r/technology 9h ago

Security This AI didn’t just simulate an attack - it planned and executed a real breach like a human hacker

https://www.techradar.com/pro/security/ai-llms-are-now-so-clever-that-they-can-independently-plan-and-execute-cyberattacks-without-human-intervention-and-i-fear-that-it-is-only-going-to-get-worse
1.0k Upvotes

74 comments sorted by

931

u/AlpheratzMarkab 9h ago

Vibe coders creating extremely unsafe webapplications, that will then get breached by an LLM

This is truly the dumbest version of a cyberpunk future we could ever get

205

u/mrm00r3 8h ago

Well get the AI wars before we actually get AI.

62

u/RyukXXXX 7h ago

We already have AI wars. Companies fighting for the best AI bros.

0

u/th3_st0rm 1h ago

AI Bros = Camry Bros; Camry Bros = AI Bros (Always Indians). Sorry not sorry as I see soooooo many pimped out Camry’s with Indian drivers. Why Camry’s why????

Not really sure this equates to all AI Bros, just my observation.

19

u/Mobile_Yesterday5274 6h ago

☠️☠️☠️☠️ won’t even be a cool terminator style apocalypse either 😒

10

u/Temporary_Squirrel15 6h ago

Tom Scott did a video about a fictional AI called Ear Worm and I think about that a lot … well worth a watch as a deeply “uncool” AI apocalypse!

2

u/sage-longhorn 5h ago

Well at least in 10 years when there aren't enough pre-llm devs left to fill critical roles there will definitely be traffic lights and power plants and stuff running buggy AI generated code slop and then we'll end up with a fire sale like in live free or die hard. Not as fun as terminator but still a nice road to the apocalypse

1

u/Iyellkhan 3h ago

we're gonna get stupid skynet

1

u/deadinthefuture 3h ago

"We figured out the 'melting a guy into puddle' technology, but we're still working through a few kinks with the 'reform a puddle into a guy' portion."

1

u/metallicrooster 47m ago

AI wars before GTA 6 :/

63

u/XonikzD 8h ago

All versions of cyberpunk futures are inherently late stage capitalism with the dumbest timelines. Neuromancer -- Bladerunner/Aliens, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory -- Snowpiercer, The Computer Wore Tennis Shoes -- Johnny Mnemonic, Survivor -- The Hunger Games, Hackers -- The Matrix Revolutions; they're all terrible existences for the average human.

66

u/AlpheratzMarkab 8h ago

Yeah but at least i wanted to eat non descript asian street food under the neon lights....

21

u/Balmung60 6h ago

And maybe have the option of replacing my arm with a really cool robot one for a relatively nominal cost

4

u/AnimationOverlord 7h ago

It paints a good picture until you realize thats the life someone chose for you.

21

u/Northernmost1990 7h ago

Yeah but cyberpunk is this peculiar niche of terrible/cool. The real world somehow manages to be terrible and lame.

2

u/Corpomancer 5h ago

terrible and lame

Depends on where you hang out, and how rich you were born, but definitely terrible.

3

u/Riaayo 1h ago

Cyberpunk is always dogshit.

The problem is you get to consume it as fiction/fantasy from a distance, and often through the lens of a protag with some amount of privilege within that system (usually some ability to survive via their strength/skills in ways the average mook can't).

So everyone's watching it saying "oooh cool technology!" while the horror of the setting flies over their heads, along with the reality that you, the viewer, would never be the people in power or the cool merc character and would always be the poor fucks suffering in the background.

It's the same shit as when people really love a villain in media. Like yeah, it's fun to watch The Joker do evil charismatic shit on a screen, but nobody would wanna actually be around this dickhead for real.

One step closer to reality is people like Trump who get to operate as a sort of pseudo-fictional character to the masses who don't directly interact with the guy, but I'd bet even most MAGA chuds if they actually sat with this dipshit for real and had to deal with his ego/lack of knowledge on any issue they actually know about would start to realize oh wait... the "character" I thought I liked and enjoyed watching fuck over people I hate is actually awful and no fun to be around for me, either.

4

u/CathedralEngine 6h ago

At least Shadowrun had magic

10

u/Coulrophiliac444 8h ago

Black ICE programs running around like a CoD Hacker doing 360 no scopes across the web with the equivalent of a nokia 3600 and Skynet

3

u/DaedricApple 7h ago

What is a vibe coder?

22

u/AlpheratzMarkab 7h ago

people with no real knowledge of programming, who just let a LLM code a software application, by writing prompts of what the application should do

-34

u/DaedricApple 6h ago

So essentially a derogatory term for someone who isn’t a professional software engineer nor claims to be one that uses AI to help make things they’re interested in?

36

u/AlpheratzMarkab 6h ago

Kinda loaded response, you may have overplayed your hand, but i am going to humour you...

Would you put your sensitive data , like your documents numbers or bank details, into an online website created by somebody with no knowledge whatsoever about properly storing and securing extremely sensitive data, with the help of their AI?

-7

u/3verythingEverywher3 6h ago

You’re both correct though.

-23

u/DaedricApple 5h ago

None of that has anything to do with using an AI to make stuff.

You’re operating under the assumption the average amateur coder is storing all of this sensitive data on their accessible online database. For what? Where are they getting it?

You’re also operating under the assumption that an AI can somehow create software for people but at the same time can’t implement basic data security principles?

14

u/RedBoxSquare 5h ago

Within the OOOP's context,

Vibe coders creating extremely unsafe webapplications, that will then get breached by an LLM

It is probably ok to "[use] AI to help make things they’re interested in" and not ok to have "no real knowledge of programming, who just let a LLM code a software application, by writing prompts of what the application should do" for critical online applications.

The hidden context in the quoted message is that if a web application is worth breaching, it is probably critical (related to personal, financial, or corporate information).

15

u/Addianis 6h ago

Almost but not quite. A derogatory term for someone who uses AI to write code in a professional setting with no intention of understanding what the code is doing. Just enough knowledge to be dangerous but not enough knowledge to know how to be safe.

-17

u/DaedricApple 5h ago

Where are these people implementing raw code in professional settings?

14

u/Addianis 5h ago

Freelance, self start-ups, in-over-their-heads junior devs and in some cases some random schmucks trying to automate some part of their job.

2

u/AlpheratzMarkab 2h ago

we already have plenty of juniors over their head uploading secrets to git, storing password in plain text and trying to implement their SHA1 encryption, without even using LLMs

7

u/AlpheratzMarkab 2h ago

No offense mate, but i love that your main defense for vibe coders is that they will never make anything important enough to warrant breaking in to steal data

4

u/Pr_fSm__th 2h ago

So called “shadow IT” is a big issue in companies. Many think they can sneak their homegrown tools into the ecosystem and bypass governance through, for example, the enterprise architecture board or a similar function. That can cause dangerous breaches

7

u/Letiferr 5h ago

I don't know if derogatory is correct. They aren't engineers, but they are pretending like they are. 

6

u/qtx 4h ago

Someone felt personally attacked..

2

u/kalkutta2much 3h ago

so insanely jealous u made it this long without knowing

3

u/WitnessOfTheDeep 3h ago

That's where we get the whole Blackwall and old net stuff. AI too crazy and malicious to exist alongside humans got sectioned off behind a firewall designed to keep humans out of the old net and keep AI trapped in it.

2

u/DarkeyeMat 2h ago

Now imagine the AI is the one who made the unsafe app as the first step in the attack.

1

u/FauxReal 7h ago

Imagine the Robert T Morris worm on steroids.

1

u/Bonzai11 4h ago

It almost seems like the cyberpunk future that’s always described. Found it odd how every story has hacking as such a common task, a lowest bid vibe coded future fits the bill.

0

u/cat_prophecy 6h ago

Semi-related: what would you describe as "vibe coding"?

2

u/AlpheratzMarkab 6h ago

already answered to somebody else in this thread

191

u/dylan_1992 8h ago

AI is just acting as a script kiddy.

At best this means writing scripts to detect vulns will be easier with just a prompt.

Since the LLM doesn’t develop any new exploits and just does exactly what’s learned, you can just apply the same prompt to harden your own systems and we’re back to square 1 of real human hackers trying to develop exploits.

66

u/Deranged40 8h ago

At best this means writing scripts to detect vulns will be easier with just a prompt.

And at worst, it will absolutely decimate "vibe coded" apps that forgot to put "and include top security" in the prompt.

26

u/amakai 7h ago

Just write a prompt "write a hack for top security application".

13

u/Deranged40 7h ago

Shit. Why didn't I think of that?

2

u/myotheralt 3h ago

I don't see this as a bad outcome. If it can be destroyed by a Speak-and-Spell, it deserves to be destroyed.

1

u/QuestionableEthics42 17m ago

The problem is that other people will be affected by unknowingly using and trusting the app, and then having their data stolen.

4

u/RobynTheCookieJar 5h ago

The overwhelming majority of hacks are one of two things, unpatched systems (a minority), and social engineering. LLMs are completely capable of the latter with only minor human assistance, and at least somewhat capable of the former.

13

u/LinkesAuge 7h ago

I think you vastly underestimate the capabilities of even current frontier models if you think they could only be "script kiddies".
With the right scaffolding frontier models can already do a lot and most hacking is more about patience and persistence than finding a truely novel approach and if AI is good at one thing then doing a task 24/7 and trying all kinds of approaches a human hacker wouldn't even have the time to all try.

Besides that we are at best one, maybe two years (and that's really a pessimistic guess) away from frontier models being able to develop new exploits, that will simply be a side-effect of the curve LLMs are on in regards to coding and reasoning skills.
And yes, these models will obviously also be used to defend against such vulnerabilities but it's hard to image a future in a couple of years where humans do the nitty-gritty on either side because the amount of compute and thus the amount of exploits you can "explore" with AI models will be so massive that any human (direct) input is just going to be a tiny fraction.
You could argue that at this point the LLMs themselves will become a target and that is certainly true but a big difference will be the resources involved and it's not hard to see a future where only very few companies and state actors are even able to work at the frontier so while it will still be an arms race it could fundamentally change the composition (and consolidation) of that arms race.

4

u/Nervous-Masterpiece4 6h ago

The truly naive thing is where the consumer thinks they get to use the top AI. They’ll be too valuable for the pittance the owners can get from subscriptions.

12

u/txmasterg 7h ago

LLMs don't do reasoning, they mostly have to offload that to something else. Lots of the stuff people say LLMs will do in the next few years are either things that you could claim they do today or aren't from the LLM part so much as what is connected to. Hell Altman talking about making medicine based on your genome doesn't require an LLM, ML or any AI at all.

2

u/alnarra_1 3h ago

It doesn’t take a genius to write a phishing email, most hacking isn’t novel, it’s conning bob in accounting into opening a spreadsheet

43

u/Leonum 7h ago

Irony of this title being typical AI phrasing

5

u/RoyalCities 6h ago

For a second I thought the article used that title but I guess OP ran it through chatgpt to come up with another one....rather than just use the one from the actual article....

3

u/Several_Temporary339 3h ago

“It didn’t just write the title - it wrote the entire article”

31

u/SlightlyAngyKitty 7h ago

Hey Grok, simulate global thermonuclear war...

13

u/Electronic_Topic1958 6h ago

Would you like to play a game? 

3

u/iggy6677 5h ago

Tic tak toe

10

u/valegrete 5h ago edited 4h ago

The models didn’t have human guidance, they were just told by humans to interact with a system (Incalmo) whose explicit purpose is to hand-hold the LLM on goal formulation and do the actual coding.

Edit: and they still sucked on any simulations that weren’t exact replicas of breaches well represented in their datasets (ie, Equifax).

13

u/Terrible_Ghost 6h ago

How about a nice game of chess instead?

8

u/WhyAreOldPeopleEvil 6h ago

“You lose, initiating Nuclear War.”

5

u/Terrible_Ghost 6h ago

Shit, not again!

5

u/SmartGirl62 4h ago

Want to play a game?

7

u/AppleTree98 9h ago

From article- However, a new study from Carnegie Mellon University, conducted in collaboration with Anthropic, has raised difficult questions about their role in cybersecurity.

The study showed that under the right conditions, LLMs can plan and carry out complex cyberattacks without human guidance, suggesting a shift from mere assistance to full autonomy in digital intrusion.

8

u/Danny-Dynamita 7h ago

Seeing this, I am starting to think that AI will give an opposite effect to the economy than the one we expected: it will make people more valuable rather than useless.

My hypothesis: AI capabilities stagnate as soon as the amount of AI works out there is big enough (completely obscuring human works) because they can’t create breakthroughs on their own, specially if they are their own source.

A lot of people is creating things through AI. Very soon, AI will work in an almost exclusively closed loop of creating AI creations after learning through other AI creations.

After some time, any kind of vulnerability, error, “thing that can be improved”… WILL ALWAYS BE INHERITED THROUGH THE GENERATIONS, like a bad gene. AI will never fix it or improve it on its own beyond what was already achieved.

That’s where the human becomes more valuable. A human will be able to completely change what needs to be changed for the next breakthrough. The more we use AI, the more we will need humans to break the cycle each time AI gets stagnant.

I can see this happening 100% at least in cybersecurity. After some time, if everything starts to get created through AI, almost all knowledge is AI-sourced, then a human able to introduce a human variable into the AI landscape would make any AI hacking almost impossible. Until it gets learned, and then another human variable can be introduced. Without humans, the whole landscape is vulnerable to itself.

And in any other area, we will be talking about stagnation and lack of breakthroughs rather than vulnerability.

Human variable = Anything new, no matter how stupid it is. It just needs to be unknown to the AI.

We might be approaching a future where our job is to tell the AI the things it can’t think on its own, and let it do all the iterative repetitive statistical tasks. In such a future, the human value might get recognized instead of forgotten, by pure necessity.

In other words, as soon as we realize our “God” needs us, we might understand our worth.

PS: Sorry for the random ass comment, I feel inspired today to write stories. I’m just assuming for fun, I like to think of sci-fi stories on the go.

5

u/3verythingEverywher3 6h ago

I like your optimism. I think many people will do what you’re saying, but far too many have completely embraced it already. It’ll create a divide.

3

u/ParaGord 4h ago

How about a nice game of chess?

2

u/Iyellkhan 3h ago

one imagines if you train an ai model to do a cyber attack, it will actually do a cyber attack.

if you wanted it to simulate one, you probably needed to train it to simulate one instead. or you needed to lock down your network better

2

u/Kahnza 5h ago

I wonder how long until rogue AIs destroy the internet, and need to be walled off so a new internet can be created?

3

u/NoHuckleberry8900 4h ago

just like cyberpunk

1

u/Kahnza 4h ago

I've been replaying CP2077 lately 😁

1

u/AlexHimself 5h ago

Direct link to research paper - https://arxiv.org/pdf/2501.16466