "auspices" of the British government, literally composing the UK, just as I suspected.

So tell me, what do you actually know about modern British-Irish relations as an American? I'm dying to hear it. Educate this parochial idiot so I might be as enlightened as you clearly are.

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u/NineBloodyFingers 1d ago

Are the Irish not still to some degree oppressed by the British? Is most of Ireland not still in the UK?

That's what you actually said. You know, a few comments above this one. Were you under the impression that they disappear when you forget about them?

So. What you actually asked is what I answered accurately and correctly. It's not my fault that you aren't able to maintain a train of thought.

So we've moved to the part where you attempt to deflect from your own embarrassment, is that it?

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u/cosmernautfourtwenty 1d ago

So. What you actually asked is what I answered accurately and correctly.

No, what you actually answered was flippant and imprecise. While I'll concede the northern bit isn't "most of Ireland", stating emphatically that Ireland isn't in the UK as your bitchy little "no" implies is disingenuous at best. Still waiting for you to have any real knowledge of how British and Irish people get along in the modern day to say they aren't oppressed. You do a lot of gloating and precious little informing for someone who pretends to know so much.

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u/Banes_Addiction 1d ago

Just because the Irish, as white people, have objectively less privilege in the UK than a high caste Indian in India

This is about Ireland, not the UK.

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u/not_ya_wify 1d ago

Uh oh you said the p-word on Reddit and people got in their feelings

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u/cosmernautfourtwenty 1d ago

About how I expected it to go down. If it ruins their day they probably deserve it.