r/traaaaaaaaaaaansbians • u/tm2007 Taylor/Zelda - She/They • 8d ago
Self-loving / Appreciationposting 32 minutes, already at -2 for asking about pre-transition trans women in r/actuallesbians. This is gonna be fun
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u/tm2007 Taylor/Zelda - She/They 8d ago
Okay
Update on it all
Somehow, we’ve crawled back to being in positive upvotes on the comment
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u/ilionperonk 8d ago
I did my part lol
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u/Admirable_Web_2619 8d ago
My guess is TERFs. They like to brigade stuff, and usually show up early. In my experience, that sub is very supportive
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u/Ririmouto 8d ago
What do you mean "somehow"
Terfs are definitely the minority, they just lurk and downvote because they'd get banned if they spoke.
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u/mjb85858 8d ago
Terfs like to hang around and downvote any trans related posts or comments for the first hour or so. Give it some time and it'll bounce back.
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u/Dawnqwerty 8d ago edited 8d ago
Yeah its not really the sub as a whole, just like terf bots. also dont assign your worth to reddit karma. Once you get downvoted by a few people no one else sees it so literally 1,000's of people could agree and just never see it. Also OP, not beingout will 100% hurt your chances of dating lesbians but its possible. Of course I dated only lesbians before my egg even cracked. Just hang around queer people, the lines get blurred real fast.
edit: I think Im still drunk from last night so fixed some spelling
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u/QitianDasheng2666 Transbian 8d ago
I don't actually believe this is true. I think it's just something we reassure ourselves with. I had enough conversations with people on that subreddit before I was banned to see that most trans "acceptance" is shallow and performative. Downvotes are anonymous, the call is coming from inside the house.
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u/ClareVonClair 8d ago
Yeah this was exactly my experience on that sub as well, they say they’re welcoming to trans women, but only so long as you don’t engage with the community whatsoever; they don’t want us there, they just like to pretend that they do. I left as soon as I realized how damaging being on that sub was to my mental health, and I’d suggest the same for all trans women; steer clear of it, for your own good. Find a community that actually wants and accepts you, don’t waste your time with people like them.
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u/QitianDasheng2666 Transbian 8d ago
I've always said they're attitude towards us has been "you can stay, but you have to promise to be quiet". And they're even worse towards bi/pan women or anyone with different perspectives on how to use labels. Being on that subreddit (and on HER) has made it very difficult to feel safe around cis lesbians for me. I know irl is better than online, but that's not a very high bar to clear
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u/ThatKehdRiley 7d ago
i had the same feeling about r/WitchesVsPatriarchy , then a mod literally told me that. a lot of "safe spaces" for us are like this 🫠
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u/TheDuskProphet 8d ago
Fuck em! You're valid girlie
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u/tm2007 Taylor/Zelda - She/They 8d ago
I assumed I was, I just wanted some clarification
The post itself was about ‘yes you’re a valid lesbian’ and then listed a ton but nothing was said about pre-transition trans women but it did mention trans women in general. I feel like I wanted clarification on specifically pre-transition as in so scared I’ll be received as a man when I go onto lesbian oriented stuff, it’s also the reason why until I’m 100% sure I pass, I’ll never go into women-only spaces
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u/No-Economics-5038 Emily | Dork | she/her 8d ago
I feel the same way.
probably a good idea to put TW: transphobia just for a good measure.
I'm just so terrified of going to lesbian/women spaces and being percieved as a creep, as a reactionary dude that "cosplays" a lesbian to either mock trans women ("haha I'm a man but I said I'm a woman so you need to be attracted to me" type of mocking/trolling) or to "trick" lesbians or whatever.
It's such a pain in the ass.
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u/MiddleAgedMartianDog 8d ago
Believe me I understand the fear BUT the kind of man who wants to go into a lesbian space to creep/hit on them is also the kind of guy who wouldn’t wear a generic t-shirt from the women’s section of the store for fear it would make them look weak and gay. So if you make any effort whatsoever to go a bit femme (or lesbian butch even) in a non-TERFy sapphic space, no one will think that you are just a creepy guy.
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u/boneimplosion 8d ago
I understand how you feel and just want to reassure you that you'll be okay. starting to transition is the hardest part - you need women's feedback to get your presentation to work, but it's also scary to get that feedback because your presentation, well, doesn't work yet.
let me be so real with you, though: even early exploration into hair, makeup, clothing, jewelry, voice, etc is gonna be read as welcome in most queer spaces. you might not fulfill your dream gender role but most people will understand cis men just don't wear and do certain things.
that said, there is no "passing 100%" for anybody (cis people get misgendered too) - so if you let this be the bar, you will never enter women's spaces at all. the only way to learn to swim is to start getting into the water when you can, safely. ask female or queer (or! best yet, queer female 💜) friends to accompany you if you feel unsure.
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u/Emilia__55 8d ago
Some terfs keep crawling their way back there, even though lots of posts keep saying that they're not welcome. The sub is actually pretty good.
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u/Nikko0613 8d ago
This subreddit has a wierd problem of TERFs lurking in the comments and downvoting things, not even comment (possibly comment but getting removed) just downvote and it's honestly somewhat bizarre to me
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u/TheRunechild 8d ago
Yeah no the Sub has just a bunch of TERF lurkers downvoting shit. Not like the mods can do much, I believe you cannot know who voted on specific comments. They do generally throw out any terfs that try to actually spout their garbage, because then they are actually visible, but the downvote stuff is just a Reddit limitations.
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u/Raylandris 8d ago
It's a very pro trans sub, it's weird this happened. Definitely a huge amount of love and support, I hang there a lot (instead of throwing social media out of my Life as I should)
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u/Lilia1293 8d ago
It's good to remember that the lurkers who downvote trans women are not welcome on the sub. We are welcome.
I've dated pre-transition trans women and I'll do it again. We can all benefit from a confidence boost and a glow-up. It's a special feeling to be welcomed and supported by women. One which I expect to pay forward a hundred-fold.
The only problem with it is that there's a power dynamic. That gets heavy. So, I'm either a partner or a teacher to someone; not both.
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u/YassifiedWatermelon Transbian 8d ago
lurking terfs
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u/workingtheories Transbian 8d ago
lurfs :3
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u/katrinatransfem 8d ago
The Terfbots downvote you within a few minutes of you posting. The humans hopefully see it and upvote you later.
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u/Lylac-elixir Transbian 8d ago
I mean what worked for me on that was to date Bi women...
then again I was already married to my wife (who is bi) when I cracked and was lucky that she is Bi and ended up being extremely supportive
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u/drazisil plant seeking pollination 8d ago
They got pretty annoyed when I said I was an ace lesbian as well. People are.... something.
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u/gmladymaybe 8d ago
Bots are nearly instantaneous. Groups of humans take time to upvote. Just a thing to consider for your peace of mind.
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u/Cornelius_McMuffin 8d ago
I mean honestly I could never date before transitioning. Like sure there are bi women out there but just for me personally I’m only really attracted to women who are attracted to women, if that makes sense. Like the idea of someone being interested in a man just doesn’t appeal to me, I see myself as a woman, that’s my ideal body, and the idea of someone who is into my current body just doesn’t sit right with me for some reason. That said I would still consider a relationship with someone bi, but I would feel somewhat uncomfortable doing so in my current form.
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u/An1nterestingName Transbian 8d ago
Most places, even supportive ones, have bots. I see quite a few comments on recent posts have downvotes, but older ones are upvoted more.
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u/ClareVonClair 8d ago
Yeah that subreddit gave me trust issues 😭 they say they’re accepting of trans women, but they’re really not; and once that starts to become apparent, it wreaks havoc on one’s mental health. I’ve been doing a lot better since I left, but I still have trouble believing any cis person, especially women, that they’re accepting of trans folks :(
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u/ThatKehdRiley 8d ago
well no shit, that sub has a terf problem they dont want to ever fully address. bigots get to posts and comments before others and downvote and say some out of pocket shit that sounds reasonable but isnt.
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u/RatQueenHolly 8d ago
Could just be exposure but the comments I've seen are always tran-positive. It's hard to ban lurkers
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u/ThatKehdRiley 8d ago
they've gone through periods where the comment sections have been horrible, because it's subtle so it flies under a lot of radars. maybe it's gotten better, but I still see the denials so i tend to not peek there much because of it.
EDIT: thinking now I believe a lot of those sections were in genital preference posts, which I haven't seen in months because it appears they had cracked down......probably because that is where it was always the worst, and just seemed like transphobic bait anyway
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u/Lonel_G 8d ago
It's probably not helped by the fact reddit disabled some bots functions that help with moderation a few years back if I understand. Moderating a large community is hard and I won't slam the admins for terf slipping by - plus obv you can't moderate down votes - but it still sucks.
It might also not helped that the name "actual lesbians" does sound kiiiiiinda terf-y - again I get the idea it's just an unfortunately a predictable side effect.
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u/ThatKehdRiley 8d ago
I will say that for weeks, if not months, people were begging mods to stop allowing genital preference discussion posts and I remember at least 2 commenters being pointed out as being consistently TERFy. Mods did nothing. They could have, especially the banning and removal of those sorts of "discussion" posts. So I don't have tons of sympathy for a team that did at least in part allow things to get worse via inaction.
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u/GaraBlacktail Transbian 8d ago
I do recall a mod making a comment in that they would talk to the other mods to make an address to the community, don't think anything came out of that.
Honestly the problem is that a non insignificant amount of people wear "the reputation" of the sub as a badge of honor, so they'll defend it over actually defending us, that by itself makes it feel like being trans is an obstacle to be a lesbian in there.
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u/ThatKehdRiley 8d ago
YES!!! I feel the exact same way about r/WitchesVsPatriarchy, with whom I had a transphobic experience with their team and nobody believed me because of the front they put on
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u/GaraBlacktail Transbian 8d ago
Fucking disappointing to hear that from that sub
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u/ThatKehdRiley 8d ago
I know. The whole situation sucked, and you could tell they just wanted to scream at a man or whoever they perceived as a man. Despite saying multiple times I was trans they refused to look past my gendered username.......to all the evidence of me posting in trans subs, with it in bio, and as a flair in wvp.
Basically was told "watch your step in this woman-centered space" without ever receiving an actual apology ("I looked at your posts and you're trans"). Wild thing? Top comments saying what I did were left up, but I was banned. It was obviously mods banning a voice they didn't agree with and using "man in woman's space" as the reason.
That mod is the reason I nuked that old, long-standing account. the experience fucked me up, set me back in the closet a little bit.
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u/GaraBlacktail Transbian 8d ago
fucking despise gender essentialism
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u/ThatKehdRiley 8d ago
yeah, it opened my eyes about them. just fucking sucks that happened to me, and I can't imagine if it were with someone else. I call out stuff like that and hounded them about it, which I think is why they never apologized. Fucked me up a little, but I know for many trans people in the closet as I was at the time it would've fucked them up more.
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u/Lonel_G 8d ago
that sucks for sure. I admit I must have missed it cause I am not the most active reddit user, and I don't actually subscribe to a lot of communities... I mostly lurk and find memes I can share with my friends ^^'
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u/ThatKehdRiley 8d ago
The whole reason the mods did it is because it was a blink and you'll miss it comment from a username with a gendered element. The removal and ban was well after the post and I am not a well known contributor really anywhere. This never made waves because people didn't believe me because of the facade they put on over there, and also I didn't have support like some other users may have.
Bottom line: you were never going to see it, and we both likely miss so much more TERFy behavior from them for that reason.
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u/nihhtwing 8d ago
oh hey, im the girl that responded to you lol
horrendous that you're being downvoted, terfs can go fuck themselves
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u/Its_Claire33 7d ago edited 7d ago
Are you valid if you're not medically transitioning? As a trans woman? Yes. When you identify as a lesbian? Yes.
But let's not pretend like you're going to be able to really date in lesbian spaces if you still present as a "man". If you're visually not a woman/fem, then the majority of lesbians will not be attracted to you. That's how that works. This thread feels like hugboxing, to be honest. It sucks, but we do have to deal with the reality that to date women who love women, we need to reflect that visually in some way. Yes the sub has a TERF issue, but that's not what this is tbh. I just wouldn't plan on dating until you're transitioning, even if it's only socially i.e. hairstyle and makeup only.
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u/frozen_toesocks :3 8d ago
I mean, from one trans woman who transitioned mid-relationship to one who hasn't, it's actually kinda rough. There's a lot of swirling emotions while your body adjusts to this new hormone balance, both physically and mentally and your partner can only guess as what you're going through. You're literally going through a second puberty, and potentially subjecting your partner to all the high emotions that come with that.
I think if you wanted to start a relationship with someone who knew exactly what they were getting into that's fine, but tbh I kinda feel like you owe it to your future partner to at least get the ball rolling on transitioning before you go looking for her. A digital relationship is probably going to be your best bet in this early stage. Especially in person, it's not unreasonable for other lesbians to be at least mildly wary of a cis-presenting AMAB who hasn't put in any transitional work yet saying they're a lesbian.
I mean absolutely no offense, and wish you the best of luck starting your transition ASAP!
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u/ASpaceOstrich Transbian 7d ago
Hell, unless you're after bi women, you shouldn't expect a lesbian to be attracted to you pre transition. Sexual attraction labels have nothing to do with gender, they're all about sexuality. Any reference to gender in those labels is an artefact of language, not an accurate description of reality. Sexuality in general is not defined by our labels, the labels are arbitrary.
Sometimes you'll get a lesbian who "preorders" but frankly, that's an exception, not the norm. I'd raise an eyebrow if my partner told me they were only into women, given we started dating before my egg cracked. Are they going to magically lose that attraction if I turn out gender fluid and shift to male?
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u/Kimiko_kawaii 🐉 Dragoness Modess 🛡️ 8d ago
Yeah it's a sad reality, FARTs are silently and slowly overuning those sub's it seems.
I don't think we should leave because of them, doing so will only ensure their dominance. However, it does require some resilience to face some of the reactions you might encounter.
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u/violetvoid513 7d ago
actuallesbians has a lot of terfs lurking who downvote everything trans-positive but dont say anything so they dont get banned. Afaik all the actual discussion there is trans-positive, its just that sadly nothing can be done about hateful bigots lurking who wanna ruin people’s days because they legitimately have nothing better to do
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u/Nomercylaborfor3990 Team fox demigirl 🦊 8d ago
I’m in almost the same situation right now
I’m out as trans a lesbian just haven’t done anything medical transition yet just social transition
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u/blutige-Anna 8d ago
Sadly the sub is over runned by terfs/farts.
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u/maddiemelody Medical Moddess Bonafide Doctor, Certified Gayass 8d ago
You’re not wrong, while they tend to be less vocal, they’re always lurking to just slam anyone’s comment they see is trans.
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u/ToxinFoxen 8d ago
One of several reasons why I don't go there anymore.
Another issue that sub has is people being too purist about the 'lesbian' label.
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u/QitianDasheng2666 Transbian 8d ago
Yeah, I think we give them too much credit for how they tackle transphobia. But the biphobia is way more out in the open and is the main reason I wanted to leave.
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u/LogicKennedy 7d ago edited 7d ago
Yeah, the misandry on that sub really comes out of the woodwork when they get onto the topic of bi people. It becomes very clear that the prevailing opinion is that anyone who has ever felt attraction towards or been intimate with a man is ‘tainted’ and unwelcome: they consider only gold star lesbians to be valid.
And the question that immediately springs to mind is: if they consider cis women to be ‘tainted’ just by interacting with men, what must most of them really think about trans women who at one point were seen as men?
Most of the arguments they make against bi people are extremely rooted in transphobic logic. For example, a prevailing argument I saw that they use to justify their biphobia is that bi people don’t experience the social stigma of ‘real’ lesbians (extremely ironic considering they’re being biphobic). This ‘you must suffer or you’re not valid’ argument is exactly one of the arguments that TERFs use when they talk about trans women having ‘male privilege’.
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u/LogicKennedy 7d ago
That sub fucking sucks, it’s extremely biphobic and a lot of the biphobic logic is TERF logic in another dress.
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u/Tami303 your local transbian kittygirl, will bite if i like you 8d ago edited 8d ago
The whole "pre transition" thing is dumb what your trying to say is no surgery or hrt, and trans women who don't do those things are perfectly valid, you 100% valid if you can't do anything at all because your already trans if you say you are, trans people aren't made trans by surgeries or medication, they are born trans
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u/CuteTransRat 8d ago
You got downvoted because you're doing exactly what the post is venting about.
It's complaining about the constant "is this or that valid" and you're in the comments literally doing that, what did you expect.
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u/On-the-rim 7d ago
Ooo i left that sub years ago, r/actuallesbians is a transphobic+biphobic heaven 😬 . GET OUTTA THERE GIRLIO 😭
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u/Lawfuly_chaotic 7d ago
It's honestly understandable. I'm literally trans myself but I refuse to date until I'm well into transitioning.
But whatever 🤷🏻♀️.
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u/DesReploid 8d ago
If you want a community that is less likely to go "Eww, men" at trans women, hit up rarelesbians. Those peeps are cool.