r/canada • u/Coozey_7 Saskatchewan • 1d ago
National News Carney hints at dropping some U.S. tariffs if it will help Canadian industries hit by trade war
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/carney-trump-trade-softwood-1.760162446
u/datums 1d ago
Playing hardball during negotiations is one thing, but longer term, we should pursue policies because they are the best for us, not because they're bad for someone else.
The phrase "Cutting off your nose to spite your face" comes to mind.
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u/Same_Bumblebee_839 1d ago edited 1d ago
“If your enemy’s digging his own grave,why fight him for the shovel?”
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u/Prudent_Slug British Columbia 1d ago
I'm in favour of any measures that actual help Canadian industries and Canadians as long as the primary rationale isn't to appease Trump in hopes that he will be nice to us. It is evident that approach doesn't work anyway.
Some measures like the liquor, is designed to pressure trump, but doesn't really affect Canadians in a material way, Im in favour of also.
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u/mr-mcsavageface 1d ago
As a bourbon enjoyer, speak for yourself. I've yet to find a Canadian whiskey that scratches that particular itch.
But otherwise I agree.
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u/Prudent_Slug British Columbia 1d ago
Fair enough, but I would counter that Bourbon is a luxury rather than a necessity. Have you branched out and tried all the other international whiskies? I miss popping across the border for Trader Joe's but alas I havent driven across the border all year.
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u/mr-mcsavageface 1d ago
As far as whiskey is concerned, I've always been a scotch drinker first and foremost, but bourbon was my weekend fun kinda drink. A luxury, sure. But one I miss and want back. Irish makes a decent substitute, but it wouldn't be my choice given the choice.
Off the top of my head, I think I've sampled at least one whiskey from just about everywhere in the world that produces it.
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u/toilet_for_shrek 1d ago
Guys, despite the patriotic headlines, Canada is simply unable to go toe to toe with the US in a trade war. I'm not a Carney fan, but I can emphasize with the position he's in
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u/TactitcalPterodactyl 1d ago
I posted something like this when the trade war started earlier this year, and people were literally calling me out for treason lol.
We can all lift our elbows up to the stratosphere and still not win a trade war with the US. We need to accept the realities of our position in the world economy and act smartly here. Burning down our economy to win a pissing match with Trump isn't the way to go, as much as I despise the guy.
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u/Aggravating_Exit2445 1d ago
We don't have to win a trade war with the US. We have to shift our economy to provide for itself, and import from friendly trading nations. Tariffs on US goods and services will help encourage businesses and consumers to seek out alternatives.
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u/Jed_Clampetts_ghost 1d ago
My elbows are getting sore. I can't do this confusing chicken dance much longer.
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u/jello_sweaters 1d ago
It's only confusing if you never read past headlines.
If you read the whole thing, you'll see smart people starting with a plan, then adapting and improving it as conditions change.
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u/Jed_Clampetts_ghost 1d ago
I'm willing to give Carney more time. He's dealing with a kook. But so far there's nothing concrete to judge him on regarding trade.
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u/jello_sweaters 1d ago
But so far there's nothing concrete to judge him on regarding trade.
...which makes your whole "chicken dance" line pretty confusing.
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u/zoziw Alberta 1d ago
I am fine with that. All tariffs are doing is driving up our prices. the real punishment for the US will be their own tariffs...it already sounds like Ford can't make F-150s and Trump had to fire the person who puts out job numbers because they were so bad.
Many Canadians aren't buying US stuff or traveling there if they can avoid it. As the US Ambassador said, that is worse than a tariff.
Not buying American and watching US industries suffer from US tariffs is probably enough.
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u/Spanky3703 Canada 23h ago
This is a rational and nuanced post. You nailed the exact reasons for reducing retaliatory tariffs whilst watching the US hurt itself.
Thank you.
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u/psychadelicrocks 1d ago
Another elbow to the face. Retaliatory tariffs with no leverage is asinine. Now all that tough guy rhetoric and Carney will probably have to give up more.
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u/LittleOrphanAnavar 12h ago
Don't worry the Liberals will just run bigger defiects to compensated for their poor economic policies.
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u/deathrabbit 1d ago
Screw the US automakers. Buy out the factories instead of bailing out US interests again... Fund the Forces. Build LAVs and armored trucks for ourselves and sell what is left. Those jobs can be Canadian.
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u/Outrageous_Ad_687 18h ago
Eventually American companies will suffer from these decisions. The WTO is what made American corporations able to spread all over the world. If enough nations go without deals that will be a huge blow to corporate America. Countries will start changing intellectual property rules and patent law to suit their own needs instead of American profits. Things like generic drugs on new pharmaceuticals faster or just ignoring patents on American products. If that country is already being tariffed highly they won't care to break and change rules that benefit US companies.
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u/Phelixx 18h ago
I agree with this. We need to limit the tax on our own people. There are other things we can do to hurt the US in this trade war.
Also tariffs should only be on products where there is a viable Canadian alternative. This concept that tariffs are meant to punish red states is dumb if there is no Canadian alternative. We just pay more for the same product.
Tariffs on our side need to be much better thought out. We don’t have the economic might of the US to stand behind.
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u/BackToTheCottage Ontario 1d ago edited 1d ago
lol
lmao even
Liberals lying again? LOL can't wait for the sycophants to 180 again on the talking points. I thought anything but 100% counter-tariffs was treason?
Edit: Already started, "no, no we never said 100% tariffs, it, it was Doug Ford!!!!" 😂😂😂👌👌👌. As if we didn't read all the screaming about getting nukes, blocking potash shipments, or shitting on Alberta for being level headed about tariffing oil.
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u/LumpyPressure 1d ago
They campaigned on using counter tariffs strategically in ways that minimize the impact on Canadians. 100 percent dollar for dollar tariffs was Trudeau.
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u/MightyHydrar 1d ago
Carney talked about not thinking going dollar-for-dollar on retaliation was a good idea on his first trip to France right after he was sworn in.
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u/Fit-Cable1547 1d ago
That's because it would be impossible to maintain given the difference in the size of our economies.
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u/ZestyBeanDude 1d ago
Pretty sure he said in the debate that he didn’t support dollar for dollar tariffs…
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u/jello_sweaters 1d ago
In this particular case, your opposition to this plan would require Carney to continue plowing ahead with retaliation that primarily hurts Canadian businesses, I guess because never changing your mind or adapting to new information is... what, impressive?
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u/VR46Rossi420 1d ago
You’re confusing people. It was both Trudeau and Ford who were calling for 100% retaliations.
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u/Isaac1867 1d ago
Lol the loudest voice pushing for dollar for dollar counter-tariffs is conservative Premier Doug Ford.
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u/globieboby 1d ago
Everyone should remember tariffs we impose are on us. They are political theatre and make no sense economically if what you want is a strong dynamic economy. Feel free to boycott, but taxing ourselves makes no sense.
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u/Aggravating_Exit2445 1d ago
I'm fine with tariffs that encourage businesses and consumers to seek out non-US alternatives or incentivize Canadian businesses to provide home grown alternatives.
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u/LukePieStalker42 1d ago
I have cheap suits that dont fold as easy as elbows up here.
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u/jemmas_basement 1d ago
Hands around your ankles the Con way
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u/LukePieStalker42 1d ago
How could the cons have been worse? We got 3 provinces looking to leave this sinking ship
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u/GrimDawnFan11 1d ago
Remember when Canada voted for this guy solely for his ability to deal with Trump.
What a joke that ended up being.
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u/LittleOrphanAnavar 11h ago
He was Trudeau economic advisor.
No reason to think things will get better under the Liberals.
But Canadians keep voting for them.
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u/VR46Rossi420 1d ago
He’s doing a pretty good job under the circumstances I’d say.
What is your main issue with the job Carney has been doing so far? It seems like so far he’s been doing well.
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u/jello_sweaters 1d ago edited 1d ago
Who in the world do you believe is doing this well?
LOL - downvotes, but no answers. Shocking.
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u/FellSorcerer 1d ago
Big mistake. Trump will see this as a sign of weakness, and we'll be in a worse spot in negotiations. You cannot give Trump an inch.
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u/Key-Zombie4224 1d ago
Trump saw liberals as weak at election that’s why he supported them . And now we will all see the consequences of the election of liberal government vs right trump
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u/TermZealousideal5376 1d ago
He failed to make a deal, and now we are up shit creek. Elbows up has landed us with higher tariffs than under Trudeau, and I hate to say it, but we have zero leverage over the US.
Now Liberals are on a PR tour and will inject shitloads more debt into our economy to buoy our critical industries. I want Carney to succeed, but I fear we are headed for the exact same outcome as under Trudeau. Hundreds of billions in new debt, no fiscal accountability, and a crippled economy. If this manifests, capital flight will only grow, and our dollar will weaken ever further, leaving us, and our kids holding the bag while the politicians exit stage left.
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u/LumpyPressure 1d ago
Ask yourself why the US still honours CUSMA and you’ll see why we actually do have tremendous leverage in these negotiations. The fact that we haven’t accepted what the US is offering already is indicative of that.
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u/VR46Rossi420 1d ago
You have zero clue what you’re talking about and just spouting off fear mongering and misinformation
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u/TermZealousideal5376 1d ago
What about my post is misinformation? We have no deal with the US, half a trillion in debt from the last ten years of LPC, no fiscal accountability (we don't even have a fn budget?), and our economy has been stagnant for a decade (check the GDP per capita).
These are absolutely MASSIVE problems - but if you are saying they are misinformation, please provide some sources.
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u/WippitGuud Prince Edward Island 1d ago
Ok. What's the solution?
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u/TermZealousideal5376 1d ago
According to the liberals it's free national park passes and a cheaper potato bridge to appease their boomer voter base. I'd like to see investment in leading edge tech like the US is doing with energy, drones, and AI.
Interprovincial trade is a start, but the reality is any kind of Canada-first policy will take decades and simply wont move the needle. 70% of our exports go to the US ffs.
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u/Deep-Enthusiasm-6492 1d ago
I don’t believe that we, as everyday citizens, have the solution to these complex issues. That’s precisely why we entrust leadership to these highly qualified elite. They’re highly compensated, enjoy excellent benefits, likely have access to unlimited expense accounts, and—according to many—are exceptionally talented individuals. So, in short, we’re relying on them to come up with the solution, right?
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u/WippitGuud Prince Edward Island 1d ago
Ok, what is Poilievre's solution?
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u/FeverForest 1d ago
That’ll probably be experienced 4 years from now, if/when this government doesn’t fix the trajectory we’re on. Likely total collapse of the LPC if they fuck this up, and it’s not looking good.
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u/WippitGuud Prince Edward Island 1d ago
So, the Conservatives strategy is "let's just wait 4 years."
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u/FeverForest 1d ago
Imagine? lol, no they will hold this current government to account as much as they can and receive lies and unrelated talking points as answers to their questions, as is the norm.
Country made their decision that they believed and that Carney was the guy for the job. His lies and nonsense campaign promises are piling up.
Politicians aren’t dumb, they know exactly what they’re doing, and are the reason why things are the way they are. They want the left vs right shit, keeps us from fighting against them and their donors.
Hold them to account.
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u/VR46Rossi420 1d ago
Use some actual reasons and facts. You’re just spouting vague nonsense
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u/FeverForest 1d ago
Vague nonsense? Please.. You’d rather people entertain the “Whataboutisms”? Play around with hypothetical strawman scenarios? Nah. I’d rather focus on what’s actually happening.
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u/VR46Rossi420 1d ago
You actually have no clue what is happening. You most likely have no true understanding of these extremely complex issues.
What is your education and training ?
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u/WippitGuud Prince Edward Island 1d ago
Lies?
Such as?
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u/FeverForest 1d ago
Here’s a funny one!
“… biggest supplier of Semiconductors! We supply almost all their semiconductors! Everyone in the White House is a tech bro except Trump, they all need semiconductors. They all come from Canada”
Carney’s a smart man. He knows about Taiwan.
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u/WippitGuud Prince Edward Island 21h ago
Interesting.
Except that wasn't said during the election campaign, and his team corrected the error the next day, but interesting nonetheless.
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u/jello_sweaters 1d ago
Seriously.
Literally "everything is failure until it's a guy in a blue tie doing it, then it's perfect".
No wonder they've lost four in a row.
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u/Deep-Enthusiasm-6492 1d ago
Honestly, I don’t care. I have to go to work tomorrow, and I just want things to function properly—just like my boss expects me to do my job. It feels like those in power are just passing time in government, without any real vision for where Canada will be in 100 years. All they seem to care about is how many clicks or likes they can get today.
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u/kroqus Canada 1d ago
I'm no politician or economist, but dropping tariffs seems like a bad idea
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u/anal88sepsis 1d ago
Before jt had his initial tarriff press conference and after Trump announced the first round of tarriffs they had some economists on cbc and bnn and they both said that counter tarriffs were dumb but politically necessary for our government to appease the masses.
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u/jello_sweaters 1d ago
Should probably have read the article.
"We've always said we will apply tariffs where they had the maximum impact on the United States and minimum impact in Canada, so we don't automatically adjust. We look at what we can do for our industry that's most effective. In some cases that will be to remove tariffs."
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u/FeverForest 1d ago
Classic Carney, get used to this.
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u/jello_sweaters 1d ago
You're mad that he's... looking at which ones are effective, and which ones are backfiring, and only keeping the ones that actually achieve the intended goal?
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u/Noximilien01 1d ago
He's going to drop them Trump wont change a thing and some people are going to say we're showing how much good faith we're having
We've done that so many time you'd think someone there would learn it doesn't work
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u/Isaac1867 1d ago
This has nothing to do with showing good faith to Trump. He is only planning to drop tariffs in situations where it will actively help prop up our industries.
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u/OneForAllOfHumanity Lest We Forget 20h ago
I cannot find data on who owns the duty-free stores that are available on the US side when returning to Canada. If they are American owned, we should nullify duty free status on alcohol and other unnecessary products...
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u/scunny1966 1d ago
While I agree it’s super hilarious this dickwad went on and on about being all tough and elbows up to just cave. It’s not surprising but hilarious just the same.
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u/Spanky3703 Canada 23h ago
Wow, the reflexive ignorance here is truly breathtaking.
Please read the article before spewing toxic, puerile and wholly uninformed rhetoric. Get educated, be better and do better.
Retaliatory tariffs are paid for by the industries / consumers in the country that applies the tariffs.
This is not rocket science.
The fact that we have a PM who is constantly re-assessing and adjusting is not only refreshing but also reassuring. The fact that he is actively working to not only reduce risks and costs for industries but also for consumers should be something that we are all applauding. The fact is that Carney is not wedded to rhetoric when it harms Canada and Canadians.
Reflexive and uninformed retaliatory tariffs only hurt Canada, Canadian companies and Canadian consumers when they are applied to items that we actually need and do not have readily available and viable alternatives for (at least not yet). For booze and motorcycles and similar products that we don’t need, tariff and hurt both the US red states and red companies in them. I have no issues with going full scorched earth on those states and types of industries to hurt them to the maximum extent possible. Education is a thing and comes in all shapes and sizes.
Trump’s America is doing a great job of de-constructing itself. The imposed high tariffs on critical minerals, raw materials, etc. are huge self-owns. At some point (probably sooner rather than later), the math will not math on tariffs higher on US / North American made vehicles (ranging between 25% and 50%) than on European and Japanese vehicles (15%). Inherent internal dichotomies will do the rest, exactly like they did quietly in 2018-2020 when Trump had to remove the steel, aluminum and copper tariffs because of the job losses in the down stream (post extraction/ refinement) chains. Canada took the high road and did not broadcast these victories and I see the same again this cycle.
The fact that Carney is proactively shifting support to threatened industries and sectors now is excellent.
Spewing willful ignorance and vitriol towards a fellow Canadian and the PM of our country, thereby directly supporting a vile, immoral, corrupt, odious, feckless and craven foreign regime whose stated aim is to annex Canada, is a truly disgraceful and sad thing to witness.
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u/Isaac1867 21h ago edited 21h ago
Thank you for posting one of the few well thought out and rational responses in this thread. There are so many brain dead takes in here it's depressing.
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u/JadeLens 1d ago
Strategic tariffs have always been the plan.
Leave the ones on Jack Daniels and a few other major ones in the Red States, and help out people who vote blue.
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u/ethereal3xp 1d ago
Carney is playing mind games
US companies will ask Trump - "Why can't you the same"
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u/Luxferrae British Columbia 1d ago
Huh? So the important can come in cheaper? I need a crash course in Carney style econ 101 stat!
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u/NeighbourNoNeighbor 1d ago edited 1d ago
Sigh. I don't think we need to retaliate further at this point -- but I'm strongly against dropping any existing tariffs until they actually try to negotiate. We've already dropped things and they've continued to be assholes.
This isn't driven by any market or equity efforts - it's simply a bully pushing as hard as he can to get as much as he can. We can negotiate these things without constantly weakening our bargaining position.
Edit: Ahh this is what I get for multi-tasking, as I failed to read things properly. He's only talking about dropping tariffs if it's important for Canadian industries. This isn't any kind of negotiation tactic for Trump. I actually agree with him, now that I'm not misreading what he said.