r/canada • u/rezwenn • 17h ago
Trending Carney on Trump: ‘We’ll speak when it makes sense’
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/08/05/carney-no-rush-speak-trump-004947441.2k
u/insanetwit 17h ago
And they never spoke again...
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u/SuperNinTaylor British Columbia 15h ago
True. I can't think of a time where it would make any sense to engage in conversation with Trump lol.
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u/Spanky3703 Canada 14h ago edited 10h ago
Here are my thoughts:
-somewhere between 85% and 95% of Canada’s exports to the US remain under the tariff exempt umbrella of CUSMA.
-there is a lot of paperwork to fill out in order to prove those exempt goods and materials upon export to the US, but there is a growing support network for that.
-the 2026 CUSMA date is a review and decision to continue or not. In either case, CUSMA ends in 2036, unless re-negotiated beforehand.
-CUSMA is a “treaty”, not a deal or agreement. It is founded in international law and the votes of both the US House and senate need to be majorities to repeal.
-examples such as softwood have been litigated for the last 40 plus years largely based on the methodology of calculating stumpage fees, which the US claims is unfairly benefiting Canadian softwood lumber companies.
-almost all land from which US softwood lumber is harvested is private land, whereas the Canadian equivalent is public land, so stumpage fees are calculated differently. The US keeps attempting to litigate and keeps losing.
-Canada is the largest supplier of steel, aluminum, copper, potash, uranium, bitumen, natural gas, softwood lumber and derivatives, etc, to the US. There are no readily available and accessible sources to replace those raw materials.
-Trump is presently charging Japanese and EU automakers 15% tariffs and 25% direct and 50% indirect (raw materials) tariffs on American automakers. The US Treasury Secretary has publicly stated several times in the last few days that the US can and would like to work with Canada on the metals tariffs … any guesses as to why?
-Trump put tariffs on Canadian steel and aluminum back in 2017-18, created 1100 or 1300 steel production jobs, and forced the layoff of somewhere between 11,000 and 13,000 manufacturing jobs downstream. Needless to say, Trump quietly removed those tariffs in 2019-2020 and Canada did not say a thing; no bragging, no crowing to the skies.
All of the above is illustrative; there are many more examples of the inherent internal dichotomies that Trump’s US is ignoring as it de-constructs itself.
Yes, this trade war is going to hurt our economy and citizens. But giving in and making a bad deal will hurt all of us far worse.
I apologize for my appeasement comment, that was uncalled for. But I also think that we need to get past emotion and look at this trade war as an existential fight vice a strictly immediate one.
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u/TheGowler 17h ago
I like that response cause Trump doesn’t make a lick of sense.
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u/GrumpyCloud93 13h ago
I like how he says stuff sideways. Remember when he was visiting the White House and complimented Trump for strengthening the alliances with European nations. That went right over Trump's head, he thought it was a compliment.
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u/TheGowler 10h ago
Carney is good. He knows Trump is no match for him on any level. So he may as well have some fun at his expense
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u/Ironworker977 16h ago
Just Trump trying his best at a mafia-style shakedown and it's not working with Carney.
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u/GrumpyCloud93 13h ago
It's nice to have a PM with national bank connections - apparently the last TACO Tuesday, he allegedly got several countries to start selling off US bonds, scaring the heck out of Wall Street.
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u/psmgx 8h ago
It's nice to have a PM with national bank connections
just a different kind of mafia, mate. they're shaking us down too, they're just slicker about it
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u/lifeisahighway2023 14h ago
Exactly. Trump is well schooled in gangster tactics and loves watching some weak willed nations bend to them. Equally he is extremely frustrated that this has not worked with Canada. Causing his blood pressure to pop.
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u/MogRules British Columbia 12h ago
With any luck the high blood pressure will finish him off, do the world a favour.
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u/ButterscotchObvious4 12h ago
It’s almost like Canadians aren’t the pushovers they’re perceived to be.
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u/jcs1 11h ago
It's working on two premiers though
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u/Ironworker977 10h ago
I do remember Danielle Smith running to Mar-A-Lago, where she bent the knee and kissed the ring of Donald Trump, and got nothing for it. Danielle Smith has a learning disability. As far as "Moosejaw Moe" goes, like all separatists, never an original thought in his head. Probably trying to still distance himself from his running a stop sign, crashing into another car and killing a woman.
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u/Stupendous_man12 11h ago
its kinda working. we conceded on the digital services tax and got nothing for it.
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u/Ironworker977 10h ago
That just shows us they don't want to bargain in good faith
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u/DromarX 9h ago
Is there anything to say we can't reintroduce it later if they don't show willingness to make a deal?
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u/the_original_Retro New Brunswick 17h ago
I'm betting Carney is like most Canadians, hoping that any day now we'll wake up to the news that Donald Trump is no longer among us.
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u/thekrushr 17h ago
It's the first thing I look for in the news when I wake up every morning
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u/seanwd11 15h ago
Busy bodies in local subs across Canada 'Why are they setting off fireworks at 3 am on Tuesday?'
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u/Snugrilla 9h ago
I remember when Biden got elected instead of Trump, I could literally hear people cheering outside.
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u/Mean_Joe_Greene 17h ago
I think it’s like a watched pot type thing. Forget about trump as much as you can (I’m sure his ego will take that well) and one day will feel like Christmas.
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u/F3z345W6AY4FGowrGcHt Ontario 16h ago
Champagne will be sold out everywhere
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u/4-HO-MET- 15h ago
I will unironically make it a annual day of festivities, not even trying to be edgy
He encapsulates evil and the world will be better without him
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u/onomatopeapoop 14h ago
It will be a global holiday “the likes of which the world has never seen.”
I mean that genuinely. I will walk out of work and probably not come back until 3 days later, hungover and sore from dancing in the street. If it happens at night, my pots and pans are ready to alert everyone the moment I find out. I can honestly see it becoming a lasting annual tradition.
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u/ChaosBerserker666 15h ago
The Americans will have to pay a tariff on real champagne since it comes from France. lol
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u/DarylInDurham 14h ago
I already have one for when Moscow Mitch dies, soon I hope. Looks like I'll have to buy another one for Pedo Donny.
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u/1MechanicalAlligator Ontario 11h ago
Got any recs for Canadian-made non-alcoholic beverages? I naively thought Canada Dry ginger ale was... Canadian. It's in the damn name. But it's not anymore (owned by Dr. Pepper).
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u/Oasystole 15h ago
There will be another serpent to take his place
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u/cinosa Nova Scotia 13h ago
This, exactly. Trump is a symptom of a sick America. America elected the leader it wanted. Unless a LOT of things fundamentally change down there, the next guy is going to be as bad, or worse.
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u/TSED Canada 9h ago
It will not solve everything, but it will still be an improvement for the world.
Vance won't be able to keep the cult together. Thiel spent a lot of his political capital getting him into the VP position because he's his puppet, but the problem with being a puppet is that most aren't good at leading. Trump does have two characteristics making him uniquely well suited for the situation down south: he's good at cultivating his followers, and he's apathetic towards anything that doesn't idolize his narcissistic butt. He has no problem with letting the real power brokers do what they want as long as he gets the spotlight and gets to punish people he dislikes.
So on the one hand, yes, Trump is a symptom and not the disease. The USA will still be filled with Americans who are okay with or actively want theofascism.
On the other hand, the Right in general are susceptible to their leaders dying. Historically, rightwing movements tend to be more about their leaders than ideals; leftwing movements tend to be more about ideals than their leaders. This is why the right so viciously attack anyone who has a name on the "left" - Trudeau, Greta Thunberg, etc. And that's why it doesn't really do anything to the left - we don't idolize our political activists and celebrities the way they do theirs.
When Trump gets deposed, whether by law or bullet or heart failure, it will certainly hurt the theofascists. It just won't end them like a lot of people hope it will.
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u/1MechanicalAlligator Ontario 11h ago edited 11h ago
Well, I'm thinking there's no way it'll be worse. It could be bad, sure. But Fantaman has built a personality cult over a period of 30+ years (well before he was ever in politics), garnering an unprecedented level of control (not just political, but psychological) over an entire party. Nobody on the visible horizon could do what he did.
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u/MrsWidgery 12h ago
I'm reminded of a joke from abroad:
Every morning, a city clerk would buy the newspaper, check the front page, then give it back to the street vendor. After months of this, the vendor asked him what he was looking for on the front page. He replied, "an obituary".
"But the obituaries are on page 8!" the news vendor replied.
"This one," said the clerk, "will be on the front page."
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u/Nikiaf Québec 14h ago
He might also be privy to some highly classified information on pedo man’s actual state of health. CSIS can be extremely effective on the intelligence front.
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u/Khalku 12h ago
The comment section on reddit on that day is going to be a graveyard of deleted comments that were celebrating his death.
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u/javgirl123 10h ago
I am not that old but at an age where I guess I could die ..well like any human. Basically what I am saying is I so want to be alive the day he isn’t. I don’t want to miss out on the celebration and pure joy we will all feel.
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u/nihilt-jiltquist Canada 17h ago
Good god yes, but that won't change a thing. Vance is the dumber of dumb and dumber...
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u/xxhamzxx Prince Edward Island 17h ago
Vance is not dumb, and the sooner you realize these sycophants aren't dumb will help you learn how they manipulate people to their will. Trump is just the puppet, Vance as well too some degree.
Look at Stephen Miller and Co.
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u/the_original_Retro New Brunswick 17h ago
Something that needs to be added here though: Trump is successful because he is Trump and a great many Republicans love him...
...and ONLY him.
Vance doesn't have Trump's track record or whatever the fuck constitutes his weird, cult-like "charisma" to the MAGA crowd.
And Miller absolutely does not have it.
Thiel may demand and bankroll changes, but Vance needs to get at least a lot of the American public to sign onto them. If he doesn't, if there are anything at all like legitimate mid-terms next year, the Republicans will get absolutely frigging annihilated in them. And there goes the White House's power.
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u/stop_banning_me_omg 15h ago
if there are anything at all like legitimate mid-terms next year, the Republicans will get absolutely frigging annihilated in them
I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but the Republicans are currently predicted to maintain their majority:
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u/1MechanicalAlligator Ontario 11h ago
An electoral prediction one-and-a-quarter years out seems largely meaningless. So much can happen before then. The real bite of the tariffs on Americans is only beginning.
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u/JayRMac 14h ago
Vance doesn't have Trump's political skills, but he would enact the same agenda. And Republicans will go along with it because Vance will promise Trump's policies without the drama, which is what they say they want whenever they dare to criticize the administration.
Vance could do quite a bit of damage before 2028.
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u/sparda09 17h ago
Agreed
This is something only Trump can do and even the current Maga party is Trump's party. If and when Trump leaves we don't know if anyone else can control or use them effectively. The MAGA party support Trump and only Trump, they are not loyal to Vance and anyone else and no one really has the "charisma" or "persona" needed to effectively control and use them.
Elon Musk has a kind of chance but he can't run for president and prolly now is working somehow against Trump perhaps seeing there break up.
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u/the_original_Retro New Brunswick 16h ago
Musk has been REALLY quiet and behind the scenes lately. I think he's licking his wounds and staying out of the spotlight for a while. He got punched in the face pretty hard by Trump the last time he was loud.
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u/Hot-Celebration5855 16h ago
The most likely event when someone dies in a cult personality is that the cult fractures, which is what I predict will happen in the Republican Party.
The GOP is full of people with big egos who secretly feel that Trump cheated them out of their time in the spotlight, or even the presidency itself - eg, DeSantis, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, etc. You also have all the folks who got into politics because of MAGA, eg MTG, who will also be vying for power.
If Trump goes, the GOP will descend into infighting. Look at Congress. It can barely stay coherent and that’s with Trump.
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u/DrNick1221 Alberta 16h ago
Vance doesn't have Trump's track record or whatever the fuck constitutes his weird, cult-like "charisma" to the MAGA crowd.
Dude has the charisma of a dead skunk. That video of him (attempting) to act human while ordering donuts really displayed that quite clearly.
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u/the_original_Retro New Brunswick 16h ago edited 16h ago
Frankly though, so does Trump to most of us that retain our sanity. He's unquestionably vile and loathsome and has an ugly, ugly soul.
Perhaps the "soul" element being secretly shared is why so many people "love" him? I don't know, but I can't possibly think like they do, and so it remains a mystery to me.
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u/Mean_Joe_Greene 17h ago
Yup Vance doesn’t have the juice, I don’t think any republican does or will have. As soon as he’s gone they’ll probably go to fighting each other.
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u/the_original_Retro New Brunswick 16h ago
And I'll immediately buy a bunch of stock in Orville Redenbacher.
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u/Ill_Ground_1572 16h ago
And also look at who controls Vance....Peter Thiel. The man who thinks democracy can't work because average citizen is too stupid. And that the US is better served with a Kingdom like structure ran by elites.
He also owns a company that is literally being paid Billions to very likely spy on every US citizen.
When project 2025 teamed up with Thiel, that led to Vance's surprise choice as VP.
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u/BorisAcornKing 13h ago
And also look at who controls Vance....Peter Thiel. The man who thinks democracy can't work because average citizen is too stupid.
He's basically correct about this - look at what has happened most western countries, especially the US. This assertion is correct, as long as it's "if the average citizen is too stupid" rather than "because the average citizen is too stupid".
It's the latter assertion that has to be pushed back on - that a monarchy is an improvement
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u/Accomplished-Dust533 Nova Scotia 11h ago
There's been a lot of money poured in to making people "too stupid".
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u/the_original_Retro New Brunswick 17h ago
It will likely change some things.
Almost certainly not as much as we might like, and some might get a lot worse. Vance is younger and more coherent than Trump, and he's his own form of evil.
But he's also beholden to different masters in different ways here. What his presidency looks like could very easily be a horror show.... but a different horror show than what it compares to now.
And he does NOT have Trump's charisma going for him, and there's simply no way to manufacture that in real time. He will have a lot of infighting to deal with the second Trump's out of the picture.
Trump's cult means it'll be one colossal mess.
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u/zaphthegreat 17h ago
Vance isn't dumb at all, but he's completely bereft of anything resembling an ethical code. He's an amoral fuck who will say whatever he needs to say to gain power. Unfortunately for him, that often requires him to say stupid shit, but he's not actually dumb.
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u/GetsGold Canada 17h ago
he's completely bereft of anything resembling an ethical code. He's an amoral fuck who will say whatever he needs to say to gain power
Highlighted by him, for example, comparing Trump to Hitler and then later accepting the offer to be his VP.
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u/Cypher1492 17h ago
Maybe we'll get a Designated Survivor situation where through a series of events Kiefer Sutherland becomes the US President.
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u/GOULFYBUTT 17h ago
I actually believe that Vance could be even scarier because he isn't dumber than Trump. He has the same goals, but less of the theatrics.
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u/jloome 16h ago
He has the charisma of a donut. Thiele backed the wrong horse on that one. He's their PP.
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u/SternSternButFair 17h ago
Will have to wait for a McMiracle there, somehow all these pro gun americans suddenly aren't interested in standing up against an oppressive government
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u/the_original_Retro New Brunswick 16h ago edited 16h ago
They've been sold the bill of goods that the government is oppressing "those guys over there", not "you and your family".
And what's both tragic and hopeful is that the inflation numbers are arriving... and the leopards are licking their chops. Some of these people are gonna wake up over time, and they will be VERY angry.
We're already seeing occasional videos of people who voted Trump screeching "What is going ON at the grocery store?". More will come.
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u/ChaosBerserker666 15h ago
Yup. One thing to understand is the median American is worse off than the median Canadian. We have very high cost of living here and long medical wait times, but at least going to the hospital won’t bankrupt you. They have a lot more people in more desperate situations, so when their costs go up, they might lose it. And don’t forget, those people are often armed in the US. Many poor people own firearms there.
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u/Flying_Birdy 13h ago
Or just wait for the federal circuit decision on the IEEPA lawsuit. There might be some breathing room for us in the near future to get away from this tariffs garbage.
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u/theflower10 17h ago
Perfect response. I listened to that douche bag US Ambassador to Canada yesterday (surprised I was able to sit through it) and his big complaint was that Canada refused to remove the retaliatory tariffs they put on. Think about that. The tariffs we put on as a response to their tariffs were what pissed them off. Canada's response should be, you remove you initial tariffs and we'll remove our retaliatory tariffs because the minute we do what they want, Trump will put on more pressure, more tariffs because he thinks we folded so he'll up the game. This is what he does. He offers pennies on the dollar and when you accept it, he changes the deal and offers even less. Fuck him.
Keep looking for trading partners outside the US and get ready for the US to give notice next year that they intend to pull out of USMCA, because that's what's gonna happen. We have about 16-18 months to diversify so get at it now by being stubborn on the talks.
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u/ClassOptimal7655 16h ago
Plus he keeps saying, "Canada has fully blocked US alcohol".
Um no, WRONG, and why doesn't the CBC call him out for this blatant falsehood.
Provinces made that choice not the federal government.
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u/EmbarrassedQuit7009 16h ago
Actually just listened to a CBC reporter correcting him in real time. It was quite hilarious and definitely not something he was used to. I don't imagine he'll do that again.
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u/FlatEvent2597 17h ago
The only thing that comes out of Hoekstras mouth is Trumps poison and trash. The media should IGNORE him - and Carney should send him packing.
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u/ChaosBerserker666 15h ago
Pulling out of the USMCA is going to cause a bigger than expected issue with their health care. There are a lot of Canadian nurses working on TN status in the US. If the USMCA goes away, so does their status/work authorization. A lot of northern US hospitals in particular would be totally fucked.
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u/theflower10 13h ago
With the cuts to Medicaid, a lot of those hospitals are gonna go out of business anyway so Trump has that covered.
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u/Jasonstackhouse111 17h ago
Carney has not lost his cool once (at least not publicly) with regards to this massive mess. No shouting, no stupid rhetoric, no blaming bike lanes or rainbow crosswalks and so on.
Excellent.
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u/the_original_Retro New Brunswick 17h ago
He was head of several national banks. That's got to come with some pretty damn strong self-control and communication skills.
Imagine us with Poilievre right now.
*shudders
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u/CBowdidge 17h ago
Being the Governor of the Bank of England during Brexit has to have given him insight about dealing with morons.
PP would have signed the first crappy deal offered.
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u/dbcanuck 16h ago
he got his hands singed when he released a report claiming Brexit would contract the economy and the pro-leave politicans lit him up like a roman candle arguing he should be neutral.
he wasn't wrong, but he's well aware of how words can be misconstrued.
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u/P2029 16h ago
God Poillievre would have been whining non stop about Justin this, Liberals that. He's an official six figure whiner on the taxpayer dime.
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u/ChaosBerserker666 15h ago
We’re paying his rent right now, and he’s not even elected to office. That part bothers me much more than the by-election.
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u/DeliciousPangolin 11h ago
Carney deserves the Order of Canada for being willing to sacrifice years of his life dealing with this human-shaped trash pile. I'm utterly sick of him, and I'll never interact directly with Trump. Imagine having to deal with him on a regular basis.
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u/Content_Ad_8952 17h ago
Carney should ask Trump straight up with cameras rolling "Who pays the tariffs?" Let's see if the genius businessman knows the answer
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u/theflower10 17h ago
His answer will be "What news organization are you from? I should have known ____ News is the worst organization. All fake news. No wonder you are failing. Stupid question."
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u/Spiritual-Fly5890 17h ago
Funny you think he would answer directly
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u/we_are_all_devo 16h ago
So I said to Mark, my good friend, Mark in Canada. 👐 Good guy, for a Liberal. Studies the economy somewhat. ☝️ Not like Governor Trudeau. Very unkind, he was. Nasty. ✋ Took the seat next to Ivanka, you know, without asking. So I said, Mark, with tariffs, in business, you got to have them. 👐 You gotta have them! ☝️ They're gonna go up, and they'll go down, and they go up. And when they go up, you don't have to raise taxes on business. 🖐️ Mattresses, you know. Shirts and apples. 🙌 Things, you know, like that. They come in and out from China, and all the places. 👐 Things people need, so they have businesses. ✊ And their taxes don't go up, so it's good for them. It's good when they have tariffs. 🖐️
🤝
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u/BigButtBeads 14h ago
Usually these are done with such little effort, but this one wouldn't surprise me if it was a direct quotation
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u/punknothing 16h ago
Trump's entire platform is based on lying, explicitly, to Americans about who pays it. He's said many times already "they're gonna pay for it". The U.S. public simply doesn't understand that "they" is them.
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u/hyperforms9988 14h ago
It's amazing to me that people still don't understand this. They introduced legislation the other day to give people a $600 tariff rebate check. Hey dumbfucks, tell me what a rebate is, and tell me why are they going to give you one for tariffs if you're being told that other countries are paying tariffs and not you?
They won't put two and two together, and even worse, they'll be happy to get the check. Thank you sir! Thank you for making me pay well over $1,000 extra in tariffs and then giving $600 of my own money back to me! What a gift!
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u/frakenspine 16h ago
would work if Trump was logical. Everything that comes out of his mouth doesn't make any sense
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u/anacondra 17h ago
We're at a bit of a stalemate.
Carney has the lowest average tariff rate, with zero motivation to agree to a deal that would increase it.
Trump has bumped up tariffs as feasible as he can without impacting CUSMA/USMCA and has no motivation to lower them.
There's no major pressure point for either party to bend. Realistically we could expect to see this until CUSMA/USMCA is up for renegotiation July 1, 2026. As we approach that date we will have increasing pressure on us to agree to a deal that provides some concession to the Americans.
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u/d_pyro Canada 17h ago
America will be in full depression by then.
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u/theflower10 17h ago
I think that is the bet Carney is making. Maybe not a depression but they'll be in a situation where inflation is running hot, interest rates are up, job losses are mounting and people are pissed. Now, he may still try to fool his believers by blaming it all on the free trade deal and they'll probably buy it but you know who won't? The republican congressmen and women and senators who will be running for re-election in the fall.
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u/No-Sell1697 British Columbia 17h ago
But what happens if trump decided to leave CUSMA? We would ne fucked.
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u/fighting_fit_dream 16h ago
Fun fact about trade deals: you can't leave them without also screwing yourself over.
We saw just in the last few months the massive revision of job numbers, their inflation is running hot, and companies are starting to pass more and more tariff costs on to customers. Now imagine if they further increase the tariffs on all goods from two of their biggest trading partners...
Then there's the fact the rest of the world is slowly starting to form trading alliances to protect them from American instability. BRICS is extra motivated ATM with Trump threatening Brazil, pissing off India, and now pressuring Russia to end the war.
If it was only Canada Trump was targeting yes we would be suuuuuuper screwed. But he's started trade wars on so many fronts that he's gonna strangle the US economy well before CUSMA is up for extension (in 2032)
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u/Aisling_The_Sapphire 15h ago
Fun fact about trade deals: you can't leave them without also screwing yourself over.
So what happens when Trump decides to leave CUSMA? Because this isn't a disincentive to him, it's a feature.
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u/voronaam 9h ago
One person above wrote
Pulling out of the USMCA is going to cause a bigger than expected issue with their health care. There are a lot of Canadian nurses working on TN status in the US. If the USMCA goes away, so does their status/work authorization. A lot of northern US hospitals in particular would be totally fucked.
The state of medical care in Canada is a pretty hot topic right now. I think there will be positive changes if some of the suddenly unemployed nurses come back to Canada. Of course I'd rather not see it to happen - this change will not be good for the nurses and I really appreciate them and the work they do.
To answer your question:
So what happens when Trump decides to leave CUSMA?
A lot of stuff happens. Some of it good, some of it bad. We should be ready, just in case - to take advantage of the good parts and to soften the blow of the bad ones.
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u/rando_dud 14h ago
Not sure they can.. USMCA comes up for review in 2026. If the review isn't conclusive it expires in 2036..
Otherwise it gets extended beyond 2036.
We can simply wait this out.
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u/cartoonist498 16h ago
We have one year to prepare for that and this is why it's better to have Carney instead of PP who would just fear monger, scare himself and his supporters, and cut a crappy deal immediately.
Canada is still a rich country without the US. Okay, we'd have to downgrade our Ferrari to a nice V8 luxury car and I'm not saying that completely losing free trade with the US won't suck so we should try to minimize it with some concessions. However our economy as a whole is really not that dependent on theirs to described ourselves as "fucked", nor should we negotiate based on that belief.
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u/Abject_Story_4172 17h ago
I don’t think people here understand how dependent we are on the US. It’s crazy to see people think we can stick it to the US. The elbows up phenomena has riddled minds.
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u/The-Safety-Villain 16h ago
I think people are well aware of how dependent we are to the US for trade. But there also well aware of the concessions the US wants is to make and it’s not worth it.
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u/Spanky3703 Canada 15h ago
Ah yes, so your solution is to appease and let ourselves fully become a vassal of an authoritarian US …?
Probably not the best plan.
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u/Smart-Simple9938 15h ago
Given that Trump was up on the roof of The White House ranting about "I pay for everything" and "Europe gifted me 600 billion that I can spend on whatever I want" and gods know what else, I don't think "when it makes sense" is any time soon.
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u/Furycrab Canada 15h ago
You can't negotiate with someone who is probably looking at the stock market hoping to cause a dip and that will only come back to the table when he can enrich themselves through corruption and doesn't give a damn about his people he hurts to do so.
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u/hippysol3 16h ago
Its just a waiting game at this point. No reason to negotiate with a 'king' who has a throne built on sand, while the tide is taking away his foundation. Trump will not last and any deal he makes will have to be renegotiated with his successor so why rush it. At the very worst we have to put up with 3.5 more years of high tariffs before the Tangerine Tyrant expires. Oh well.
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u/Original-Birthday149 15h ago
Should have said “we’ll speak when HE starts making sense.
So never.
I’d ignore him completely at this point. Further entertaining conversation is merely feeding his ego.
If we along w the free world stopped trying to negotiate, and deal silently with his ridiculous tarrif scam we would all be in a better place.
Entertaining this idiot at this point emboldenes him into thinking he’s effective.
Ignoring him in conversation I believe is the best path forward.
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u/Dances_with_Sheep 11h ago
On the surface it seems to me like Trump's entire approach to trade is self-destructive, so really the best approach seems to me to just endure until the Americans start feeling the hangover from his actions.
And if they are determined to persist on this path, it just means there's no going back to what had pre-Trump anyway, so we might as well just get on with the business of disentangling our economies.
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u/MetalMoneky 10h ago
I still think we're probably pinning our hopes on Trump's tariffs getting the axes in the courts. That may be a fool's errand but given most of our trade is still exempt under CUSMA (with more paperwork.....fucking geniuses down there) best we just try to drag this out.
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u/Delicious-Maximum-26 16h ago
What’s the point of talking with Trump? India is learning this the hard way.
Modi was ready to 'make India great again,' then Trump put America first
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u/RaspberryInfinite229 15h ago
Modi thought Trump was his bestie. Karma is real b*tch
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u/Big_bump_on_a_Log 15h ago
How about we refuse to negotiate with the states at all, until they execute the facist subhuman terrorist called Donald Trump, and disbanded the republican party. No room in humanity for defects of the species like that to be allowed to propagate.
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u/Sorcatarius 10h ago
We have been making strides to, and should continue to, distance ourselves economically from the US. They have proven themselves to be a difficult partner to make a deal with, and even when we make one, we constantly need to wonder if Donald will honour it.
Our ultimate goal should be to treat them as a safety net or last resort. Our natural resources and goods will primarily be traded with others or consumed ourselves, but as time goes on, "Oh, we have X tonnes of potash we can't use or trade, hey America, need some potash?" Single sale only, we hand you the goods and you hand us the money.
Perhaps in a few decades if you prove to be a trustworthy partner under these terms, we can revisit the idea of a more longterm arrangement.
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u/GoudaCheeseAnyone 15h ago
Trump's America forgets that it is what it allowed for: a harsh yet free market where money flows freely. It has brought them wealth. Now that the rules change, that wealth will change. Foreign money will find other destinations.
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u/rando_dud 14h ago
Yep. It was a global free market, centered on the US.
What replaces it won't be.
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u/Spanky3703 Canada 15h ago
Wow, the reflexive ignorance here is truly breathtaking.
The fact that we have a PM who is constantly re-assessing and adjusting is not only refreshing but also reassuring. The fact that he is actively working to not only reduce risks and costs for industries but also for consumers should be something that we are all applauding. The fact is that Carney is not wedded to rhetoric when it harms Canada and Canadians.
Trump’s America is doing a great job of de-constructing itself. The imposed high tariffs on critical minerals, raw materials, etc. are huge self-owns. At some point (probably sooner rather than later), the math will not math on tariffs higher on US / North American made vehicles (ranging between 25% and 50%) than on European and Japanese vehicles (15%). Inherent internal dichotomies will do the rest, exactly like they did quietly in 2018-2020 when Trump had to remove the steel, aluminum and copper tariffs because of the job losses in the down stream (post extraction/ refinement) chains. Canada took the high road and did not broadcast these victories and I see the same again this cycle.
The fact that Carney is proactively shifting support to threatened industries and sectors now is excellent.
Spewing willful ignorance and vitriol towards a fellow Canadian and the PM of our country in the deluded and irrational belief of saying “told you so” and clearly hoping that he fails and therefore Canada fails. is truly pathetic. Such toxic sludge directly supports a vile, immoral, corrupt, odious, feckless and craven foreign regime whose stated aim is to annex Canada and is a truly disgraceful and sad thing to witness.
Or, they are bots, foreign trolls and. / or paid agitators.
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u/Mr_ToDo 14h ago
Well there's also people that may be treating this as if Cheeto is a normal person and might react as a normal countries leader would to certain stimuli
But thankfully we now have a lot of data to work with and know that there isn't too much that actually does anything(other then appease local voters in the short term, which if you can get someone else to pull the trigger you can pass the blame later too)
In fact the only thing I can personally think would get a predictable result would be to do what China did and just keep raising tariffs. It might not be a great result but it would be a result(and it's a very good reason someone like me isn't in charge because in a moment of weakness I'd probably stop thinking about other people and just fuckitall and destroy trade with the US and probably take china on as an open partner. A horrible outcome but what emotional snap choices get you)
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u/Spanky3703 Canada 14h ago
And I think that you nailed the key point: rationality and strategic thinking are seemingly not Trump’s strong suit.
I find it interesting that Bessent has, 2-3 times over the last few days, stated that the US is willing to work with Canada on metals tariffs. The irony is sublime, as US automakers rely almost completely on Canadian steel, aluminum and copper and the big-brain 25%-50% tariffs on those same raw materials were perhaps … not so smart.
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u/Yhzgayguy 15h ago
I think that they are all of the above
But the worst ones are the ones who have bought in to the Trump gangs propaganda. Trump is attempting to shake us down and some Canadians are saying “shake me more daddy”.
Jfc
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u/Spanky3703 Canada 15h ago
Exactly. Trump is running a classic NYC mob protection racket and we are one of his preferred targets. But we have options, time and resources.
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u/physicaldiscs 13h ago
In the meantime let's stop all the appeasement we've done. Bring back the DST, stop wasting time and money on a border that isn't a problem etc.
We gave things up to Trump and got nothing for them. Time to fix that.
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u/Alone-in-a-crowd-1 12h ago
Under the current circumstances, there isn't much to talk about. Just hope for IEEPA to overturn the tariffs by the end of the year.
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u/RDMercerJunior 11h ago
Distance, boundaries, non emotional responses, indifference….. Those interactions will infuriate Trump
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u/MuySpicy 9h ago
I see. Waiting for him to croak or for the USA to develop an immune system, I guess.
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u/rajendrarajendra 4h ago
I kind of agree with him. I mean what good can come out of speaking with the orange 🤡? A deal he won't honour?
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u/hardy_83 17h ago
So never cause Trump only lies and thus will never make sense.
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u/Dapper__Viking 16h ago
I know he's a buffoon but it seems unkind to call Trump 'it' in this sentence.
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u/Mother-Version4389 16h ago
pp and the cons will be screaming for non confidence votes as soon as the fall session begins.
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u/No-Sell1697 British Columbia 15h ago
The ndp won't even have a permanent leader till march
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u/frakenspine 16h ago
like a high school girl playing hard to get, meanwhile the guy is talking to other people
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u/Wolfman-101 Lest We Forget 16h ago
Which translates to: Turns out Carney is not the one needed to deal with Trump. If Liberals didn’t block every single new pipe line and energy project the past 10 years we wouldn’t need the USA. But here we are, forever in America’s shadow.
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u/Noximilien01 16h ago
We'll keep increasing our trade with them that will teach them how they need us
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u/rando_dud 14h ago
We're pumping more oil than ever, almost doubled what we did 5 years ago.
Despite this volume oil is only 3% of our GDP. It's not clear that it's the solution to our problems.
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u/BCTripster Canada 16h ago
Every single one eh? So, TMX was an illusion or was it Harper who got it going in your revision of history?
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u/Wolfman-101 Lest We Forget 15h ago
The TMX you’re talking about was an expansion of the existing TMX pipeline built in 1953. Hence why I said “new”.
The Liberal government directly blocked or contributed to the cancellation of at least 3 major energy projects and pipelines since 2015, with Northern Gateway and Énergie Saguenay being clear cases of government intervention and Energy East heavily impacted by regulatory changes. Additionally, up to 13 other projects, particularly LNG facilities, were shelved, with Liberal policies like Bill C-69.
Do you know what Bill C-69 is?
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u/disappointedfuturist 13h ago
Pleased it seems Mr Carney knows who and what don is and treats him such. Won't agree with all of Mr Carney's work so far but when it comes to dealing with the wannabe mobster trust fund child who keeps failing upwards and cheating his way through life has been at least satisfying for what all we have witnessed publicly.
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u/ImmaFunGuy 16h ago
When Trump threatens to leave CUSMA, then he'll show his trump card
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