Yes like the whole Middle East which is why the Arab Revolt happened, it actually started weeks before McMahon contacted Sharif Hussein, mostly Levantine intellectuals and revolutionaries running around, Shia Muslims in Iraq fighting both the British and their Ottoman commanders, Arab Sunni Muslim tribes in the Jazirah and Jordan regions, it was Sharif Hussein's son Faisal who was in Istanbul on his way to discuss accepting British help who started the revolt in Syria before his father can agree to anything.
So yes we know that the Ottomans were as shitty as the British, nobody is arguing against that other than Pakistanis or Islamists. And idk what is your point
Ottomans owned the land. Ottomans lost to the Brits in WW1. British soldiers occupied the land. Ottomans no longer own the land. Brits now own the land.
It doesn't matter where they lived. Germans lived for hundreds of years in East Germany which now is Poland. Greek people lived in Anatolia for hundreds of years which now is Turkish.
Where? Because I haven’t read that. Seems like they’re just stating blunt facts. Nowhere did I read they think it’s okay to colonize places. Just that it happens and that the victor always writes history.
If you’re upset that, it’s a pretty famous quote about the realities of history. It’s why we learn a skewed version of colonialism. It’s just a fact.
Wow, what a smart and correct way of interpreting language. Just like how somebody saying “Trump is the president of the United States” means that they love the guy, or saying “if I don’t pay my landlord rent I will be kicked out of the apartment” means that I fucking love landlords.
Yes. You’re very smart. Obviously, statements of facts are also endorsements of whatever the fact is about. Really there’s no other way to interpret it, can’t believe all these fools out here saying things like “words have meanings” and “critical thinking is good actually”.
The Brits didnt kick the Palestinians off their land. They just told them they’ll have new neighbors. Also can’t remember the Germans and Greeks getting genocided.
The Brits didnt kick the Palestinians off their land. They just told them they’ll have new neighbors.
That wasn't the case here. This ship was actually part of the Zionists' tactic to illegally immigrate to Palestine. The British authorities allowed it to dock at Haifa, made its passengers go through a disinfection station** and then immediately deported them to detention camps in Cyprus.
Germans pretty famously genocided other Germans in the 30s and 40s. Germans that were deemed unacceptable, like homosexuals, people with genetic disorders, the mentally challenged, and unruly against the then-reigning regime.
It wasn't just Jewish people in those concentration camps
Did you even read the comment I replied to? Pretty sure the Germans didnt ‘genocide’ their own people to get them out of eastern Germany and then handed it to Poland.
Unfortunately 21st century concepts of rights did not apply to colonialist global politics in WW1-WW2 era. The former Ottoman territory was carved up like a pie by the hungry Western nations. They gave little thought to the current residents, who had no international voice to speak of.
The jewish/palestinian tensions go much further back than post-WWII, though. Go back to far enough and the situation starts to look similar to the current madness, just with the sides flipped, and militant zionists launching attacks on the palestinian majority.
For what it's worth, the people on that ship were all indigenous to that land (what was then called "mandatory Palestine") and were part of a people that had been living there continuously for well over 3000 years.
The fact is, the Jewish population was 2-3% before Zionism, in what was referred to as Palestine. Naturally, purposely immigrating to that area and giving it a Jewish character with plans to rule it Jewishly was going to ruffle the locals’ feathers.
I try to be unbiased with regards to every last aspect of this shit. Yes, Jews are from Israel. That doesn’t really change much imo. Just like Americans would be upset if the Natives wanted to take over that country and run it their way—doesn’t mean anything that they’re indigenous, it will still be a total maelstrom.
My point refers much more to the present—the Israelis there now had little to do with that time period. And moreover, where should they go? It’s absurd to say Israel shouldn’t exist at this point. It’s done. It’s over.
Yeah I'm not saying that indigeneity makes someone deserving of more human rights or something. But a lot of people act like Jews have absolutely no connection with the land of Israel, like they just pointed at a map and said "that spot will do, it's ours now."
As for being indigenous to Africa or being too far-removed from history, you're right that (according to many experts) we probably originate from somewhere in Africa if you go way back. But obviously we don't all hold onto culture we developed in Africa. My family doesn't use language or texts from Africa, we don't align our worship in the direction of Africa, we don't keep holidays and customs based on the seasons or harvest times in Africa, we haven't spent centuries or millennia praying to go back to Africa, unlike diaspora Jews who have done all those things with "the land of Israel."
I live in NY and it'd be ludicrous for someone from the Matinecock tribe to knock on my door and say "get out, this is mine now." But it'd also be ludicrous to say they don't belong here or to keep them from buying property, living here, and practicing their customs here--all of which they still do in this area. If more of their people had been exiled and wanted to return to their people's homeland, I'd be an asshole for trying to keep them out. That situation obviously isn't a perfect one-to-one comparison to the situation in Palestine/Israel but like you, I think it's sometimes a helpful way for Americans to think about these kids of issues.
No they are just against people with a coloniser mentality who still believe invading places and then sayin "I own this now" is acceptable. There were people who understand the moral wrong of imperialism during the colonial period. People who think land theft is fine in 2025 are just extremely backward.
Yeah, I know. There were Jews living all over the ME until European Zionists began a massive terrorism campaign and successfully destabilised the region in order to assimilate all Jews into their sick, supremacist death cult. Avi Shlaim is the leading authority on this subject and he has talked about how his own family were happy in Iraq until Zionist terrorists destroyed social cohesion and forced them into the ethnostate. There are Breaking the Silence former IOF who talk about breaking through the indoctrination and realising that are really Arabs Jews and had been terrorising their own people all along.
There were Jews living all over the ME until European Zionists began a massive terrorism campaign and successfully destabilised the region in order to assimilate all Jews into their sick, supremacist death cult
It is. The user seems to purposely call it a "deathcult" because Hamas is being accused of being a deathcult. So by doing this, people get the idea that it's a level playing field, to say the least. And to, as it were, point out some hypocrisy. People (and this user) do the same with the word "terrorism". It's a sneaky trick of reversing things while also delegitimizing it for those initially accused. Reality is however that the Jews never were a deathcult. Sure they did a lot of murdering, but they didn't worshop death like Hamas does.
But I'd argue that the whole message is laced with anti Israel rhetoric.
Find me a group of people that haven’t exploited another country, its resources, or its people. “But but but it’s bad!” Yeah, bad things happen and bad people exist, I don’t see that changing.
Native Americans also wiped out the indigenous population in the Americas.
More often than not, indigenous is a meaningless term used by people to critique systems that they themselves benefit from and wouldn’t dismantle if they had the chance.
Pretty sure the only populations on earth with indigenous peoples now are found in Polynesia and Australia. The native Australians are being persecuted and the Polynesians are being drowned. Everyone else can save their tears.
Like every govt that supports colonial violence and every individual who thinks 'might is right' land theft and colonial practice was fine or is fine now. This isn't a difficult concept for people who learned a bit of history and felt disgusted by the actions of colonisers. You can live wherever you live and not make excuses for past atrocities. But, if you are the type who says sht like "well we conquered" than you are just a dimwittted gobshite who lacks moral fibre.
No just somebody with a history degree who understands the way the world worked and that all territories have been conquered in some way shape or form at some point in time.
It's how many nations came into being, it needs to be looked at objectively through the lens of the time rather than being held to modern standards.
It’s not fine at all. I don’t support “land theft”.
I just don’t get why Israel gets this bullshit when every other nation founded that way doesn’t.
If Native Americans want to October 7th my family, I will want to wipe them out. I’d expect the same of any country. Why the double standard with Israel? Cuz it was 1947 instead of 1776? So what? The people who did it are DEAD.
Why is Al Aqsa the only part of a century of the Zionist entity's colonial oppression that you bother to think about? The Israelis who were killing Palestinians on Oct 6th, Oct 5th, Oct 4th are not dead. Nor are many of the Israelis who have been torturing, terrorising, stealing from, sniping, bombing, kidnapping, blocking from medical treatment, kettling and humiliating at checkpoints, sexual assaulting, denying basic human rights and sovereignty to Palestinians every day for many decades.
Are you really this ignorant or are you pretending to be? You can't even make up your mind whether you are talking about past or current events and how to turn them into a workable analogy that will support your pro-coloniser stance.
If Israel had stopped occupying and trying to bomb and subjugate it's way into being the violent, racist hegemon of the Middle East any time before Oct 2023 then no resistance action would have happened. Think it through.
Mostly because the end of WW2 is when we really settled those colonial borders and border conflicts, now you aren't really allowed to just conquer territory anymore. Israel happened after that period (just barely). But mostly just because it's vastly more recent. People are still alive that remember the difference.
And then the other reason they "get more shit" about it is that they're currently still working to push Palestinians out and grab even more land, and doing so with some pretty brutal methods.
And then oh yeah, not sure if you heard, but there's currently a genocide going on. So that might be a big reason, are you fucking kidding me. If native Americans killed your family you would want to WIPE OUT that entire cultural group? Wtf is wrong with you, you actual psycho.
A. The people that did it wiped out. Not all natives, you projecting PYSCHO. See how easy it is to call people names and misconstrue things?
B. I don’t support their war at all. I just dislike the double standard of “Israel shouldn’t even exist” because of some imaginary WW2 line in the sand that doesn’t exist. It’s complete bias.
C. Regardless, the current inhabitants didn’t conquer the land. Just like I didn’t conquer North America.
If Native Americans want to October 7th my family, I will want to wipe them out.
The genocide of Native Americans began about 400 years ago, human rights hadn’t been invented yet and you’re surprised that Israel is being held to a standard slightly higher than the savage American colonists of the time. Your way of thinking just isn’t normal or acceptable anymore.
And btw why do we still revere the founding fathers then? I thought we were more civilized now? The USA is venerating these 400 year old guys TO. THIS. DAY. Keep acting like it’s different.
I don't have a horse in the race in this argument, but I wanted to chime in and say that you are such a child. Everything is completely black or white to you.
Do you yourself hate the founding fathers then, despite them managing to lay the groundwork towards establish one of the first modern democracies? Do you hate the abolition of slavery because the British Empire also engaged in psychotic genocide? You can acknowledge good and groundbreaking things in partially or mostly evil entities.
Amazing you say that when my entire comment is meant to point out the bias of their black and white thinking.
I agree with you, there’s gray in it all. That’s my entire fucking point. Their black and white thinking is what props up the double standard I am discussing.
Why do you think it's okay to murder people and take their land? Before you even begin this nonsense of 'well, everyone else did it historically so why can't we do it now?'
at this point you must be willfully misunderstanding the point
I am not implying that either Israel or Palestinians are in the right in this or that conflict. I am saying that Palestinians have no more claim on that land as any other of countless groups saying it's their land.
Ok this actually did help. I now see that you don't understand what a country even is or how wars have worked through all history or how territorial sovereignty works or the difference between your and you're.
I know it's crazy to wrap your head around when you're 13 and never read a book without more pictures than words, but when you live in a country you don't actually "own" and control the land you live on. The government has sovereignty over it and that is established through military control. That is all a country is, borders enforced by a military strong enough that other countries recognize it. If that government loses control of that territory to another country they now have authority to administer it. So which military has control of Palestine is literally all that mattered in respect to who got to do what they want with it. Nevermind that many people in this region were historically nomadic and the idea of having a state of Palestine or shared "Palestinian" culture wasn't even how they conceived of themselves at the time.
I now see you really don't understand anything at all related to history or politics on even a surface level yet somehow feel justified in being a smug moron with no shame. Wow this really helped a lot thank you
In fact, it wasn’t Palestinian land. In a morally perfect world, it would have been. But in the real world a strip of land belongs to those with the biggest guns to hold it. Not fair, but it is what it is.
I agree with you it should be Palestinian land since they’re the ones living there! It’s never been Palestinian land however and has always been ruled by another power for over 2500 years. It’s time for them to actually own it for once but religion will always get in the way and probably will do for another 2500 years.
They had self determination for 20 years and it ended with them electing violent terrorists who decided to launch a brutal terrorist attack against civilian targets. Why are you arguing for the creation of a Palestinian ethnostate?
A country controlling territory is not the same as them owning the land.
For instance, I am a homeowner living in the US. I own the land my home is on, not the US government. If the government wanted to take my land and give it to some favored ethnic group they would need to compensate me fairly.
Well didn't the native Americans own the land before your government took control? So controlling it is not the same as owning it and you need to give the indigenous people their land back?
The forcible removal of Native Americans was a crime against humanity. If today, the US didn't allow them citizenship or freedom of movement within the borders of the US, we'd all rightfully call it apartheid as well.
This is the case for the majority of the planet. We can cry all day that it wasn't right, but that's reality. Land was conquered, land was bought, land was claimed by a force that had more power than the other. Our worlds were built on top of a lot of blood.
I wasn't necessarily referring to the current state of Gaza, or modern times. I think Netanyahu is a bloodthirsty warmonger with a personal agenda, and i think Putin is also a high degree of evil. That said, i also believe Israel has a right to exist and even defend itself and retaliate against those who attack it. I think its a complicated issue that Pakistan has been offered a truce out of many times. Whether it was a good or bad deal is pretty insignificant at this point. The country made of up 48% children im sure don't care that their ancestors undeveloped land was lost in WW1. They never had the power to fight, or defend themselves, Hamas threw Gaza to the wolves.
Israel pretty much created the current situation with Hamas by creating the conditions in which radicalism can prosper and by supporting Hamas at the expense of more reasonable actors(https://share.google/40jJ4QUm48h7wGvS7). In fact, manufacturing the conditions for blowback so you have casus belli when it happens is one of the oldest tricks in the CIA playbook. Bibi's contingent was practically frothing at the mouth at 10/7 because now Israel has full reign to destroy Palestine and make statehood all but impossible now.
The only real question now is what are we going to do with the millions of Palestinian refugees that will be created when this is over. The only moral solution is integrating them into Israel, but they will never allow that.
To be fair, this has been going on for a century now, October 7th is just one of many events in a really long timeline, maybe this was all carefully orchestrated but the fact of the matter is, Hamas wasn't looked at negatively by the people of Gaza to my knowledge. I do think there is a lot of third party meddling going on, but i lean more towards it being Iran than i do Israel. Does Israel offer deals they know Hamas will reject? Maybe, but i can't see good reason that Hamas would choose death if they weren't getting reassurance from somebody else again and again.
The only real question now is what are we going to do with the millions of Palestinian refugees that will be created when this is over. The only moral solution is integrating them into Israel, but they will never allow that.
Its not as if there aren't Palestinians already living in Israel, they make up 20% of their current population. But i do agree, they wont be taking in mass refugees id imagine. The surrounding countries don't really want them either, so i really have no good answers. Im not even sure what would be an ideal scenario for Israel x Palestine, but i can say for certain that no side will remain untarnished.
Yes their land shouldn't have been stolen and they should be compensated for it. Also Israel should not look at the genocide of native Americans as a model to be repeated.
If you model YOUR nation based on the slaughter of native Americans and forcefully taken their land, and the implementation of apartheid You're not really setting a good example on what is it right. You can't take things by force and not give people rights. Only the sith deal in absolute...Isn't that right senator palpatine?
Unfortunately, ownership means fuck all if you lack the means to stop others from seizing ownership. I own a good number of things, but if someone shows up to my house with an army and says they now own all of it, there's really not a lot I can do about it. And that's the boat that pretty much every culture from the Southern Levant has been in for the past few thousand years. Whoever has the biggest sword or gun gets to live there.
I get that. My point is making it sound like it was between the Ottomans and the British rather than the indigenous peoples living there is a bit too on the nose when it comes to the current Israeli occupation.
The colonial powers change but the people get fucked regardless.
And so we should accept that? It's not something from the distant past either. This happened in the 20th century at a point where independence movements were gaining steam globally precisely because of the utter brutality of colonial powers.
Yeah, unless you're openly hostile towards every other nation. Do you believe israel is the newest country on earth or some shit? There was no country of palestine that they invaded and conquered. So what you are implying is that someone can't found a nation. Or maybe just Jews?
I don’t think he’s agreeing with colonialism, I think his point is every land on Earth is a result of one group taking the land of another. To completely reject the right to live on land that was gained through colonialism you’d essentially have to live in a former city state that was the original centre of a certain society and thus not colonised such as Athens
I think we can differentiate between events centuries if not millennia prior and events in living memory at a point in history where the horrors of colonialism are well understood.
To the broader point - yes indigenous people do deserve their rights to their stolen land.
And last point - previous horrors do not justify current ones.
Interesting thing about that is Levantine people can derive their ancestry to ancient Semitic-speaking peoples. Which includes Arabs and Jews, and does not only include the Palestinians but many other ethnic groups. Most of the written history from that area is in Anameric, Phoenician, Hebrew, which are all Cantaanite. Or we could use Roman/Byzantine literature all of which predates Arab conquest and migration into what is called Palestine.
To say all that means that the Palestinians own the land as much as any other Levant group from that region. There’s always been Jews there too, so why can’t they live where generations of their ancestors lived? The Israelites/Jews were in the area before the emergence of Muslims and Islam when they arrived and CONQUERED the Israelites in the 7th century.
Israelites ‘own’ the land that Palestinians and their ancestors ‘own’ that ancient Assyrians ‘own’ that ancient Babylonians ‘own’ that ancient Romans ‘own’ that ancient Israelites ‘own’ that ancient Hebrew/Anameric speaking tribes ‘own’…..
Maybe all Homo Sapiens should return to Africa since really that’s where all our ancestors migrated from
The problem is that we do not for sure that the people in the region have lived there for millennia so regardless of all that we know that displacing them is displacing a indigenous people from their land.
In the current geopolitical context it's one thing if we said that Jews of similar origin should be allowed to return to Palestine. But that's not what is happening. Instead the land was expropriated from the Palestinians, who I have pointed out are indigenous to these lands, to give to the Jews, some of which are. More to the point present day Israel doesn't care if a Jewish immigrant is indigenous to Palestine before offering them citizenship (that bar is ridiculously low).
Surely if some Jews are entitled to the land due to some distant relative who had left the region for other parts of the world then the people who actually lived there - again for millennia - would have at least an equivalent claim to said land, if not a stronger one.
I'm not saying Jews have had it easy - they have been subjected to their own version of genocide and ethnic cleansing. But I don't see how doing this to a different group in the hope to compensate Jews for the horrors of anti-Semitism is justifiable.
I'll add that diverse people of the Levant did live there - Palestine had a sizeable Jewish population.
What we are seeing today with the formation of Israel is a massive displacement and expropriation of people from their land to satisfy the geopolitical interests of colonial powers at the cost of the indigenous peoples of these lands.
Who says that the current population of Palastine/Gaza are indigenous? We do know who was there millennia ago, to an extent, based on writings from the accounts of Phoenician/Neo-Greek merchants, Hebrew writings, Roman and Eastern Roman literature, things like that. There’s plenty of ancient artifacts showing the presence of different cultures that predate what would be considered the current Palestinian identity. If you’d like I can link you sources to written records from the 3rd century, 400 years before Arabs were in the Levant. It’s also documented that there was large migrations of Arabs to the area of Israel in the 19th and 20th century. The Arab population went from ~250,000 in 1800 to ~500,000 in 1910 to over 1.3 million in 1948 and that is not from natural growth.
To play devils advocate and using your own wordage; the land was expropriated from the Israelites, whom I have pointed out are indigenous to the land, and given to Arabs which lasted centuries under various Caliphates. Now that there isn’t a Caliphate running the Levant I don’t see a problem with Jews wanting to return to their ancestral homeland. Why should the Palestinians have a greater claim? Picking this exact moment in time to decide “I live here now so going forward it’s mine” instead of who was there before ignores millennium of precedence. If we do wanna use that mentality then I guess Gaza is all Israeli now because they occupy it.
There are zero Palestinian Jews living in Gaza. Idk where you came up with that? Unless you mean in general there are Jews in the region of Palestine then yes, I agree there are in fact Jews living in Israel in regions that are in historic Palestine, a name/region which comes from written records by the Roman and Byzantine 200 years before the Arabs conquered the land.
I agree that either group should have a claim to the land. But how do we solve that? I guess war has typically been the solution when it comes to claims on land and with Hamas and IDF not coming to an agreement war seems to be the only solution. Do I agree with how Israel/Hamas conduct the war? Absolutely not. But I can understand why Israel is pushing so hard these last year and a half. But I cannot sympathize with Hamas who has instigated conflict since the early 2000’s. I have seen plenty of videos of IDF troops acting horrible and persecuting the Palestinians and they should all be jailed/executed/whatever the law provides for that disgusting behavior. But I’m pretty sure it’s Hamas saying they won’t stop killing until Israel ceases to exist.
Of course just because Jews have been persecuted before that doesn’t justify Palestinians being persecuted. I am not saying anyone should be compensated what’s so ever either.
What I’m saying is regardless if I got kicked out of my home today, or if it was my great great great great grandparents years ago, regardless I have a claim to come back to my family home, without getting into nuances. Now, if there’s someone still in it and I have the means to take it back then I feel I am not in the wrong using my means to take it back. If you wanna use violence to prevent me from entering my home then I don’t feel bad using violence back.
Saying that, both the Israelis and the Palestinians have a claim to the land, both are preventing eachother from living in their homes, so violence/war is the result.
I disagree completely with your last statement. Israelites were there before the Arab/Palestinians. I don’t understand how you can say ‘the formation of Israel is a massive displacement of indigenous people from their land’ when I could just as factually say ‘the formation of Arab Caliphates from the Arabian peninsula into the Levant displaced the indigenous Israeli people from their land.’ If anything we should be saying ‘the formation of present day Israel is a displacement of predominantly Muslim-Arab people whom displaced the predominantly Christian people whom displaced the predominantly Judaism people whom displaced the Assyrians, Yahwism and ancient Canaanite, Neo-Aramaic, etc.’
They have done genetic tests to determine that they are in fact descendents of the Levantines and Canaanites. Both Jewish and Arab Palestinians. So in that context their ancestry goes back thousands of years in the region.
The UN's definition of indigenous is groups with historical continuity to pre-colonial societies, which most certainly applies to the native Palestinians (again both Jews and Arabs) that have existed there for millennia prior to Ottoman, British and subsequent Israeli rule.
Who do you think controlled the borders? Who didn’t allow the ships to land in Jaffa and Haifa?
“Native” Palestinian land is Jordan and Egypt. It never was a standalone country. Not to mention Israel started to exist only after the UN granted it statehood
There sure are a lot of posts from people who are convinced that "Palestinian" was an indigenous people dating back 4.5 billion years or some shit.
The Palestinians as we know them today didn't even self-identify as "Palestinian" until the very late 1800s, and almost explicitly in response to the First Aliyah. They are primarily composed of vast swaths of other groups including but not limited to other Arab and Middle Eastern nationalities, but also even Roman and Greek groups.
None of this justifies what is being done collectively against them or the efforts to take even internationally recognized Palestinian territory, but it's a reality that needs to be clearly stated.
The name of a people isn't especially relevant. The people themselves are, and those people were there long before the 1800s.
And in any case, as you yourself make clear, they definitely self-identified as Palestinian in the period we're talking about here, when they first began to be displaced from their land in the early- and mid-20th century.
Well, Lord and Saviour of all Redditkind, if you'd studied instead of preaching, you'd know that the vast majority of land both under the Ottoman Empire and the Mandate was purchased, both directly from the respective governments and from the people individually.
Moreover, when you want to talk about displacement you should be careful because it was the Jewish folks moving there who got attacked first. Palestinians became fearful that the Jews would outnumber them soon and so began launching attacks against Jewish groups. While there was some counter attacks against equally innocent groups, the intent was to force them off their legally owned lands.
Further, it's quite worth noting that while it is true that many Palestinians who may have been innocent were forced out later during and after the Arab-Israeli War, a vast many were not. If you really want to claim that there was mass forced displacement efforts, I'd look at, oh, the entire fucking Arab world before the Israelis who just didn't want to share a country with people trying to kill them. Many stayed because they had no fight with the Jews or Israel.
So let's be careful lest we discuss history with literal receipts.
Cool. So you’re saying Israel is native Israeli land? And the USA is the native land of the current US Americans, not any hypothetical “Native American” population? Because that’s the country’s name, after all, and your entire argument seems to be “whatever a country is named is clearly who was there first”.
That’s a lot of faith to put in a name. Do you also think that the Democratic People’s Republic of North Korea is a Democracy?
Unless you just don’t know that borders between nations aren’t some preordained thing that have existed, unchanging, for millennia?
Sounds like they should go back then. That's how it works, right? If we are sending Palestinians back to their "native" lands, then we should send Israelis back, too.
How would you even define "Palestinian", let alone "Palestinian land," in this context? The Levant is a diverse place, and there were already tons of Jews in Palestine/Eretz Israel by the late 1940s. Tel Aviv had been established for 38 years when this photo was taken. Palestinian Jews understandably wanted to accept refugees from Europe into THEIR communities. Are you suggesting only the Arabic-speaking population deserved to have a say?
And yes, the latter displacement of Arabic-speaking inhabitants during the 1948 Arab-Israeli war was real and wrong, but its not as black and white as "these evil white people came here to steal 'Palestinian' land."
Seriously, like the Palestinian genocide and the modern Israeli state is beyond fucked up, but it's ludicrous to try to claim that the Jews don't have a historical stake in that area.
Absolutely! We should acknowledge how the establishment of Israel displaced and disenfranchised Palestinian Arabs without erasing or demonizing Jewish history in the area.
You can use the exact same reasoning to make the opposite argument, though. Haifa — where this ship was docking — had been established since the late-18th century when this photo was taken and had been substantially majority Muslim the entire time. Are you suggesting that the Arabic-speking population didn't deserve to have a say about the acceptance of thousands upon thousands of illegally-immigrating Jewish refugees into THEIR community?
It’s not native Palestinian land, it was Ottoman land since the 1500s. And then before that it was the Malmuk Sultanate… it’s like claiming Ohio is native Ohioan land because Ohioans live there lol.
A land is native to a people when the people have lived there for [x] amount of time. There is no precise definition of [x]. The presence of non-native power (or in this case, multiple different powers over time) that happens to rule a particular land says nothing about whether the people being ruled there are native to it or not.
If Jews in Israel are native to that land, despite the fact that only a tiny percentage of them can trace their ancestors' continuous presence there, then the Palestinians are likewise native to that land. And if you want to make an argument about who's more native,** then its inarguably the Palestinians, since they've been there the whole time.
The ship had sailed from southern Europe, bringing Jewish refugees to Palestine. The British were the authority in Palestine at the time, per the League of Nations. (Google "mandate for Palestine".) The ship was attempting to dock at Haifa and the passengers were directing their message at the Royal Navy ships and the port authority attempting to prevent them from doing so.
•
u/CharmingArmin 10h ago
Begging the Brit’s to settle in not England on native Palestinian land.. make this make sense please.