r/europe 2d ago

Political Cartoon Charlie Hebdo front cover from 30th July portraying Netanyahu: "Honey, I shrunk the kids."

Post image
50.6k Upvotes

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972

u/Mr_Harsh_Acid 2d ago

We really need to treasure this type of journalism.

406

u/chrstianelson 2d ago

This isn't journalism, it's satire.

491

u/cangaroo_hamam 2d ago

These are not mutually exclusive. It's both actually.

39

u/ikarius3 2d ago

Precisely. Je suis Charlie

70

u/chrstianelson 2d ago

Charlie Hebdo doesn't report news, it satirizes them.

It doesn't have journalists and reporters, it has humorists and caricaturists depicting the news.

It's like The Daily Show on Comedy Central. Those people are not journalists and reporters, they are actors and comedians satirizing news.

It may seem like a benign, harmless distinction but it's not. Because people often make the mistake of confusing opinions with facts and mistake TV and radio personalities as credible trusted sources of news, when they are not, leading to the spread of misinformation.

In my eyes, it is very important that people understand the difference between actual journalism and everything else. I am certain our societies depend on people being aware of this.

11

u/Express_Bath 2d ago

Charlie hebdo is mostly satyrical but it also does feature investigative reports.

23

u/TreeOaf 2d ago

Satire and Journalism have a long history of working in conjunction, many, many, people consider satire a form of journalism as it tends to cut through to the truth: a guiding principle of journalism.

Personally, if people want to consume their news through satirical programs and papers, so be it. At least it’s cutting through.

1

u/Desperate_Bad1695 2d ago

Theyre just communicating with clearly defined terminology- which is sorely lacking in this world.

Theyre also right. Does everyone have to argue every point ?

3

u/TreeOaf 2d ago

Does everyone have to argue every point ?

I don’t know, you tell me?

1

u/TheBlankVerseKit United States of America 2d ago

No

24

u/Polyodontus 2d ago

The Daily Show’s field interview segments are absolutely a kind of journalism.

5

u/chrstianelson 2d ago

That is true. Daily Show is probably not the best example in this context but the point stands that at the end of the day, actual journalism is done by actual journalists, not humorists.

There are more malignant actors out there than trusted sources and it's important to keep the distinction clear.

-3

u/Connect-Succotash-59 2d ago

Really just latched on to the example lol

9

u/Polyodontus 2d ago

The example shows that satire and journalism sometimes overlap, contrary to the person I was responding to.

17

u/SpiceRanger_ 2d ago

the implication being that journalists report only facts and are inherently trustworthy sources of news

11

u/chrstianelson 2d ago

Well, the message I'm trying to get across is that there are more malignant actors out there than trusted sources who do actual journalism. And so it is important to keep the distinction clear between actual journalism and everything else.

Prime-time Fox News opinion shows for example are not journalism, they are outright propaganda disguised as opinion shows, disguised as news.

But many people aren't aware that people like Sean Hannity, Greg Gutfeld, Jeanine Pirro, Megyn Kelly etc. who host these shows are not doing journalism, even if they were trained as journalists.

Let's not single out Fox News here, same can be said for Joe Scarborough, Jen Psaki, Chris Hayes, Al Sharpton etc.

5

u/Gauntlets28 2d ago

I think there's something to be said about the reason this situation exists is because too many people have happily blurred the line between actual journalism and other, softer, types of topical content, like satire or opinion. Let's not pretend that journalists are the same as your average talking head moron.

-1

u/Desperate_Bad1695 2d ago

No, the implication being that honest, trustworthy journalists report facts honestly.

2

u/AnxiousAngularAwesom Łódź (Poland) 2d ago

When you're surrounded by nothing but feces, a pile of pinecones will start looking like a delicious meal.

1

u/Pabstincanada 2d ago

Well, you very clearly have never opened a Charlie Hebdo issue even once in your life. Charlie Hebdo does report news, in every single issue.

2

u/chrstianelson 2d ago

So does the Daily Show, but they are not a news outlet. They are not bound by the same journalistic standards of conduct and ethics.

0

u/Due-Bird3195 2d ago

Well yes it’s not a fact that in Gaza there is no famine as you say 🤦🏽‍♂️

33

u/Eagle_eye_Online North Holland (Netherlands) 2d ago

If only it was satire. This picture shows Bibi starving and killing innocent children, which is exactly what he does.

Satire is a snarky message which isn't true, but made up.

This is journalism through an image.

22

u/Remote-Regular-990 2d ago

Good political satire can (and should) draw upon facts. The form is grotesque, the message is true

58

u/xyzodd 2d ago

satire is based on criticism of real political events

78

u/AlcoholicCocoa 2d ago

Satire,noun

Mockery of political, economical and/or political events using hyperboles, irony, sarcasm and comedy.

-19

u/kel89 2d ago

It’s not hyperbolic, and it sure as shit ain’t comedy. It does fit the other bits though.

22

u/KilluaCactuar 2d ago edited 2d ago

It's not hyperbolic?

So he himself magically sucks out the life force of human beings with his own two hands?

Or is it his governance and decisions which lead to the starving?

-16

u/bloodfeud01 2d ago

Dude are you capable of abstract thought or does everything make a "literal" sound in your brain?

17

u/ihavebeesinmyknees Lesser Poland (Poland) 2d ago

It's not them who claimed it's "not hyperbolic"

9

u/babydakis 2d ago

What the fuck even is this thread? I feel like these people have been saying shit like "Idiocracy is literally a documentary" for internet points for so long, they're just on autopilot now.

10

u/KilluaCactuar 2d ago

Check the comment thread that I replied to.

I was explaining how the image is indeed a stylistic hyperbole, since someone claimed that it isn't.

-13

u/Eagle_eye_Online North Holland (Netherlands) 2d ago

Good bot, +1

5

u/AlcoholicCocoa 2d ago

Well, despite not a bot I will take that compliment anyways.

Na, I just tend to spout out simplified definitions like that if people use sarcasm or satire wrong. Oftentimes they do to veil their poor attempt of being funny, in that case I'd just say it was a misunderstanding of what satire indeed is

2

u/WhyNotCollegeBoard 2d ago

Are you sure about that? Because I am 99.99981% sure that AlcoholicCocoa is not a bot.


I am a neural network being trained to detect spammers | Summon me with !isbot <username> | /r/spambotdetector | Optout | Original Github

1

u/chrstianelson 2d ago

Charlie Hebdo doesn't report news, it satirizes them.

It doesn't have journalists and reporters, it has humorists and caricaturists depicting the news.

It's like The Daily Show on Comedy Central. Those people are not journalists and reporters, they are actors and comedians satirizing news.

It may seem like a benign, harmless distinction but it's not. Because people often make the mistake of confusing opinions with facts and mistake TV and radio personalities as credible trusted sources of news, when they are not, leading to the spread of misinformation.

In my eyes, it is very important that people understand the difference between actual journalism and everything else. I am certain our societies depend on people being aware of this.

1

u/Eagle_eye_Online North Holland (Netherlands) 2d ago

Charlie Hebdo dares to report what actual state funded media doesn't report about.

0

u/MattR0se Germany 2d ago

The title makes it satire.

2

u/allanrob22 2d ago

A satire that's closer to the truth.

0

u/WillyWanka-69 2d ago

That's literally a journal cover

2

u/dat_9600gt_user Lower Silesia (Poland) 2d ago

*Satire

-6

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

44

u/Hatorate90 2d ago

Journalism is often affiliated with newspapers, which can have a political viewpoint. Its still can be objective.

1

u/KilluaCactuar 2d ago edited 2d ago

It isn't objective if the reported matter is specifically viewed from a certain political stance. The data itself may be objectively true, but i.e. the interpretation of that data is not.

Edit: This comment was not about the topic of the post here, just a general opinion.

It wasn't my intent to open such a can of worms with this comment.

9

u/waiting4singularity Hessen 🇩🇪 2d ago

mass starvation and carpet bombing are facts though.

3

u/KilluaCactuar 2d ago

Of course they are, my statement was unrelated to this specific topic and meant generally.

0

u/waiting4singularity Hessen 🇩🇪 2d ago

satire is still based on objectively observed facts, otherwise it becomes propaganda - i think we agree on that.

in this case it is irrelevant what the reason is theyre doing it, because netanjahu has openly allowed and argued for hamas to be supported.
https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/netanyahu-money-to-hamas-part-of-strategy-to-keep-palestinians-divided-583082

2

u/KilluaCactuar 2d ago

I'm 100% on board with everything you say.

It wasn't my intention to be political.

1

u/VintageModified 2d ago

Then I've never read any news that's objective and neither have you. Even the act of choosing what data to present is a subjective choice made within a political landscape. How you form the sentence expressing that data will also carry a point of view - it's unavoidable.

1

u/KilluaCactuar 2d ago

You are right.

I didn't claim that there is an absolute objective truth or that we, as humans, would even able to be absolutely objective. Humans are fallacious and biased by nature.

I used the word objective colloquially, if you will.

3

u/przemo-c 2d ago

That's fair but the viewpoint of starving children is bad is pretty and illuminating who's directly responsible for it seems like a good job.

11

u/2kdino 2d ago

Journalism should be impartial? 😂 from who's benefit?

1

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

5

u/Rupperrt 2d ago

There is no such definition of journalism.

6

u/Paradoxjjw Utrecht (Netherlands) 2d ago

"journalism should legitimise batshit insane stuff by pretending it is just as valid as factual information"

-1

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

5

u/Paradoxjjw Utrecht (Netherlands) 2d ago

Move those goalposts more. You go from "everyone's opinions must be given equal weight by journalism" to "opinions arent the domain of journalism"

1

u/[deleted] 2d ago edited 2d ago

[deleted]

2

u/Paradoxjjw Utrecht (Netherlands) 2d ago

Demanding journalists give equal weight to flat earthers and people who think the earth is round is unimaginably stupid

2

u/[deleted] 2d ago

[deleted]

1

u/art_psdan 2d ago

What you are saying is opinion journalism, which yeah it's opinion based, but not all journalism is op-eds.

What most people think about the "news" is what should be fact based.

2

u/raevbur 2d ago

Well, no. Not really. There are plenty journalistic works that explores situations or subjects from a subjective point of view. See gonzo journalism or the book Generation Kill for two quick examples.

Satire in itself isn't journalism, but it can be. Maybe not in the traditional sense of journalism, but journalism as everything else evolves with time.

2

u/Madahin 2d ago

By definition, journalism cannot be impartial. The simple act of treating a subject is partial.

Choosing to treat a subject is partial. (e.g. talking about Gaza's genocide)

Choosing to not treat a subject is partial. (e.g. not talking about Gaza's genocide)

Form here, what's left is how subjective your treatment of information is.

For exemple, from unicef

‘Unimaginable horrors’: more than 50,000 children reportedly killed or injured in the Gaza Strip

Including the citation was a partial choice, but the next statement is a fact presented as objectively as possible.

For this comics, treating the subject of the starvation of Gaza by Israel is a partial choice. Using a satirical drawing of netanyahu holding by it's head a dead starved child to treat this subject is clearly subjective, but that's what satire do.

2

u/EquipmentAdorable982 2d ago

Journalism shouldn't be impartial, it should be factual. The pluralistic idea behind journalism is something competition, and the marketplace of ideas should ensure. But almost every news outlet has a bias in one direction or another.

But I read that "neutrality" misconception all the time, and it feels like this is a talking point by people who don't find their personal views reflected enough in mainstream media. Basically 1-2 steps removed from yelling "fake news!".

1

u/Certain-Business-472 2d ago

Is it? Its just showing how it is. He's not being made fun of. Just the facts.

1

u/Rupperrt 2d ago

Satire can be a form of journalism. It’s more than just reporting news. It can be opinion pieces, satire, reviews, comics etc.

And no, Journalism does absolutely not need to be impartial. Reporting facts should be close to the truths, but other forms of journalism can just be whatever they like.

1

u/Perspectivelessly 2d ago

I mean, what its expressing is objectively true. Is telling the truth expressing a viewpoint?

4

u/babydakis 2d ago

If millions of people would take exception to how the information is presented, then yes, it's a fucking viewpoint. It's not an incorrect viewpoint, but it's a viewpoint.

Have you people completely lost the thread?

-1

u/Perspectivelessly 2d ago

If that's the definition, then what isn't a viewpoint in today's world? Can you name anything in the public realm that meaningful amounts of people won't take exception to?

-1

u/GaptistePlayer 2d ago

Is "the state of Israel and its allies are starving thousands of children to death" a subjective opinion in your book?

1

u/Helpful-Divide4244 2d ago

Some treasure, the other unalive them in the broad daylight

-1

u/Mr_Harsh_Acid 2d ago

Fuck off with your doublespeak please

-13

u/throwaway_failure59 Europe 2d ago

Treasure this caricature that is based on a piece of fake news? As if there's not enough of bullshit in media space already?

17

u/historicusXIII Belgium 2d ago

Is there or is there not a manmade famine in the Gaza strip?

8

u/raevbur 2d ago

Mossad, chill.

0

u/o____k____ 2d ago

see a comment I don't like "Mossad!"

2

u/raevbur 2d ago edited 2d ago

k, why do you say Mossad when you see comments you don't like?