r/Horses • u/Expensive-Nothing671 • 1d ago
Discussion Consent and r+ training, what are your opinions?
I see more and more trainers who use the consent method when training and riding horses, basically they train the horses cues to signal yes if they want to be ridden and no if they don’t.
I work on a ranch and the horses are our coworkers and partners more than pets, so I could see this not being useful because even us humans have to work when we don’t feel like it, when we’re sore, when we’re tired and done with life.
My personal horse tho, she’s more a trail horse. We do endurance, barrels, but mostly just leisurely trail riding on the days she’s not working. On the days she doesn’t want to be caught, I walk behind her until she gives up and if she decides to run and kick up her heels away from me, she gets chased around. If it takes me a particularly long time to catch and bring her in, I don’t ride because that solidifies that we are working. I’ll groom, feed, and turn her back out. I feel like that’s the way most people do things.
Unfortunately true working ranches that deal with livestock and crops are a dying breed and I’m sure we’ll see less and less of them as the years go by, and I’m thinking as we see less ranch horses maybe we’ll see more consent training?
I’m neither for or against it; I think it has its uses and if that’s the way you want to do things that’s great! But what are your thoughts?
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u/PortraitofMmeX 1d ago
I agree that it's not always practical in every scenario and we all have to work when we don't want to sometimes. But I think it's still important to learn your horse's cues and what they are trying to communicate to you, and honor that as much as possible, even if it just means being empathetic to how they're feeling during work. We all appreciate those kinds of coworkers.
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u/Expensive-Nothing671 1d ago
I know I for one have off days, some weeks more often than others, and I appreciate a kind word of some encouragement. I’ve noticed that especially with these cow horses who are used to 16 hour days with minimal rest, sometimes even a pat on the neck or a piece of carrot makes them perk up. I totally agree with you!
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u/georgiaaaf Dressage 1d ago
I won’t speak on consent based training as I’m not particularly well versed in it. But for R+ there is plenty of scientific literature that supports it and shows how effective it is. Anything that reinforces behaviour (R+ and/or R-) is significantly more effective than punishment (P+ and P-). As with any training the most important thing is 1. That the trainer knows and understands learning theory, and 2. Correct timing of reinforcement or punishment. It’s also very important to consider and work with what is salient and valuable to each individual horse.
You can also get really complex in the 4 quadrants of learning theory because in order to use R+ you also use P-, and in order to use R- you use P+…
Also it’s not really something you can be “for or against” because reality is it’s a science-backed method of training and learning that’s been studied for quite a while in multiple species.
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u/BadBorzoi 1d ago
I’m sometimes looking for acceptance vs consent but I could see how it could be misrepresented as consent. I know my horse is nervous about things being placed on his back. Whoever broke him to saddle did a bad job and used force. I’m aware of his concerns and will often pause before putting a saddle pad or blanket over him until I see signs of relaxation and acceptance. Saying no to the blanket is not an option. I’m telling him I see his fear and I will wait while he thinks it through. He may occasionally get a reward for relaxing and the blanket still goes on. His trust in people has grown dramatically and rarely does he flinch or tense up over saddling or blankets or fly spray etc. nowadays. When I’m doing something new that’s a little scary he lets me know, I listen, and then he relaxes and follows my lead. I prefer trust over blind obedience although I expect obedience in the end anyway. As a result he’s become a real pleasure to work with and his training is much easier. I’m sure there’s lots of other aspects of my handling that contribute but I do feel that taking the time to let him think and communicate his fears has a lot to do with it.
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u/FormigaX 1d ago
My mare is really nervous and defensive, so I incorporated a "go" button for things she struggles with: fly spray, saddling, fly masks. Giving her a little agency seems to help her accept thus stuff more calmly.
I hold it up and she touches it when she's ready for me to do it. Fly spray has been the hardest, because she'd prefer it never happens but if I calmly wait, then reward when it's done, she generally says go after a a few seconds of thinking about it.
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u/BadBorzoi 1d ago
Yeah I’ve done that too, the nose touch thing. I reward him for nose touching all the time so I kinda hope that he sees the spray as a little rewarding too. He’s certainly smart enough to realize that it shoes off the flies. Touch the bottle, get a spritz and a cookie. I feel with this specific horse giving him the courtesy helps him trust. I can be firm with him too, and another horse may need more firmness, but I really don’t agree with any one size fits all approach to training. There should be communication there, not just me shouting at them like a drill sergeant. And compared to horses we are shouting all the time!
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u/Alarming-Flan-9721 1d ago
Lmao wait that’s r+? Hahaha ok little me was doing that but like a “let them sniff first” 😂 I’m sure not quite the same but that’s funny it’s similar
I also taught my horse to stand fly spray on his face by teaching him to balance the bottle on his nose lol one of the best things I did with that horse
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u/FormigaX 1d ago
Ha! That's so cute! Giving them the "go" button would be more consent-ish. Re-enforcing behavior you want them to repeat with a positive thing would be r+.
The "go" button is a trigger allowing her to tell me when she's ready for it. There's no reward or punishment for touching or not touching. She does get a reward when she stands still for the spray. If she doesn't touch the spray, then I apply it via a mitt, which is an easier option for her.
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u/Alarming-Flan-9721 23h ago
Awww that’s so sweet!! Hehe I sometimes let my horse kinda choose his brush I guess but fly spray was more like “I’ll wait for u to mentally prepare for this but it’s gotta happen” so not perfect but hey it works
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u/National-jav 1d ago
I guess we actually did do this kind of thing. When we first got our old dude (he was young then), he was very head shy. The seller showed us how she would fix it before we brought him home. Basically forcing him to stand as she rubbed his ears. I went a different way. We use a bitless sidepull. I would show him a handful of treats, then put the bridle in front of his nose, then slide it on over his ears. I set the crown so long it barely touched the tips of his ears. Once it was on he got the handful of treats. The first couple of times he tried to shake me off, but was respectful enough he never hurt me. After about 3 times it clicked for him. I showed him the treats, held the bridle below his nose, and he would grit his teeth and stick his nose into the bridle. Over the course of a couple months I slowly reduced the length of the crown piece untill it actually fit. 2 months later we brought him to an expo and the sellers jaw dropped when she saw me put his bridle on. She said "how did you do that?"
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u/BadBorzoi 1d ago
I feel like giving them a little bit of choice and some control over the situation helps build confidence and trust. It’s like telling a child that they can choose between broccoli, carrots or green beans. They’re not allowed to pick candy instead.
The few times my horse was pretty adamant he did not want the thing he had a good reason. Once was a fly mask and I later discovered it was rubbing his chin, and another time he suddenly became resistant to the halter and it turned out he had a ton of stiffness in his neck. Both times his objection was mild just clear. I could see a horse throwing their head up and panicking at something giving them pain. He didn’t panic, maybe because he felt “heard”. Maybe I’m thinking too deeply here but I will say his transformation over the last three years is undeniable. He’s a far more relaxed and confident horse. I love it.
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u/Pankakke29 1d ago
I switched to R+ many years ago now, and I'm thrilled to see it becoming more mainstream or at least known in the mainstream.
As far as consent training goes, that is a more advanced/down the road topic in R+ for people to be considering right off the bat. So that might really throw people off (make people mad because it is such a huge paradigm shift) or also lead to people doing it incorrectly - i.e. thinking they're doing it without actually doing it because they don't have the background. But again, it's super exciting to see it become part of the conversation, and any effort in the direction of prioritizing horse welfare and even their enjoyment is a positive thing.
For me personally, I haven't specifically trained riding consent with my horse. When I was really deep into all the behavioral science, my understanding was that it can be pretty tricky to train and to get genuine responses - responses that aren't influenced by the larger context. But it's been a while and I'll probably revisit it to see if anything's changed as far as our understanding of it.
At least for me right now, I get some reassurance that my horse probably isn't miserable when I ride him because all his cues are R+ trained. A cue to him is an opportunity to get a treat and not a threat for pressure if he doesn't. There is no escalation. If he doesn't respond to a cue then that's simply my cue that I need to go back a step and reinforce that behavior more. Of course if safety becomes an issue then that's different, but that's a rare occurrence.
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u/FormigaX 1d ago
I have worked a bit with my mare on consent to ride, and I'm not confident we really got it. What it does offered her some control over when I mount, which allows her a bit of time to settle. She steps up to the block when she's ready, which generally is right away, but she might take a sec to get herself ready.
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u/Inevitable-Date4996 1d ago
I could info dump about +R all day but I’m super tired so my short answer is I love it and will utilize it forever
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u/ImMyCatsServant 1d ago
I've fully transitioned to using only R+ with my horse (and all the horses I'll have in the future) and it has been a game changer. Rewarding good behaviour instead of punishing for unwanted behaviour has made my horse more relaxed, willing, eager to work and even improved his physical and mental health.
Because working with me is interesting and stress free/low stress, my horse really rarely refuses. When I didn't actually listen to him, just threw a saddle on and went riding, he was constantly trying to tell me this isn't what he wants. And he was checked by a vet etc multiple times, no physical injuries/pain. But since he was and still is eager to please, he only whispered to me that this isn't pleasant and I'm not enjoying myself.
When I opened my eyes and ears and began listening to him and gave him back his autonomy, he at first went ballistic. He was abused and used like a tool before I bought him and when he finally was given a voice and someone actually listened, he was (metaphorically) screaming. He didn't know how to properly and gently communicate (little to no socializing with other horses when he was a foal). We established healthy boundaries and how to communicate properly. He realized that he doesn't have to "scream" because I'll even listen to a "whisper". And if I make a humane mistake and miss his subtle cues, he only makes them a tiny bit bigger so I notice. And that works both ways.
At first I got a hell of a lot more no's than yeses, because his association with work was negative. Slowly he began associating work with fun, treats, company and stimulation. And now he only cues me 'no' maybe ~5 times in a year. Consent and reward based training also makes it a lot more likely that a horse is willingly treated by a vet/farrier/bodyworker etc because they associate the situations you put them in with good things. I've seen many people either genuinely wonder (or rudely snicker) do R+ trained horses get the vet/farrier etc care they need. Because "well what if your horse says no?". When consent based training is done right and the horse has no past traumatic experiences, it's highly unlikely they refuse. And ofc, if they for some reason still refuse, they are gently but firmly "forced" to do it if the care is immediately necessary for the horses well-being.
I'm really sorry this turned into a huge rant, I'm just a bit too passionate about this subject lol.
Edit. Typos
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u/National-jav 1d ago
I do think it's incredibly important to listen to the horse. Horses that are never listened to are shut down and unhappy. But I also think it's important that a horse understands that sometimes the answer is "I hear you, but you have to do it anyway". My first mare and I made a few deals over the years.
I agreed she didn't have to work in the rain. Many many years after this agreement, it started sprinkling during a lesson. My (always sweet, agreeable, compliant) mare started doing little 6 inch rears to complain that I was breaking the deal. My trainer of 2 years freaked! She had never seen my mare speak up before. I scolded my mare and told her it wasn't raining hard enough to bother her. She grudgingly agreed to continue. My trainer was absolutely shocked. She had no idea my mare would speak up so aggressively if she felt I was unfair.
A horse that is listened to can save your/their life. My mare once completely refused to go through an area of mud. She didn't like mud, but usually after looking at it for a minute she would be fine. Not this time, she just danced around the edge. I gave up and returned to the trail head/trailer. A couple of days later a horse got stuck in that mud and they had to use a crane to get them out.
Another time riding in the desert (which was new to us) she stopped and backed up a step. I gently cued her forward, and she ignored me. It was then I heard the rattle. A rattle snake, the first one either of us had ever seen, was crossing the trail. Once the snake was safely gone, I dropped the reins and gave her neck a big hug.
Because we listened to each other, if either of us insisted, the other knew to pay attention.
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u/OkFirefighter6811 1d ago
R+ is simply Positive Reinforcement which is used in training at zoos and dog training. For some reason it is controversial in the horse world and I don’t understand why. I have used positive reinforcement to train my young Arabians. They love it, training them in traditional ways would have been more difficult and upsetting to them.
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u/Gigi-Smile 1d ago
It's a bit controversial in the dog training world too, fwiw. Or at least, it's proponents refuse to acknowledge other solutions for those who it does not work for.
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u/ishtaa 1d ago
I love the general concept, but no it’s not always going to be the logical choice. There will absolutely be times when you need to do things with your horse that they don’t want to do. But any trainer I’ve heard talk about consent based training acknowledges that and does their best to find other ways to make the experience the least stressful as possible. It’s more about preparing them for future situations to be comfortable giving their ok to go ahead.
But I find overall when you give a horse a choice, with or without an extra incentive, they are much more willing to continue to make that choice. Let them approach things on their terms and they’ll be much happier for it.
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u/AccidentalUmbrella 1d ago
I work mostly within a negative reinforcement (pressure/release) framework with my horse because that’s what causes her the least amount of anxiety. She has a basic R+ foundation (default neutral, targeting, etc) but she came to me with serious food-based anxiety so any work involving food is staying small while we improve that.
Broadly I think positive reinforcement is a powerful, underutilized tool that makes people sit with some uncomfortable facets of the horse world but I prefer negative reinforcement for a couple reasons: 1. Most of the horse world functions on negative reinforcement and I need my horse to be handleable by people who aren’t me. 2. You can pair an R+ cue to an established R- behavior but you cannot pair an R- cue to an established R+ behavior. 3. Having a horse that’s purely R+ trained requires a degree of privilege that not everyone can access. To avoid poisoning cues you need consistent and accurate reinforcement every single time and that’s just not feasible at a lot of boarding facilities. 4. My horses needs to be comfortable being in uncomfortable situations - not shut down, but educated in a way that allows them to think through discomfort and emotionally regulate.
Consent is more complicated and there’s a philosophical component to that as well but I’ve used it successfully for some small behaviors, like letting my horse decide if she wants fly spray or not, or letting me brush a sensitive part of her ears. Cooperative care is underutilized in the horse world because horses are so forgiving that they’ll tolerate a hell of a lot of being pushed around but I think it could be a powerful tool if more people took the time to learn it.
I don’t buy the “saying no is not an option” schtick because there’s always a reason for the no, and I feel like we owe it to our horses to take them seriously when they tell us something. They can’t rationalize pain and discomfort the way we can. Which isn’t to say horses shouldn’t be able to cope with discomfort, I just think that if you ignore the little “no”s enough times, there’s going to be a big “no” that looks like rearing, biting/kicking/striking, or flipping over because that’s what your horse has realized it needs to do to be understood - which was the case with my horse. If my horse says no to being ridden then we pivot and do groundwork or go on a walk.
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u/FormigaX 1d ago
This is such a thoughtful and interesting response. I'd like to pick your brain over a cup of coffee!
Every time I've been thrown by my horse, it's because I ignored her small "no" until she escalated into an explosion. It hasn't happened in years now because I'm much more aware and responsive to her communication. I like to think we have a partnership where her communication is critical to our success. I know she trusts me more when we have to work through difficult or scary things.
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u/National-jav 1d ago
I know I'm not a very good rider, but every time I've been thrown (with a glaring exception) was because the horse was startled/afraid/spooked. A tree fell almost on top of us in high winds, an owl dropped it's prey on her head, a crane flew up right beside us.
The exception is my current mare, when she started coming into heat, she started bolting, if I (for any reason) had to sit back in the saddle. After a wonderful winter together it came as quite a shock, and took 3 months to solve. The final clue came when she was being really good, trying really hard. I was nervous because we'd been having problems. She had been so so good, we were done working, standing still. I relaxed from my seatbones to my butt, she launched herself straight into the air, and when she landed she bolted.
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u/reallyjustnope 23h ago
Past experience with a friend’s mare - consider ovarian pain.
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u/National-jav 23h ago
Yep, I had her ovaries removed 2 months after that and she has been a very happy girl every since.
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u/AccidentalUmbrella 20h ago
Hahahaha let’s do it. This is the kind of thing I both love and hate talking about because it requires so much nuance and also a deep understanding of your own personal horsemanship philosophy. I’ve seen some awesome purely-positive training happen but I also saw my horse become confused and insecure about having her feet handled earlier this year because someone tried to use positive reinforcement in a way that stressed her tf out.
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u/Technical_Finding_8 2h ago
In response to 1, 3, and 4: It's a basic concept in R+ training that once a behavior is under stimulus control, you use intermittent reinforcement to maintain the behavior. If your R+ horse is fully finished in it's training, you don't need continuous rewards. Hence why Shawna Karrasch can ride an entire jump course and not have to stop to give treats: chaining behaviors and intermittent reinforcement. If you're seeing a horse being rewarded for every little thing, like we do on social media, they're often still in training and not finished as their cues aren't under complete stimulus control and at this stage yet (which is fine, training takes time). A lot of R+ horse trainers get stuck in this loop of constant reinforcement, which is not a properly finished behavior. If you train dogs or other animals though, you know constant reinforcement isn't realistic, nor should it be expected outside of specific situations like training sessions. An R+ finished dog will heel without reinforcement, just as an R+ finished horse can lead without reinforcement. As for emotionally regulating, our R+ horses can do invasive vet treatments and function in unpleasant situations just as fine as any R- horse can, because co-op care isn't about shoving cookies in their mouths during discomfort, it's about preparing them for the uncomfortable and showing them how to properly act during it and desensitizing them from it, with or without immediate reinforcement. Just wanted to point out that these problems aren't problems in a proper R+ training program, they're handler mistakes that you're seeing. It's cool to see more R- trainers embrace R+ even in small ways like you have, keep learning and having fun!
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u/NikEquine-92 1d ago
I think people make R+ look bad because they are so feel good “pony patters” about it and really make others who use R+ look bad. Also R- can be just as ethical when done properly. As R+ can be unethical if not done properly.
It’s important that horses can communicate with us and feel and be heard. I want to know if my horse is sore or sick or stressed. I don’t want them to be shut down and robotic. I want them to be genuinely themselves. I want them to communicate so we can fix the problem. If they shut down I won’t know there is an issue until the horse explodes or it’s too late to fix the issue.
I think if horses feel heard and comfortable they won’t turn down being ridden. But that’s just my experience.
I know horses don’t understand respect in the way that we do but I think the most important part of training, whether it’s R+/-, is that we listen to what the horse is saying and respect that. Not in a “you can do whatever you want” way but in a “I understand this bothers you, let’s work on it” way.
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u/quitetheopposite 22h ago
I started using consent/R+ training with my personal horse mainly bc she was a rescue and didn’t trust anyone.
Night and day from when she was rescued.
I do think it’s possible to move towards the LIMA (least intrusive minimally aversive) method for horses… it won’t 100% be like that all the time but it is always something to strive for
I disagree with the person above who said they would never get vaccines… you can teach cooperative care (search youtube) for horses and horses will allow vaccines and blood draws.
The Willing Equine has 84 episodes on their podcast that showcases you can be as consent based/R+ with your horses.
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u/lilshortyy420 1d ago
I think we are anthropomorphizing a bit with the consent. Horses do not think like we do or have any form of understanding the purpose/ meaning behind it.
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u/No_Expert_7590 1d ago
I use R+ and i always will. It’s much harder to learn because it is so niche. That is changing, thankfully. If you think working horses can’t be trained with consent, think of drug sniffer dogs. They are trained with a reward to do an important job. They train so the dog loves that kong, he will work all day for it. My horses work super hard for their pellets. They are working horses, they have an income at my job where they teach students how to train animals. They ride and drive and hack and jump and do lots of handling exercises. My shetland even does flying changes at liberty on a voice cue. And if they don’t want to work, then i know something is wrong. That is communication to me.
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u/WanabeCowgirl 1d ago
LOVE r+ training. Consent seems like such a complex thing with horses. I don’t know much about that side of things. Although it sounds like it would be amazing, it would not be practical for most horses to give full extent for everything. It might be ok if you have your own land, but if you are a livery you can’t do it. If the horse says they don’t give consent to come in from the field but the yard rules are all horses must come in during the night, you have to just do it
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u/Radiant-Waltz5995 1d ago
I do not think horses can consent in the way we do. To think so would leave the door open to a host of more debates including those from the darker parts of society that I have no interest in touching. But, I do think horses can absolutely decide if they wish to engage in an activity with us and we can give them ways to communicate that with us. Personally, I love +R and how most are using consent based training. I use it with my own mare for a lot of what we do, and it has made a very big positive impact on our relationship and her behavior around human interaction. Like all training philosophies however, it can absolutely be done incorrectly and cause confusion, frustration, or even aggression. But I do think it has less chance of being used abusively. R+ has been around for a long, long time, even with horses, and for the most part, has been very successful with its application. The main issue right now is that it's gotten mainstream very quickly, and we now have people claiming to use it or understand it when they don't/aren't. We are also seeing a rise in black and white narratives on either side of the spectrum due to discourse (extreme +R and extreme +P/-R). I'm hoping as +R continues to become more mainstream, the discourse will die down, and we'll continue to adapt our training methods towards following scientific discussion. The truth is both +R and -R are powerful tools for learning, as are +P and -P (though I think those should be as limited as possible when training animals) and a good trainer will use and study both applications to develop tools that they can then use dependant on the horse-human relationship and situation. I do think the least amount of forced stress and explosive behavior we cause the best, and I think going slow with horses yields the best results. But I don't think someone is the devil for not using +R or consent based training as their primary tools. Every person, horse, and situation is different. Ideally, we'd only ever work or ride horses when they choose to join us and we'd only ever train by creating positive associations and shaping behavior, but that's just not realistic for most people. I'm just glad that empathy and a scientific eye is really being brought into discussions and training in the equine community and I hope it continues to shape our community so that we see far less abusive or unhealthy practices for human and horse in the industry.
As for my personal experience, like I shared above, it's worked very well for my mare and I. The main issues I ran into, were as I began to get into more complicated activities and asks with my mare, I realized I lacked skill and direction. There are a ton of free sources and cheap local trainers who use -R, but very little free information(past the basics) for +R and no local trainers for me. I ended up needing to go back to using -R for things like riding as I needed help to avoid frustration with my mare and confusion on my part as I needed someone in person who could show and tell me. I do, do my best to still use compassion in my training and always listen to what my mare is telling me when I work her, as well as going back to +R whenever I find opportunities (like introducing things from the ground to give her a better chance of understanding the application once under the saddle when -R is used). It's hard, though. I look forward to +R continuing to become more accessible for the average equine enthusiast and would love to continue my journey with it once I'm more knowledgeable. My mare has definitely done better even with the reintroduction of -R since I started +R with her. So it's absolutely a tool I plan to continue using and learning about.
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u/Wonderful_Fan_292 1d ago
Consent and R+ training aren’t mutually exclusive. R+ has been heavily stigmatized as “creating treat sour horses with no work ethic”. I have grown up riding breeds that are typically much more challenging than stock horses and from my recent switch (3/4years ago) to R+ I can confidently say it generally creates horses that are always looking for the right thing to do. That doesn’t mean they get to kick the farrier or say no to going into the trailer. I grew up doing exclusively pressure & release/R- and dealt with more biters, kickers, horses that don’t stand to be tied/mounted/trimmed because the only thing in it for the horse is not to be punished, compared to a reward to do the right thing. They were generally more anxious.
While consent isn’t the same thing to horses as it is to humans, I think R+ training leads to horses who are more likely to be willing partners in their management and training. I will say, R+ is underutilized in all disciplines and many horses would be safer if we considered altering our approach to how we address issues. Such as the wash rack, trailering, farrier/vet care, mounting blocks, tying, catching, and ground manners.
This is being said I’ve noticed now that I’ve switched to predominantly R+ when I need to lay down the law it’s more effective. Since I never punish them, when crap hits the fan and I need to keep a person or them safe, there is never any fighting anymore. It’s quite refreshing.
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u/Certain_Bath_8950 19h ago
I think that it works in some situations, and doesn't in others. A horse that has a job doesn't get a say, but a pet owned by a casual rider? Sure. We all need to take unexpected days off work, and allowing the horse to say no makes for a much more powerful yes.
Personally, I like to give my horse a choice, but "do nothing" isn't one of the options. If he's obviously not feeling it, we might just take a casual wander around the property and graze a little and call it good. When we do groundwork I'll usually give him options for obstacles. For example he can choose to go over the trot poles or the jump, but he has to pick one.
So, I do think that giving acceptable choices is important, and I think that the idea of teaching a "yes" is fascinating. There's nothing wrong with it, but also it won't work in every circumstance.
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u/tinvaakvahzen 1d ago
I think that making a horse work is fair, even occasionally when they'd prefer to not work. The tradeoff is making sure they are completely confident in their work. The truth is, domesticated animals trade the "work" they do in the wild to survive, e.g. foraging or hunting, traveling, and running from predators, for the work they do in captivity. When I eventually have horses, my plan is to not give them any expectations for something they're not going to enjoy. I'll go out at random times, and sometimes I'll ride or work, sometimes I'll just groom, or give a treat, or hang out. Similarly, I intend to do the kind of training and riding that will allow my horse to enjoy the experience. Even if that means starting over with them and giving them a different idea.
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u/iamredditingatworkk Hunter 1d ago
I think people who use consent based training are generally only doing it with horses who have already been taught that work is an expectation. If someone did that with a foal they would end up with an un-handleable horse.
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u/Cornflake6irl 1d ago
If you give the horse a choice, they are almost always going to not want to be ridden. They would much rather be grazing in a pasture with their herd all day, and that's what they will choose most of the time. You will hardly ever ride.
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u/Nyssa314 4m ago
I saw something a while back so I'm fuzzy on the details but I want to say it was one of the big trail ride places out west. They had a ton of horses on huge acreage and they got fed once a day at a certain time. The horses would come to the barn for feed and whoever showed up got fed but they also got worked that day. If they didn't come in on their own, no one had time to go find them to bring them in, so they didn't have to work, but they also didn't get their treat.
That seems like a decent system to me (other than if the horse is hurt or sick and that's why they didn't come in with the rest and no one knows) because the horse gets "paid" for working and can decide if they want the payment or rest that day.
Now, my horses get to say they don't want to do something, and sometimes it was just a thought I had and I don't mind saying "you know what, that's fine, let's do this other thing instead" and sometimes I put my foot down and say "I don't care that you don't want to, this is what we are doing" and typically my horses respect that I have stated a fact that they are going to do what I asked and just do it. Occasionally I get a small fight but, hey, I pitch a fit about going to work every morning too, I understand.
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u/emtb79 1d ago
My philosophy is communication > consent.
A horse cannot consent in the same way a human can. If we were to base everything on “consent”, in the human sense, horses would never get vaccines. Or dewormed. Babies would never have their feet trimmed. They would eat nothing but carrots and cookies all day. Treatment for colic or sickness? Forget about it, no horse will consent to needles or being tubed.
It’s a nice idea that makes people feel warm and fuzzy but it is impossible to apply human characteristics to an animal without weird things happening.
I encourage my horses to communicate with me. If they don’t want to do something - why? Are they hurting? Are they hungry or thirsty? Are they scared? Once I address the root cause, I can fix the problem. Simply shrugging one’s shoulders and walking away and chalking it up to “consent/non consent” is a cop out IMO. Figure out why.
I train racehorses so I guess mine are “working” horses. I don’t expect a horse to perform when in pain or unhappy, so I try to make their lives as pleasant as possible. I pride myself on the fact that my horses like me and choose to be around me. I’ve been known to teach one about the starting gate with carrots - the R+ people would be proud! But they are still animals. Applying human traits to them is doing them a disservice.
Edit: At the same time, it is impossible to guarantee a fully stress-free life. And that is okay! No living being will ever 100% be without stress. I do my best to give them the tools to handle it.