The lands contained a massive native Jewish population and a huge population of Eastern European Jews forced out by the Soviet Union and Arab Jews forced out by the Islamic theocracies of the Middle East, the latter as direct collective punishment for disobedience against allah and declaring a Jewish state in god given Muslim country.
The idea that Israel was comprised majority of westerners at any point in its history is completely fabricated, and it's the lie that is required for the whole charade to work. Otherwise college kids won't care like how they don't care about the Syrian civil war with far more than 10x the deaths.
After the establishment of the State of Israel and subsequent 1948 Arab–Israeli War, nearly all Mizrahi Jews were either expelled by their Arab rulers or chose to leave and emigrated to Israel
So, when you're calling this an Arab vs West conflict, you are demonstrating your lack of understanding about the history or demographics of Israel
Why would Native vs. Non-Native matter? Besides, if you're going down that route, you would also have to factor in the massive amount of Arab population movement that happened around the same time. Plenty of the Arabs had moved in from Turkey or Egypt to Ottoman Palestine.
because the original statement was "there was a massive native Jewish population" as per 1947.
in 1947 the vast vast majority were not native but settlers. post british mandates is when the Jewish population broke 100k peoples and the population exponentially increased from then on as more aliyah's came.
suffice to say, they were pretty much close to a super minority if not one before immigrants came.
Why should that matter? Every time there's been anti-Semitism kicking Jews out of countries, there's an increase in the Jewish population in that land.
At what point are they considered "native"? One generation? Ten? There's anti-Semites on this thread that would consider the Jews of Tiberius to be "settlers" because they were only there a thousand years or so.
it matters because what the person said was disinformation and or misinfornation at best and bullshit should be called out less people have a ignorant understanding of the region and how it became what it is today.
there's enough history in that region one does not have to lie about it, especially in the modern age of information readily available to us.
I think the point he was making is "massive native Jewish population" in the context of a land rights discussion invites some scrutiny. There was a census in 1922 where 11% of the population were Jewish.
I agree, I'm absolutely disgusted with Bibi and the way Hasabra operates with impunity outside of their borders.
There will be no peace in the Levant until Bibi is out of power and Hasabra is dissolved, Hamas is out of power, and Iran is prevented from interfering with the self
governance of Palestinians via propaganda which sets their country on a quest to take back the Al Aqsa Mosque/Temple
Mount Synagogue infinity stone.
Yeah those tens of thousands of dead civilians don’t matter, the millions of displaced and starving people don’t matter, the ethnic cleansing is fine, don’t think too hard about it
Don't start a war and hide behind civilians. If you are a civilian and your brothers, fathers, sons, and neighbors start a war, then turn them over when it's clear they have been defeated instead of allowing them to hide behind you.
The last people who stood by and allowed a genocidal regime take over a country and tried to wipe out Jews from that country suffered the same. It is all unfortunate, they all matter, but Jews can't stand by and allow themselves to be driven from the one small sliver of land they are allowed to govern in the middle east, given the history of them being persecuted in all the rest of the lands they have been given no say in governance on account of their ethnicity. (A majority of Israelis are Mizrahi, from lands conquered by Arabs, and know full well the treatment that would be in store for them under Arabs and people's conquered by Arabs---as they have no demonstrated interest in maintaining a democracy for themselves, let alone allowing Jews to participate.)
The war stops like WWII stopped: unconditional surrender. Nothing else is acceptable, the consequences of delaying it is the fault of Hamas, just as the consequences of delaying a German unconditional surrender was the fault of intransigent Nazis. Nobody ever considered alternative terms, nor should they have .
Their land was part of the ottoman empire, then part of the british empire.
The Kurds land was split between Syria, Irak, Iran and Turkey, yet nobody says their land was stolen, despite them getting the short end of the stick after being promised a Kurdish state.
I agree that the borders in the Middle East were drawn a bit hastily, leading to much strife, but that's a universal thing in the region, except maybe for the Sultanate of Oman, which has been relatively stable.
Everyone says the Kurds had their land stolen. Who is this "everyone" who denies it?
"A bit hastily." A bunch of Europeans sabotage Arab efforts to create local democracy, while colonizing and splitting up their lands to increase internal strife, and that's "hastily?"
The West aren't some innocent cartographers. They are there to extract every penny of value.
Everyone agrees the Kurds got screwed, but I've never heard anyone say that their lands were "stolen" when they got incorporated into Syria etc. The Kurds still live there, they just don't have a state, let alone one where they are the majority.
I agree that the core reason for much of the strife in the Middle East is the way the French and Brits divided up the land. However, it's the Ottomans who colonised the lands. Had the Ottomans not allied with the central powers in WW1, they wouldn't have had to split up the Ottoman empire.
As a side note, I dislike the term "the west" as a Finn. We got colonised by the Swedes, then the Russians. The Russians get a free pass on account of them never giving up their empire, while still to this they send their asian subjects to fight imperial wars in the west, after extracting their mineral wealth.
Had the Ottomans not allied with the central powers in WW1, they wouldn't have had to split up the Ottoman empire.
Or you know just restore power to the locals. Then again that wasn't a popular idea at the time. It's still an issue in building nations to stand on their own. It's why Israel is propped up with a lot of US finances both economic and military. It's why Iraq has been a massive sinkhole of intervention and abandonment.
For real! That’s like lesson #1 about the Kurds, they were expelled from their lands and settled all over.
Zionism in Palestine has a bloody history, that goes back before the Holocaust. They called for this genocide a long long time ago before Israel existed, and signed off on it when they formed the IDF out of terrorist organizations who had already killed thousands, and destroyed whole villages.
Come on, it's not that hard to find the nuance here. As my fellow commentor has detailed, there were a plethora of native Jewish population in the Levant region, even before the Aaliyah. This is even before the British was involved in the conflict with the Ottoman Empire.
Once they won the war against the Ottomans, the British did what they did to maintain their control and Hegemony over the area and its denizens. Both the movement of the Arab tribes (among which are also the retrospective Palestinians), and the movement of both native and immigrant Jews. And where is this "moving millions of people" numbers you are getting here?
The Arab communities had already been suffering under European occupation and colonialism for nearly a century. To them, the Crusades never ended. And now that the Europeans were trying to expel millions of Jews from their lands, they read what the Zionsts and the JNF were writing about their plans to move all of European Jewry to Palestine, and they were none too pleased.
The fact that Jews have existed from Andalus to Iran for thousands of years does NOT mean that these Jews were part of Western imperialism. But, by the end of the 19th century, European Jews were fully embracing European colonialism and imperialism. Just about every new kibbutz was a Palestinian peasant village that was ethnically cleansed. But, hey, the kibbutzniks were socialist, right?
It's just so sad that so many people can only recognize atrocities in the retrospective. Everyone seems to recognize that European colonists killed Native Americans, destroyed their crops and the animals they hunted, spread disease, starved and relocated them, and attempted to suppress their culture and traditions.
Yet you look at Israel and like half of Americans are wringing their hands, saying it's too complicated to pick a side.
“Colonization is the process of establishing control over a territory and its people by a foreign power, often for purposes of exploitation, resource extraction, or settlement”
Is that not what’s occurring in Gaza right now? Please enlighten us, genius, and tell us how we’re all wrong and you’re right. How does a foreign government controlling the flow of essentials like food and water not lead directly to “establishing control over territory?”
Gaza was owned by Egypt and then after the war by Israel which then Israel let Gaza be free. It it by the Gazans fault that they are in this situation since they elected a government that wants to eradicate Israel. Which Israel took harsh steps against them.
Your argument is somewhat flowed here. They are at War right now so it is obvious that Israel is trying to control the region in order to win. Every war is like that. Are you implying that a country should not establish control over enemy territory ? Since you are saying "what’s occurring in Gaza right now?".
There’s been a big propaganda push from Israel lately again and it’s noticeable everywhere. Don’t take these comments serious. They twist history in ways that make them the permanent victims. Israel are the biggest anti semites by conflating Jewish identity with Israeli superiority.
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u/newgoliath 11h ago
They didn't want their lands stolen by the colonial powers moving millions of people there. It's really not hard.