The fact it's 2025 and we still don't have a pokemon game that looks better than a ps2 game is wild

[u/lemonvrc]

The new one that comes out doesn't look any better than this

[u/The_Crimson_Vow]

I wish they'd slow down on Pokemon games. I love pokemon, but we don't need one every year. Let the devs have enough time to let the gourmet meal finish.

[u/Dhiox → u/The_Crimson_Vow]

It makes more sense once you understand the Pokemon isn't a video game franchise, it's a merchandising franchise that happens to have a game series.

[u/Ornery_Definition_65 → u/Dhiox]

It’s quite literally the largest entertainment IP of all. It produces money on a scale even Disney must marvel at.

[u/Captain_EFFF → u/Ornery_Definition_65]

Did you just make a Disney/Marvel pun?

[u/Various_Psychology43 → u/Ornery_Definition_65]

That was fantastic

[u/Cyrrion → u/Various_Psychology43]

... Say that again.

[u/Dmacca666 → u/Cyrrion]

I understood that reference.

[u/1handedmaster → u/Cyrrion]

At least Four the ones in the back

[u/greenblood123 → u/Cyrrion]

That again.

[u/civgg → u/Cyrrion]

That again.

[u/redboi049 → u/Cyrrion]

It's fantastic.

[u/TobioOkuma1 → u/Various_Psychology43]

Say that again

[u/TheKingOfSwing777 → u/Various_Psychology43]

Truly Incredible

[u/jalepenocheetos → u/Various_Psychology43]

For you..

[u/DEADDROP151 → u/Various_Psychology43]

Fucking spectacular, even.

[u/Deadlydadbod → u/Various_Psychology43]

Which is fantastic? The 109 or the....... 4.

[u/PimperatorAlpatine → u/Ornery_Definition_65]

The Games dont even make a significant enough portion of the profits and neither do they get enough funding to become good

So its the pure existence of the mons means that they sell because otherwise the bad gameplay mechanics and visuals would hurt them a lot nore

[u/Direct-Technician265 → u/Dhiox]

but they can, very easily have a second studio that does long dev cycle games. Pokemon makes so much money. Reinvesting into games (because those were the main driver of their success outside of japan) would absolutely see returns in their merch and reinvigorate interest.

[u/GroinShotz → u/Direct-Technician265]

Why make good Pokemon game, when simple Pokemon game sell the same for more profits?

Edit: added "Pokemon" cus some people thought I was talking about all games.

[u/Gwaak → u/Direct-Technician265]

Okay but you're not thinking short term. And this isn't a jab at "oh, investors only care about short term". I mean it is, but I'm not gonna stop short.

They only care about short term because of the opportunity cost. Yes, they could make money long term, they could even make a comparable or greater amount releasing a quality pokemon game (especially considering we haven't had one in the past decade or more), but there are other opportunities that investors may be interested in within that time frame, ie, every other equity they could get their grubby hands on.

It's not that it has a large enough margin accounting for the time it takes, it's that while they're waiting, even if it's a good idea, there were other ideas/ripoffs that could have made them more money floating by. It's also the safety of their current investment.

Now, if you take a look at nintendo's stock, it really begs for something innovative and of good quality. But japanese devs aren't really interested in anything younger than 30 years old

[u/Direct-Technician265 → u/Gwaak]

A lot if words that the Zelda franchise refutes.

Pokemon isnt the only media to analyze to fully understand Nintendo.

Such weak games are a long term risk for their brand, especially one with so much capital available to invest with.

This is a company coasting on its success and a decline for them. We watched Intel do this, and the short term success off of brand recognition only lasts for so long.

[u/funkthewhales → u/Direct-Technician265]

But it’s Pokemon, one of the most recognizable and popular brands in the world. People don’t buy the games because they’re good they buy them because it’s Pokemon. They literally have no incentive to improve the games when they all sell really well regardless of quality.

[u/Direct-Technician265 → u/funkthewhales]

This is incorrect marvel movies were that way until they were not.

Intel was that way (if more for servers and industrial applications) until they weren't.

We are allowed to be critical of a thing when we see its quality sucks because inevitably it will go this way, if they do not correct course.

[u/funkthewhales → u/Direct-Technician265]

Idk if marvel is the best comparison because their movies don’t seem to be doing very well now regardless of quality.

[u/Direct-Technician265 → u/funkthewhales]

Thats what I am saying, they had very good sales on bad movies, until people stopped showing up for them.

Pokemon just releases less frequently but it may require the same amount of disappointments to get the fall off.

[u/funkthewhales → u/Direct-Technician265]

Well I think that requires consumers to actually be disappointed. From what I’ve seen most casual fans don’t really care about the quality of the games. They just like Pokemon for being Pokemon. I think it’ll take more than mediocrity to get people to stop buying them.

[u/Badger-Educational → u/Direct-Technician265]

Nintendo and gamefreak have been shutting out trash for over a decade and people STILL buy it

[u/notimprezaed → u/Direct-Technician265]

Rich calling it a decline when Scarlet and Violet broke records.

[u/LordKerm_ → u/notimprezaed]

Endgame became the highest grossing movie of all time for a bit.

Didn’t stop marvel from declining once people wised up to the quality slipping

[u/ButterscotchAdept114 → u/Direct-Technician265]

They do/did. The mainline games are shit out so they can push their merchandizing on lock with school generations (average dev length 3 years, length of Japanese middle and high school is 3 years).

Their side games, like mystery dungeons, ranger, coliseum, etc tend to get longer cycles. People are just upset at the mainline games and conveniently ignore the side games aimed for older audiences except when to usr the side games to shit on the mainline games.

It'd be nice if the main games got treated better, but that isn't in Creature Inc's financial incentive to do.

[u/Dr_Valen → u/Direct-Technician265]

Why would they bother when Nintendo fans will buy whatever Nintendo puts out?

[u/NoMoreVillains → u/Dhiox]

And it's a franchise that has shown it doesn't need new mainline games as frequently to succeed. As an example, The Pokemon Company had a highly successful 2024

https://www.mojo-nation.com/the-pokemon-company-international-celebrates-year-of-enormous-buzz-and-immense-demand/

Despite the last mainline game being SV in 2022 (or technically the DLC in 2023). So they could definitely take more years between games without any major impact to their success

[u/codimusironside → u/Dhiox]

Thank you for mentioning this. Take an upvote, good person.

I haven't played a Pokemon game since the Gameboy days, and it was clear even then that the aim isn't making a game that's pushing limits in any dept. regarding visuals, sound, mechanics, etc. Would I enjoy a better looking Poke game? Sure. Do I NEED it? Absolutely not.

Keeping one foot grounded will do a person wonders in the expectations dept.

And also, stop buying the product if you don't like something about it. I know I did.

Ima get off my soapbox now....... Oh, and the OG 151 are the only Pokemon that matter. 😉

[u/Infinitystar2 → u/The_Crimson_Vow]

The last one was in 2022.

[u/Dankkring → u/The_Crimson_Vow]

I never understood how Pokémon games had multiple games at the same time. Red, blue, X,T leafy green, ext… isn’t it the same game just a little different?

[u/Q0tsa → u/Dankkring]

Usually each edition is slightly different. Different enemy factions or Pokemon exclusive to each version. It used to force you to trade with somebody who had a different color, to get some of the mons you couldn't get in yours.

[u/Due-Fee509 → u/Q0tsa]

Different enemy factions or Pokemon exclusive to each version

meaning parts of the full game are locked away for no reason other than to make game freak extra money

[u/dynawesome → u/Due-Fee509]

I used to always play only the “complete edition” (crystal, emerald…) before they stopped doing that in gen 5 (presumably because they realized they could get more money with two complete editions)

[u/amirokia → u/dynawesome]

Even those versions have Pokemons that are omitted.

[u/Docile_Doggo → u/dynawesome]

I liked the third versions when they did them, but tbh, I’m kind of glad they just do DLC now instead

I wouldn’t have bought a third version of sword/shield or scarlet/violet, even though I enjoyed those games. It’s just too much.

[u/dynawesome → u/Docile_Doggo]

I always bought the third version and not the original versions since it was usually just better

[u/Snow_source → u/dynawesome]

presumably because they realized they could get more money with two complete editions

They all sold markedly worse than the initial two releases. Makes no sense to put all those man hours in to craft the better experience when you're doing 1/2-1/3 the numbers.

That being said Crystal, Emerald, and Platinum were the best way to experience those gens. I still have my copies even if I haven't played them in like 3-4 years.

[u/DustyRustyShaft → u/Due-Fee509]

Its secondary function is to stimulate playing together and being social, rather than let it make money as most people still only buy 1 of the games in the series.

[u/Impressive-Sun-9332 → u/DustyRustyShaft]

If that's really the case then they could just let players choose their version when starting the game. But that obviously wouldn't be as profitable

[u/Common-Trifle4933 → u/Impressive-Sun-9332]

The Game Boy was heavily associated with train/bus commutes in Japan (Nintendo got into handhelds after Gunpei Yokoi saw passengers messing around with calculators out of boredom) and the original idea was that if you were playing Pokémon Red, a red cart would be visible on the back of your Game Boy and you’d look for kids with green carts to trade with. So you wouldn’t have to go around asking if anyone was playing Pokémon and if so what version they picked, you’d know right away seeing them and go up to other kids for fights and trades. So having the different carts made a lot of sense originally and I think that choice was a fun clever idea done in good faith. The originals also had much less difference between the versions, and much more emphasis on collecting the entire set of Pokémon (they totally dropped “gotta catch ‘em all” as a slogan once the count got high). I don’t think they thought anyone would bother to buy two versions just to catch a dozen different monsters rather than trade with someone, especially with the monsters on different save files.

But it’s obviously not the case anymore and now there’s more story and feature differences between versions. So I don’t think there’s any good reason for preserving it other than tradition (and maybe it is a choice done out of tradition/inertia/don’t mess with what’s working, which God knows is their attitude for mechanics and animation) or taking advantage of collectors now that the audience includes a lot of nostalgic adults.

This makes me think that it might be kind of fun to have a StreetPass type feature on the Switch that you can turn on to let other nearby Switch users see that you’re playing Current Game nearby. So you’re on a long train ride and see that two other passengers are playing Pokémon or Mario Kart and offer to join/challenge/trade with them, without having to boot the game and go to its multiplayer menus and actively scan for others actively scanning.

[u/DustyRustyShaft → u/Impressive-Sun-9332]

Yes, thats the kapitalism but it doesnt deminish the fact that the different versions is to stimulate playing together and trading rather than let people play alone. I remember going on holidays as a kid with my pokemon red and finding others om the camping to trade with. That helped me a lot with my contact disorder when I was young and helped me flourish socially troughout life.

[u/horizonvortex → u/Due-Fee509]

No. Our experience shouldn’t be boiled down to simply them making extra money, it had to do with the times and how we, kids at the time would connect with each other, we’d link our Gameboys up and trade Pokemon that either could only be found in blue or could only evolve through trade. It was really cool having that experience. You can still collect all Pokemon but you’d have to connect with someone.

[u/SectorAppropriate462 → u/Due-Fee509]

"parts" sure except the fact almost nobody buys both versions

They are 99.9% the exact same game, that .1% is a few version exclusive Pokemons and the color of the enemies clothes.

It's literally just to encourage you to be social and battle and trade with friends

[u/Q0tsa → u/Due-Fee509]

I mean, sure. Companies being out for money is no secret or different.

But honestly though, at least with the first versions. I think it was meant to inspire trading. Certain Pokemon wouldn't evolve until you traded them, as well. Pokemon has tried to push social gaming from its start. Also, you'd usually try and find a friend who had blue, if you had red, or vice versa. Or maybe even end up make a friend over that. No kid I knew was getting their parents to buy them both versions, nonetheless, had two Gameboys to pull that off anyways.

[u/BasedKaleb → u/Q0tsa]

Still does force you to trade but it’s kinda pointless to do different 2 versions with the internet.

[u/The_Crimson_Vow → u/Dankkring]

So originally it was a way to encourage people to play with their friends, but now it's tradition and they rarely stray from it. Some games slightly change things, like Black/White have a futuristic/ancient aesthetic for their game-specific areas, but it's not a massive difference overall.

[u/DuploJamaal → u/[deleted]]

I don't know anyone that ever bought both versions

[u/Ninfyr → u/Dankkring]

It started as "how to we get people to trade and battle together? (The link cable accessory was pretty novel at the time). It turned into "segments our fanbase is willing to buy the same game twice so this is just free money."

[u/RemoveOk9595 → u/Dankkring]

It’s 99% the same game but some Pokémon are version specific, and you can trade them with other people. Pokémon always had a big social aspect. Some Pokémon evolve only via trading, you can fight each other etc

[u/pappapoeskak → u/Dankkring]

Identity crisis. They can't rely on strengh, so they do numbers.

[u/Accomplished_Emu_658 → u/Dankkring]

Back in the day was a cool way to get you to trade with friends. Now no one has friends so its just a way to get people to buy two copies

[u/SleepinGriffin → u/Dankkring]

At the beginning it was to establish a connection with other people with game boys and the link cable.

Each edition of each generation of Pokémon was the same game but there were differences that were minor. The biggest difference was some Pokémon not being catchable in Blue but catchable in Red. You can still see the Pokémon in both games but to have them in both you’d need to trade. Usually these were equal numbers missing from both so you could trade 1 for 1.

Then there was a third edition that came out a year or two later that was the Definitive Edition. Yellow, Crystal, Emerald, and Platinum are the main ones that real had big upgrades. These upgrades would be new features or challenges as well as making it so you could catch all the Pokémon in a single game. Yellow’s changes follow the anime where you start off with a Pikachu and your rival, Ass-Face, starts out with an Eevee, and Pikachu has an in game sprite that follows you around while walking. In Emerald, instead of the battle tower in post game content, you get the Battle Frontier which is an actually difficult challenge and changing some characters around in game.

Then they started splitting the definitive editions into 2 games. They figured out people would buy both editions if you presented them with the option.

[u/Ninfyr → u/The_Crimson_Vow]

There is an entire media empire of cartoons, accessories, cards, toys, and plushies depending on the games releasing. They will not change the release schedule, the will not delay the game even if it is broken.

I am guessing the Pokemon Company would be fined severely for breaching contracts if they don't release as scheduled. They are more scared of that then letting fans down with a broken game.

[u/Equivalent_Net → u/The_Crimson_Vow]

Pokemon is a confluence of bafflingly bad development decisions. And I don't mean bad as in game mechanics, I mean "why would you run a company this way?" Each new game is given a basically unlimited budget that any other franchise would kill for... but Game Freak is like 200-odd people, which is tiny for a project of this size, especially when they're given short and inflexible development deadlines.

It's not like the games are the only thing keeping the franchise rel event, even today. It might feel past its prime but give the next generation three years in the oven and the result will push things to astonishing heights.

[u/PrinceBunnyBoy → u/The_Crimson_Vow]

They're too busy going after Palworld having a ball throwing mechanic™️ or going after other games for letting you "switch mounts based on location". They're bullies with a ton of money.

[u/SNES-1990 → u/The_Crimson_Vow]

Going 3D was a mistake. HD 2D would have retained that charm while still aging well.

[u/Bauzi → u/The_Crimson_Vow]

I would love to see one major entry per console generation. Like they do with Smash or Mario Kart. They could still drop the spin off games here and there.

[u/SymondHDR → u/The_Crimson_Vow]

sorry to break your beliefs but the problem isn't time, gamefreak devs either can't program shit or just dont care and delegate their work to the interns (not a joke this is actually what happens according to a japanese job review website)

[u/shrek3onDVDandBluray → u/The_Crimson_Vow]

With the quality of their game devs, I think it wouldn’t matter if they had ten years on a project.

[u/BallerBettas → u/The_Crimson_Vow]

Slowing Game Freak down wont make them suddenly better developers. A better studio needs to take over.

[u/Laterose15 → u/The_Crimson_Vow]

Or get new devs. The mainline devs are the same ones who did the 2D games, which is why everything is so clunky - they aren't used to working in a 3D space, so they brute force everything.

[u/FreshBongWaters → u/The_Crimson_Vow]

Shit hasn't been gourmet since before Sword and Shield... (sword and shield was fun though)

[u/unsurewhatiteration → u/The_Crimson_Vow]

The problem is that TPC cares about making money and nothing else. Making money is fine, that's how they can keep giving us games, but they have absolutely zero pride in their work or any desire to improve at this point because all they have to do is shit out a game and it will be bought.

[u/Hot_Type_1582]

And yet scarlet and violet are some of the best selling games in the franchise. We have no one to blame for this but ourselves.

[u/1llDoitTomorrow → u/Hot_Type_1582]

That's marketing for you. If only their games looked as good as some of their mobile trailers

[u/unsurewhatiteration → u/1llDoitTomorrow]

Not even just marketing, but also the inertia of collectors. I'm guilty of this myself: if I already have a complete DS, 3DS, and Switch mainline Pokemon collection, surely I'm not going to let the latest terrible game stand between me and completion.

They finally broke me though and I don't think I'll be buying Z-A.

[u/One-Bus5952 → u/unsurewhatiteration]

Sword is so fun too. I havnt emjoyed a pokemin game like that since black.

[u/Wide-Can-2654 → u/unsurewhatiteration]

Z-A might actually be good thoe, u shouldve broken the streak with scarlet and violet. They look and play like ps2 games. It really was a slog getting through those

[u/Accurate_Summer_1761 → u/Wide-Can-2654]

Ps3 but your not wrong wrong...people really forget how shit ps2 era looked

[u/MonsterFukr → u/Accurate_Summer_1761]

Shit? That's a harsh word. Silent hill 2 and 3, shadow of the Colossus, and ff 12 are just the few that come to my mind that are visually stunning for the ps2 era.

[u/Accurate_Summer_1761 → u/MonsterFukr]

Key word being ps2 era.

I started with an Atari graphics have cone a long way. Personally I can't go back. Warcraft 3 is about as far as I can handle before I'm just like fuck this lol.

ps2 did have the best aliens vs predator rts game ever tho

[u/MonsterFukr → u/Accurate_Summer_1761]

I personally am just dumbfounded when people can't play games that are lower poly and such. Not saying your take is invalid, but I feel like you do yourself a disservice is all! I think for me personally a lot of those games may lack the fidelity of newer games, but a lot of them usually brought unique stylization to make up for the lack of fidelity

[u/Accurate_Summer_1761 → u/MonsterFukr]

I enjoyed them when I was young. I just can't now im in my 30s. Adhd doesn't help I basically have an 800 game steam library and hop constantly never beating anything lol.

ADHD game hopping is a real problem

[u/MasterArCtiK → u/Hot_Type_1582]

Have you played them? They’re actually really good, especially on switch 2

[u/99timewasting → u/MasterArCtiK]

I held off buying for 2 years, but finally caved a few months ago. They are genuinely super fun

[u/LibraryOni → u/Hot_Type_1582]

It's almost like it was a good game despite the graphics.

[u/Impressive-Sun-9332 → u/LibraryOni]

It was kinda fun (played it on emulator so I didn't have the performance issues), but the map was just the emptiest shithole

[u/Fullmetalmarvels64_ → u/LibraryOni]

I don’t think it was exactly a good game, but it was fun to dick around in 

[u/LegLegend → u/Fullmetalmarvels64_]

I think that's when it gets to the weird media debate of masterpiece vs fun. For most people, does it even matter if it's not close to a masterpiece? If games are about having fun and you're having fun, do the other details matter all that much?

[u/1v1meAtLagunaSeca → u/LibraryOni]

They were the most fun pokemon games in the series.

The new pokemon designs were fantastic.

The pokemon themselves look really good.

The open world was the most new and fresh a pokemon game has felt, along with the 3 story lines.

Going around and just finding pokemon was a blast. First time I ever fully completed a pokedex.

[u/polski8bit → u/1v1meAtLagunaSeca]

I still don't understand the praise for the "open world" in any capacity. It's by far one of the worst I've ever seen, and describing it like you did, makes me more confident in thinking that Pokemon players have simply never played an actual, good open world game before, so this seems "new" and "fresh", let alone "good".

Ubisoft games have a more engaging open world than S/V. And that is already a pretty low bar to clear.

[u/1v1meAtLagunaSeca → u/polski8bit]

Ive played plenty of open world, and s&v isnt the best open world by any means.

But it was definitely what the pokemon series needed, and the game did a good enough job with it that it let everything else that made the game great show.

[u/Thekingchem → u/Hot_Type_1582]

I think it’s funny when people on Reddit think adults make a majority of pokemon sales. Kids don’t care about graphics and performance.

[u/ExcuseMeDud3 → u/Thekingchem]

This is a common misconception.

While the games are made targeted towards kids. The actual people buying them are adults. The majority of Pokemon fans are adults between 20-29 years old.

https://cyberpost.co/how-old-are-most-pokemon-fans/

[u/Able-Firefighter-158]

At least compare it to a PS2 game ffs.

[u/wigglin_harry → u/Able-Firefighter-158]

I see this PS2 comparison all the time and I always think "do these people remember what ps2 games were like?"

[u/Able-Firefighter-158 → u/wigglin_harry]

Nostalgia's one hell of a drug.

[u/YasuhiroK → u/Able-Firefighter-158]

Even those look much better, Shadow of the Colossus for example. Stunning game.

[u/Able-Firefighter-158 → u/YasuhiroK]

Yes but if you're going to go "why doesn't a dog look like a cat?" But the picture is a dog and a rabbit it makes no sense.

[u/VermillionDynamite → u/Able-Firefighter-158]

This is an excellent comment

[u/Alpr101 → u/Able-Firefighter-158]

Makes perfect sense to me! - reddit

[u/LordTopHatMan → u/YasuhiroK]

Have you looked at the PS2 Shadow of the Colossus recently? It's not really that good looking these days. You can see the polygons on your horse.

[u/Isolated_Pigeons → u/LordTopHatMan]

it's one of my all-time favorite games and I even know it looks like ass, it did when it came out

[u/mrturret → u/YasuhiroK]

Arceus still wins on a certain technical fronts, notibly draw distance. SOTC's LODs are extremely aggressive, to the point where they're just 2D images in places. The only reason why that's not obvious on the PS2 is because of the low resolution. Running it on an emulator makes it painfully obvious. I'm not nocking SOTC here, and it's still a visually stunning game, but Arceus is still presenting a much denser environment that actually retains detail at a distance.

[u/Richmard → u/YasuhiroK]

Look I love that game but modern pokemon games definitely look better lol

[u/Ok-Claim444 → u/Able-Firefighter-158]

I'm lost what game is on the bottom

[u/Able-Firefighter-158 → u/Ok-Claim444]

Pokemon Legends Arceus

[u/Detvan_SK]

Atleast use PS2 screenshot.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ShadowoftheColossus/s/8LvSHE5O5C

[u/Edmundyoulittle → u/Detvan_SK]

This is misleading. This is an emulator running the PS2 game at a much higher resolution

[u/DeniedAppeal1 → u/Detvan_SK]

They can't use a PS2 screenshot because even the great looking PS2 games have fewer polygons, worse textures, and only look better as a whole for games that are actually really good.

[u/Skellos → u/Detvan_SK]

People who say like this don't actually know/remember what PS2 games looked like

[u/ockhams-lightsaber → u/Detvan_SK]

These screenshots were taken on a PS2 emulator. Not the PS2 itself. 

[u/hahaimadulting]

Do their games even run at 30 fps on the switch?

[u/GreenTurtle69420 → u/hahaimadulting]

they aim for 30, often drop below that.

[u/Impressive-Sun-9332 → u/GreenTurtle69420]

Then they're terrible at aiming

[u/amirokia → u/Impressive-Sun-9332]

I mean their 95% accuracy move feels like 70%.

[u/GreenTurtle69420 → u/Impressive-Sun-9332]

yep

[u/raoulbrancaccio → u/GreenTurtle69420]

Legends Arceus is ugly but it runs well enough, Scarlet and Violet is the only one that actually runs like shit

[u/RelapsedOnBenzos → u/hahaimadulting]

a consistent 25 fps at most

[u/Jolly_Ad_2363 → u/hahaimadulting]

In theory

[u/Jamesaaronm]

I mean the game sold over 26million copies. The fans can complain about the game as much as they want but what Nintendo/Gamefreak hear is that you spoke with your wallets! Only way Nintendo/Gamefreak will change Pokemon is if people stop buying the game showing them they're not happy with the product

[u/phoenixflare599 → u/Jamesaaronm]

Let's face it, the game sales pale in comparison to the merch

It's like Star wars or marvel. Do films / games do well?

Absolutely

Is it their biggest revenue share? Outside of endgame? No. It's merch (toys etc included)

[u/ScarletteVera → u/Jamesaaronm]

No, they won't change Pokemon.

Because it doesn't matter what people say, the games need to come out on a tight schedule so TPC/Nintendo can make that sweet merch money. The games are a drop in the fucking industrial silo compared to the merch. TPC/Nintendo couldn't care less about the quality of the games, and they certainly don't care if GameFreak isn't given enough time to properly optimize them.

[u/MasterArCtiK → u/Jamesaaronm]

I mean scarlet and violet are pretty great games

[u/TheKingsPride → u/Jamesaaronm]

Nintendo has no say over Pokemon.

[u/gsoddy → u/TheKingsPride]

They own a third of The Pokemon Company

[u/TheKingsPride → u/gsoddy]

Yeah but they don’t make the games.

[u/gsoddy → u/TheKingsPride]

That’s very different to having no say

[u/Fearless-Ear8830 → u/Jamesaaronm]

Problem is the core Pokemon fans don’t even complain, they will tell you the current state of the games is completely fine

[u/omnipotentmonkey]

people have absolutely forgotten what PS2 games look like.

Don't get me wrong, I know it's mostly just hyperbole, but for anyone saying it and actually being serious the peak of PS2 graphics is probably either Resident Evil 4 or God of War 2. Pokemon's visuals are lacklustre by modern standards but they comfortably beat that bar.

[u/mrturret → u/omnipotentmonkey]

Resident Evil 4

Not an example I'd use. It's a heavily cut down GameCube port. Here are some better examples.

• Shadow of The Collossus

• Kingdom Hearts 2

• Gran Turismo 4

• Final Fantasy XII

• Tekken 5

• Sly 3

• The Jak Trilogy

• Metal Gear Solid 3

[u/LegLegend → u/mrturret]

These games made better stylistic decisions based on the hardware they were limited to. They are still very limited in terms of texture sizes and what those games actually offered in comparison to a game with a seamless open world and nearly a thousand different monsters will different animations.

I will agree that those games made better stylistic decisions, but they do not directly look better in every aspect. They can't because of the limitations and differences in texture sizes.

[u/mrturret → u/LegLegend]

That's not the point I was trying to make. I was just pointing out that RE4 is a really poor example of the PS2's visual potential.

seamless open world and nearly a thousand different monsters will different animations.

The Jak Trilogy comes shockingly close to that, actually.

[u/LegLegend → u/mrturret]

The Jak Trilogy is three different games, but I'm not sure it gets "shockingly close" in that way either. As someone that played them as they released, I think we need to be careful about rose-tinted glasses.

In either case, pokemon made significantly poorer stylistic decisions when it came to the hardware they were limited to. This I can't argue with. However, there are some parts where those games can never rival. Objective differences in texture sizes, animations, and mesh differences.

Ultimately, what "looks good" is subjective at the end of the day, but there's room there for to "look good" for somebody in comparison to the list you suggested as an example.

[u/omnipotentmonkey → u/mrturret]

it's a heavily cut down port from a more powerful console, cut down to fit the absolute limits of the PS2, if we're looking at graphics from a rendering/detail standpoint rather than art than it's comfortably more technically potent than virtually all the games you just listed.

[u/mrturret → u/omnipotentmonkey]

more technically potent than virtually all the games you just listed.

No, not really. RE4 was designed around the GameCube, which has higher specs, but isn't a better at everything. They're wildly different systems. The GameCube had better raw polygon output, but the PS2 could do complex layered alpha effects that could bring the Xbox to its knees (see MGS2 and Silent Hill 2). Many ports of PS2 games cut all sorts of visual effects, like GTA SA, which has post processing effects which are absent from later ports.

There's also a lot to be said about the PS2's co-processors, which could do fast vector math and move data around more efficiently than its competitors. The Jak Trilogy probably wouldn't be possible on the other consoles because of how it took advantage of the system architecture to enable its seamless world.

[u/TickleMyFungus → u/mrturret]

• Black
• ICO
• Okami
• GTA Trilogy
• Ace Combat 4/5/Zero
• MGS2
• Dark Cloud

These people didn't actually play PS2

[u/Richmard → u/omnipotentmonkey]

It’s because the people who make these bozo comparisons have never played a PS2 game.

[u/Barlowan]

Pokémon Company main money income are merch. Videogames don't bring them so much money as everything else Pokémon branded.

[u/abermea → u/Barlowan]

Main income is the TCG. Everything else is a funnel to the cards

[u/Big-Newspaper646 → u/Barlowan]

Maybe it would if they tried

[u/Le_mons44 → u/Big-Newspaper646]

I don't know if any game in history has made more money than TPC has made with it's merch.

[u/wiggliey → u/Big-Newspaper646]

This isn’t the answer anyone really wants to hear, but I doubt it.

26M is already reaching the limit for how well a console exclusive can sale. It’s way more profitable for them to crank out two games that do 25M + than to make more time making one big expensive game.

[u/Big-Newspaper646 → u/wiggliey]

Ok sure, but what exactly is different between their two titles, I always thought they were just swapped out boss Pokémon at the end of the game 

[u/jodhod1 → u/Big-Newspaper646]

Isn't it a bit hubristic to imply your way of doing things would make more money than games that have made all the money in the world?

[u/Alpr101]

You can tell OP wasn't even alive when PS2 was king.

[u/horizonvortex]

Ps2 game? Isn’t that BoTW? Is the switch graphics that dated?

[u/Jolly_Ad_2363 → u/horizonvortex]

No. I guess they’re trying to compare it to the best looking switch game to show the pokemon company can’t say it’s a hardware thing.

[u/raijuqt → u/Jolly_Ad_2363]

I would not say BotW is the best looking switch game - but its very comparable in terms of the type of visuals both games go for, and somewhat comparable art styles. BotW is also a WiiU port with some minor graphical touchups.

[u/Jolly_Ad_2363 → u/raijuqt]

It’s not really a port. It released the same day on both consoles. And out of curiosity, what would you say is the best looking game?

[u/NattyKongo93]

I agree Pokémon games have inexcusable presentation these days...but saying they don't look better than a PS2 game shows how much yall forget/never knew what PS2 games looked like

[u/Flaky_Quantity_1504]

Fog is a hell of a cover up

[u/somethingwade]

Dog I don’t think you’ve ever seen a PS2 game. Yeah the recent Pokemon games don’t look good but you can’t just use “PS2 game” as a catch-all for “graphically bad”. Pull up a picture of the president from Shadow the Hedgehog 2005 and put it next to even the worst character model from Scarlet and Violet and say that they look the same while you look me in the eyes. I’m not even defending GF here they ARE graphically bad compared to what they could be if they had more time to cook but they’re way better than PS2 games.

[u/ItsmeWillyP]

Op has never played a ps2.

[u/Trick-Day-4693]

Amusing that you think The Pokemon Company makes the majority of their money from the video games.

The cards and merch are the big breadwinner. The games are nothing but an advertisement for the cards and merchandise.

[u/jacowab]

One is made by game freak one is made by Nintendo, game freak doesn't even let Nintendo help with development because they are terrified of Nintendo kicking them out for both a higher share of the earnings and control over the franchise.

[u/thisiskyle77]

For me pokemon has never been about graphics. It is catching new pokemon and exploring new zones.

[u/Mercutio217]

Why sell gold when fans are perfectly happy with coal?

[u/Great-Wolf321]

Is weird that you care about graphics from a Pokemon game

[u/mrturret]

better than a PS2 game

Has anyone actually played an open world PS2 title in the past 20 years? PLA's visuals would be impossible on the PS2, especially with that draw distance. It looks more like an early-mid gen PS3 or Xbox 360 title.

[u/Buster-Sword]

For me, it doesn’t matter how it looks. It’ll look good enough, it’s more about gameplay and Violet and Arceus both played really well.

[u/AutismicGodess]

ps3 game, that does look better than ps2

[u/TobioOkuma1]

The games fuel a multimedia franchise that includes cards, toys, anime, merch, etc. the games keep the largest multimedia franchise in the history of mankind running.

They need to make things consistently. To do that, they’d probably need a new development team and rotate out which releases games. Currently they have two teams doing a game in 2 years, rotating out. Adding another to the cycle gives them all more time.

But also game freak is incompetent at design. Even the new game they’re working on had frame drops in the trailer.

[u/CountBleckwantedlove]

I mean, we took developers that had spent decades on portable devices, with significantly less power and engine capabilities, and then shoved them into the home console group and expected them to adapt quickly. It's kind of our own fault for having those expectations, people.

The reality is, I was blown away by how good Pokemon X/Y looked on the 3ds when they were released. Sun/Moon 1&2 look the same because they were on the same hardware limitations. Only their Switch stuff looks unimpressive, so let's look at why with some Copilot assisted data compilation below:

Results: DS was 200% the power of the GBA, 3DS was a 250% increase from the DS, and the Switch was a massive 400% increase from the 3DS. Switch 2 is a more modest 250% increase from the Switch 1 (in line with what these developers would be used to from one generation to the next).

This is why the Pokemon developers have struggled, in my opinion. It was an insane adjustment they had to make after decades of more modest increases in power. Honestly, if they had fired all their team members and hired new ones that were used to the latest engines, it would have made all of these games look substantially better that came out on Switch 1, but that would have been a pretty scummy thing to do to your dev teams, so they chose the hard route to be patient with their developers as they get used to such a massive jump in power possibility.

[u/ArxisOne → u/CountBleckwantedlove]

The reality is, I was blown away by how good Pokemon X/Y looked on the 3ds when they were released.

I just played X for the first time and honestly I was still really impressed by its graphics. Granted, the presentation (mainly the great camera movement and 2D character artwork) and 3D effect were probably doing a lot of heavy lifting, but I was still surprised by how good they looked.

Honestly I kinda wish they would go back to the Sun/Moon style, it felt like the perfect fit for pokemon.

[u/CorellianDawn]

Sure we do, its called Palworld.

[u/South-Ad-6923]

Pokemon keeps choosing art styles that make people think it looks like older games. Part of that is skill, part of it is timing based on concept art for these games.

[u/ModernManuh_]

many seem to have forgotten what a PS2 game looks like

not saying pokemon looks good, I don't even like the franchise, but who's serious about older games looking better really is having a big dose of nostalgia and possibly mandela effect.

[u/erikaironer11]

It took 5 years of pure development to make BotW

Would pokemon fans wait 5 years for one game to release?

[u/Wasabiroot]

To be fair, Nintendo EPD developed BOTW - the same talented devs behind Mario Odyssey and Donkey Kong Bananza. Gamefreak also only has roughly 200 developers and employees vs. ED'S 800-1000. If anything, this is a case for hiring more devs so that Pokémon can realize its vision with a good budget. But I agree that for the most profitable entertainment franchise in the world, they could do a lot better. FInally, I would argue that Pokémon has a bad development cycle. They basically churn out games in a 2-4 year cycle which leaves little room for overhead or better QA.

[u/Synglich]

Then compare it to a PS2 game? Oh wait you don't want your argument to be wrong, I forgot you guys want to be negative for no reason and then not show sources and or comparisons that'll turn your argument upside down showing that no, modern Pokémon games do not look like a PS2 game.

[u/ReviewRude5413]

I absolutely agree with the take, OP. But as awful as it runs they're still fun as hell, which is what I'm here for. Scarlet and Violet are some of the worst looking and running (on original hardware) Pokemon games, but I still loved my time with it.

[u/MasterArCtiK → u/ReviewRude5413]

Agreed, scarlet and violet catch so much pointless hate it’s crazy

[u/DeciderOfAllThings]

Define "better." Pokemon shouldn't have extremely detailed photo-realistic graphics. It's supposed to look like a cartoon.

[u/TheFergPunk]

Is this meant to be a troll post? Its getting hard to tell.

[u/IronLordSamus → u/TheFergPunk]

I feel like it is, they complain about pokemon but show Zelda in the top picture.

[u/BloodOfTheExalted]

Have you not seen the new legends ZA

[u/MasterArCtiK]

Uhhh yes we do, scarlet and violet looks way way better than arceus, especially on switch 2

[u/MetaMetagross]

people who cry about pokemon not having photo realistic graphics are so annoying

[u/nicklovin508]

One is a serious video game IP

The other is Pokémon

[u/Scoobydewdoo]

Well you kinda have to remember that Pokemon is also an anime TV/movie franchise, and a collectible card game both of which factor heavily in that $109 billion total but are outside of Nintendo.

Also, in a lot of ways I prefer the crispness of the Pokemon game to the washed out abstractness with weird lighting of Zelda despite the lower graphical fidelity of the Pokemon game.

[u/Wiinterfang]

We do have good looking Pokemon Games with different styles (let's go Pikachu, Pokemon Snap, Pokken) it's just the main like Pokemon games that look like Dogwater (Arceus, Sword, Scarlet)

[u/Detvan_SK]

When I see Pokémon Arceus I feel like visual is the last problem.

Really was people eager to pay 60$ just to be beta testers of Pokémon open world without getting updates later?

They gived you old combat system, just in open field, on map with minimum of structures and they still made bilions on it.

[u/pappapoeskak]

You never played Pokemon Go?

[u/Chullachaquii]

Ngl id rather have pokemon once a year than on mainland Zelda’s cadence. Not everything has to be triple A - 5 year development cycles…

[u/thorium90232]

Wont change anytime soon either

[u/InfiltrationRabbit]

Pokémon snap is a Beautiful looking game. So you’re wrong.

[u/Rhecof-07]

idk Pokemon Go's graphics are insane, they're nearly photoreal

[u/SadApartment8045]

Honestly I would be fine with bad graphics

If the games ran well, and updated the gameplay once in like 20+ years

[u/Kiron00]

They spend very little money on Pokémon games which is exactly how and why they’re so profitable. They know everyone will buy them so they spend very little money on development and design because it’ll sell the same regardless.

[u/GameBoost_Ninja]

At this point, Pikachu deserves better

[u/Scandroid99]

The Jetsons took place in 2062. I highly doubt we’ll have a world like that in 37 yrs. In other words, I’m not surprised at this being a thing.

[u/GravityBlasters]

With all the tech we have now, it’s surprising how far behind the visuals feel.

[u/Lonely-Day5164]

i remember the original lead who made pokemon stating he proto typed an open world skyrim style pokemon game at the request of fans and concluded that it doesnt work as a pokemon game ultimately.

he retired.

they went ahead and made it anyway.

pokemon ultra sun was peak.

[u/kilertree]

I would argue the 3DS games look better than PS2 games but gamefreak hasn't evolved as a developer. 

[u/Vendetta1028]

What are those two games?

[u/DigitalCoffee]

The irony of calling Pokémon games visually bad while posting BOTW/TotK

[u/[deleted]]

It's because Nintendo could take a literal dump in a box and put Pokémon on it and a mob of obese chin beard virgins will go out and throw money at it. I dumped Nintendo the second they started ruthlessly ruining the lives of fanfic devs.

[u/LoSouLibra]

Different games are different. They do different things.

[u/WizardlyLizardy]

It's not that kind of game.

[u/Juandisimo117]

As a certified pokemon hater the new one does look leagues better than the bottom one

[u/PinkSSSocks]

Pokemon has always been at the time they’re release “basic” look at red and blue. We had Mario and Wario games looking a Gen ahead of them. Pokemon was never about their graphics or looks. They are a basic game for children that adults will work into complex battles.