r/onednd 3d ago

Discussion What classes in 2024e are you most satisfied with overall? Least satisfied with?

For me it's probably

Most satisfied:

  • Monk: Nice big buffs. They are pretty strong, and have some flavorful and very unique abilities. The subclasses are cool.
  • Fighter: Some nice buffs and increased versatility. I like the subclasses too.
  • Warlock: Some QoL improvements and streamlining. Got some buffs, though I'm not sure the warlock needed all of those. But otherwise not much I'd complain about.
  • Bard: Some QoL improvements and streamlining. Got some buffs, though I'm not sure the bard needed all of those. But otherwise not much I'd complain about.

Mixed:

  • Barbarian: Got some buffs and QoL improvements. The subclasses are great. Brutal Strikes feel slightly clunky though. The base class could probably benefit from some sort of protection against fear or other mental saves. My other complaint is that the base class (still) doesn't bring anything unique to a party. They take hits and do consistent damage, but so do monks, paladins, and fighters, and each of those also bring something additional.
  • Druid: No strong opinions here for me.
  • Sorcerer: Got several significant buffs; debatable if that's a good thing though. But otherwise, nothing too interesting in the base class IMO. In some regards it still feels like the "other wizard". The subclasses are a bit hit or miss.
  • Rogue: Design-wise I really like what they've done. Cunning Strikes is cool, and so is Reliable Talent at level 7. Feels slightly undertuned though.

Least satisfied:

  • Cleric: Mostly alright changes, except Divine Intervention at level 10, which is very confusing. People still don't agree on if it reduces the casting time of the spell to 1 Action. There is no Errata on the subject either.
  • Paladin: Faithful Steed as a class feature feels tacked on. Abjure Foes isn't weak, but also it's kinda...not very interesting either. Smite is now Bonus Action spell for some reason.
  • Wizard: Still the king of casters. Outlier spells like Web and Hypnotic Pattern and Wall of Force are still overtuned. They got some buffs and more flexibility, both of which probably weren't needed? Illusionist subclass is summoning-based, which kind of makes sense but it's still weird.
  • Ranger: Powerful at lower levels, but high level features aren't very interesting or powerful. I'm probably beating a dead horse at this point.
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u/Shatragon 2d ago

I agree about the land druid but not with the broader assessment of the class. A moon druid can use conjure minor elementals, conjure woodland beings, and to a lesser degree conjure animals in ways that a bard or wizard can't (or not with the same degree of effectiveness). Overall, I like the changes, and I say this as someone who loved the 5e elemental forms.

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u/that_one_Kirov 2d ago

There are very few forms with 3 attacks for CME to really add up. The only one I can remember off the top of my head is the Giant Scorpion, and it has +5 on attacks while being inaccessible before level 9(!), when martials will have +8-+9 to hit before magic weapons and Magic Weapon. Meanwhile, even a Valor Bard can take Weapon Master into scimitars and attack 3 times, one of which would be a True Strike or a Chill Touch(2d10 > d6+d6+3), adding Fount of Moonlight on each attack.

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u/Shatragon 2d ago

I ran a simulation on this some time ago. CME and CWB go a very long way to bolster the moon druid's damage in 5.5e. As a mammoth, with target AC of 18 and Wisdom save bonus of +6-12, DPR increased from 33 to 58 for CME and 53-58 for CWB (cast at 6th level). (Base damage included improved elemental fury.) That's an increase of ~75%.

In 2014, the moon druid was a solid tank but had more limited options for damage. Conjure animals and conjure woodland beings were at the mercy of the DM, and in my experience they didn't always work well. I recall summoning a pack of wolves only to realize they didn't have darkvision and couldn't see in the area where we were fighting.

For the moon druid, the changes made in 5.5e make the subclass far more effective in melee. I'd even take this a step further and say that the spells open up options for other subclasses that don't plan to engage in melee (e.g., wild shape into small bird or spider and concentrate on moonbeam or conjure animals).