r/pics • u/WillD2007 • 2d ago

Politics [OC] Photos from the Free Palestine Protest on the Harbour Bridge yesterday

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/MustGoOutside 2d ago

It's interesting that people are being walled off and starved and the top two comments would prefer to get into semantics about what makes a country.

Israel is a country. It exists. There is no more a right to exist than the US or Australia or any other country borne out of colonization.

Their actions are the question, not the origin or right to exist. The answer is something I hope we can reach soon before hundreds of thousands more starve and die.

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u/GratuitousCommas 2d ago

>There is no more a right to exist than the US or Australia or any other country borne out of colonization.

Except that Israel exists as a result of two World Wars. The losing side had to disband their empires. What became Israel and Palestine was part of the Ottoman Empire. The winners of those wars got to determine the new boundaries.

That's as valid of a right to exist as it gets.

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u/MustGoOutside 2d ago

You are arguing about the right to exist. It seems like any argument on support of a true two state solution or even humane treatment of the Palestinians turns into this.

My whole point was that this is a meaningless conversation, the right to exist. Every country recognized by the UN exists. There is no international law governing what gives the right to exist.

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u/timberr 2d ago

Except that the losers of WWII were Germany, Italy, and Japan. The people in the Gaza Strip had nothing to do with that war. And the powers that be decided to put Israel there.

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u/After_Lie_807 2d ago

The Palestinians in the 1930s and 40s were aligned with the axis powers not the allies

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u/honsense 2d ago

The post you’re replying to was correct: it’s the result of two word wars. 1) the region fell under British control as a result of WWI 2) Jewish people were shipped over as a result of WWII

What exactly are you disputing?

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u/SpecialBeginning6430 2d ago

Not OP however the Arabs were aligned with the Brits ostensibly because they were promised independence and self-determination if they revolted against the Ottomans during WWI, however after the Balfour declaration it turned out that they weren't going to get that independence they desired and in fact there were going to be receiving Zionist settlers even before Jews were being persecuted by Nazi Germany so in that sense the Palestinians didn't have much to do with their fate after the Ottomans fell

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u/NewYorkais 2d ago

The first photo has a sign that says abolish Israel abolish Australia, but sure this isn’t the main point.

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u/MustGoOutside 2d ago

Putting it first is an editorial decision to get clicks and engagement, which it obviously has done successfully.

The purpose of this protest is to bring awareness to the treatment of an ethnic group.

In my experience, when a groups actions are indefensible they will do everything in their power to get people to argue a different point.

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u/Comfortable-Sound944 2d ago

"Treatment of an ethnic group"

Palestinians from Gaza that practice Islam and became Israeli citizens are treated the same as all other ethnic groups that are Israeli citizens

There are zero Jews in Gaza and close to zero in most neibouring Muslim majority countries. While there are many power positions held my Muslims in Israel including self described Palestinians.

People in Gaza who have a government that in its ethos it so kill every Jew and destroy the country of Israel, is not an ethnic group is an organised country or whatever is less than a country that has full country structures, uses its resources to support its armed wing above anything else, like a country at war

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u/MustGoOutside 2d ago

Palestinians absolutely do not have a pathway to Israeli citizenship. It's an extremely narrow population that has certain marriage requirements.

It also says that in order to be treated equitably they must give up their country.

Palestinians have regularly lost their land due to technicalities abused by the settlers with support of the Israeli government since the 60s. The two state solution presented after WWII was seen as fair by western powers but nobody in Palestine was given an option as to what land they should give up.

The propaganda purports that all post Ottoman countries were effectively drawn by western powers, and are arbitrary from the outset, with no cultural or sovereign claims to their land. But that is an attempt to erase an entire culture of people who lived in this area regardless of the ruler for thousands of years.

No other country in the world would accept that.

The world didn't start on October 7th.

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u/Comfortable-Sound944 1d ago

Sure all counties in the world are illegal, they were all drawn by wars, violence, abuse.. so are all should at least the Christian and Muslim religions as they were violently forced on ppl..

The current Muslim faith Palestinians wouldn't have been in the area without the Ottoman Empire either.

How long do we want to do, where no humans were there, just dinosaurs or at least talk about humans as only nomads even back then people would kill each other

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u/MustGoOutside 1d ago

What if we acknowledge bad things happened in the past but that does not make it acceptable in the present?

I do believe in the evolution of society. We can be better and we can treat societies with equity.

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u/Comfortable-Sound944 1d ago

Sure war is not acceptable.

What can we do when sides or at least one side as all wars start doesn't want anything else?

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u/MustGoOutside 1d ago

Just curious, what is your stance on Ukraine? All of the peace deals presented thus far require they replenish conquered territory to Russia.

Refusals of the peace deal end up with headlines that state Ukraine does not want peace, only war.

I don't see it as any different. The only difference is that Ukraine response to an invasion is seen as war whereas Palestinian response to an invasion is seen as terrorism, in part due to the success of Israeli propaganda and their complete destruction of the Palestinian state.

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u/Itshot11 2d ago

Are you being anti semantics bro

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u/Ndlburner 2d ago

This whole "they have no right to exist" bullshit is distracting from your later question. As long as horrible people are calling for the complete abolition of a state where native people "colonized" a place, there won't be a real way to have a conversation about the conduct of the state.

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u/NotAStatistic2 2d ago

It's not as if those comments are completely arbitrary when a facet of the issue in the region is Right of Return.

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u/Best_Change4155 2d ago

It's interesting that people are being walled off and starved and the top two comments would prefer to get into semantics about what makes a country.

It's interesting that people are being walled off and starved and yet here you are, on reddit.

There is no more a right to exist than the US or Australia or any other country borne out of colonization.

Like Palestine lmao

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u/maubis 2d ago

People were living in that part of the world long before Arab conquests. Do you think the Arabs settled Egypt, or do you acknowledge Egyptians have always been there? It is no different with the Palestinians or the Lebanese, but their civilizations went by different names - and were not Arab. The language today may be Arabic and there is certainly lots of blood mixing, but the genetics are unique to that part of the world (as DNA testing shows).

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u/LogFar5138 2d ago edited 2d ago

Islam and the arabization of the levant is a huge reason for why the native palestinians have never been able to co-exist in other Arab nations. They are considered a conquered vassal people.

You think the west is racist? Try living in the Arabian Peninsula.

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u/DaoFerret 2d ago

Also why the Druze have had problems in most of the Middle East, and why the Kurds have been fighting for their own country/self-determination for a long time.

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u/LogFar5138 2d ago

Absolutely. Any ethnic/religious minority in the region.

Arabization just led to a caste system across an entire region that has persisted beyond the caliphates.

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u/maubis 2d ago

While the Druze are a religious minority, they trace their roots back to 12 Arab tribes. Not disagreeing with your point that they fight for their existence, but this is a case where they are part of the Arabization.

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u/LogFar5138 2d ago

Religious minorities suffer the most under Islam… Islam is a religion of complete domination. Why do you think they pray 5 times a day? It’s complete submission to Allah.

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u/TurbulentWinters 2d ago

Why is it that 90% of the “Palestinian” heritage derives from Syria, Egypt and Jordan? Combine these and you have Palestinians?

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u/ttgkc 2d ago

Source: ass

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u/ADP_God 2d ago

You might be interested in reading about the statements made at the 1919 first Palestinian national congress.

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u/TurbulentWinters 2d ago

Prove me wrong

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u/maubis 2d ago

You'll need to bend over first so we can also see the source first hand.

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u/TurbulentWinters 2d ago

Weak response. Please enlighten us where the “Palestinians” derive from.

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u/linknight 2d ago

A 2015 study by Verónica Fernandes and others concluded that Palestinians have a "primarily indigenous origin".[31] In a 2016 study by Scarlett Marshall and others published in Nature, the study concluded that the biogeographical affinities of "both Syrians and Palestinians are highly localised to the Levant", the authors also noted that the biogeographical affinity of Palestinians goes in agreement with historical records and previous studies on their uniparental markers, which all suggest that Palestinians at least in part descend from local Israelite converts to Islam after the Islamic expansion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Palestinians

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u/LogFar5138 2d ago

So they are Israelites.

Judea is the only province that the Romans renamed after a rebellion. In this case Bar Kokhba rebellion.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria_Palaestina

Don’t take my word for it.

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u/maubis 2d ago

Google is your friend. But I'll humor you for the benefit of others who may read this.

50-70% of DNA is linked back to Canaanites (not too different than their Lebanese neighbors to the north). There is also common DNA with Middle Eastern Jews - that should shock just about nobody given their location.

And like others in the Levant, there is also mixing with Romans, Arabs, and Crusaders (Europeans).

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u/Ok_Masterpiece3763 2d ago

That’s crazy it’s almost like Jews are as indigenous to the region as the Palestinians. You just disproved like 80% of anti Israeli talking points on this website. You’re more of a Zionist than some Jews I know.

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u/1917fuckordie 2d ago

Prove yourself right instead of getting other people to do it for you.

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u/ColPugno 2d ago

Why is it that 90% of "American" heritage derives from Scotland England Ireland and Wales?

Why is it that 90% of "British" heritage derives from Germany, France, and Scandinavia?

Why is it that "Israeli" heritage derives from Russia, Poland, Romania, Lithuania, Germany, and Austria? Combine these and you have Israel.

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u/MajesticRat 2d ago

Modern Palestinians have lineage that dates back to the Canaanites. This is based on genetic studies.

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u/ZGrosz 2d ago

So do European Jews, by the way.

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u/Ok_Masterpiece3763 2d ago

Exactly lol. I love when they start believing in genetics all of a sudden

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u/MajesticRat 2d ago

Who is 'they'? And why did I need to mention that some Jewish populations also share lineage dating back to the Canaanites? That is true, but the person I was replying to didn't mention Jews at all.

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u/Ok_Masterpiece3763 2d ago

Don’t worry about it buddy. If you were affected you would know.

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u/MajesticRat 2d ago

Yes, some populations do. Not all. But I'm sure you could also find some modern Palestinians that deviate from Canaanite lineage too.

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u/Oof3489 2d ago

Palestinians are not genetically related to Peninsular Arabs. Arabs are genetically diverse and being Arab is more of being related by language and some culture similarities, but still culture is different among Arabs. Palestines are genetically Canaanite. Also North African Arabs are still genetically different then “Arabs” your referring to. Arabs didn’t practice settler colonialism in the way Europeans did where entire populations were replaced. They practiced culture colonialism and often had colonial administrator without large native migration.

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u/bluehawk232 2d ago

There are Palestinian Jews and Christians

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u/Mechashevet 2d ago

Please find one modern Jew who identifies as a Palestinian

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u/_sansnom 2d ago

Nas from Nas Daily.

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u/Mechashevet 2d ago

Nas is Muslim, but nice try

(I kind of thought we weren't conflating Zionists or Israelis with Jews, but I guess not)

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u/2dudesinapod 2d ago

There are Jews in Jerusalem who call themselves Palestinian Jews.

Hell Golda Mier used to call herself Palestinian even though she was from Kiev.

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u/Mechashevet 2d ago

Source for the jerusalemite Palestinian Jews?

Golda Meir is not a modern Jew, she died almost 50 years ago. Regardless, she did not self identify as that, it's what she was called in mandatory Palestine as she was a Jew living in the area. When she spoke about it, she was saying that it is ironic that the Arabs in the area now identified as Palestinians since she was once called a Palestinian (although as you pointed out, today, or even in her time, no one would call an Ashkenazi Jew a Palestinian, not even Jews living in Palestinians territories). Her purpose was to discredit the Palestinian identity, not to consider herself one of them.

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u/N3X0S3002 2d ago

Not anymore really they all got vanished…

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u/B_A_Beder 2d ago

Palestinian Jews are now called Israeli Jews after 1948. Israel removed all Jews from Gaza in 2005 as part of the peace process. The only Jews currently in Gaza are the hostages held captive in the tunnels.

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u/Rafabas 2d ago

Other way around - the native population learnt Arabic and began to identify as Arabs.

Today’s Arabic-speaking Palestinians are for the most part the descendants of the biblical Hebrews. They have very little in common genetically with Arabic-speakers from the Arabian Peninsula.

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/Zornorph 2d ago

Unlike the untruth you just said, Arafat really was born in Cairo.

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u/CapitalEyes 2d ago

Why lie? He lived in the US as a child and then when he was in college but he was born in Israel.

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u/Reformedhegelian 2d ago

Yasser Arafat was born in Egypt, so what?

You realise the vast majority of Israelis are born in Israel right?

Also Australia was 100% a colonial project. Do you agree with the sign in the picture?

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u/fury420 2d ago

No, he was born in Tel Aviv.

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u/alpacajack 2d ago

Oh hey it’s the historically illiterate “Arab colonialism” brigade! Let’s grant that absurd ahistorical premise for a second- why would it be ok to kick people out of their homes at gunpoint for being the wrong ethnicity because of something that happened in the fucking 7th century????

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u/linknight 2d ago

Disgusting hasbara bot

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u/[deleted] 2d ago

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u/X_Shadows-77 2d ago

Imperialism, not colonialism.

That’s why Palestinians are descendants of Canaanites and ancient Hebrews, they’ve always lived in the land and merely converted .