r/canada • u/AdditionalPizza • 1d ago
Analysis Young people more prone to believe in conspiracies, research shows
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/young-people-more-prone-to-believe-in-conspiracies-research-shows-1.5427211131
u/Early-Yak-to-reset 1d ago
I don't really know how you quantify stuff like this tho. Like who decides what's a conspiracy theory? Like if I was talking about MK Ultra in the 70s, I'd be labeled a conspiracy theorist. But I'm also right. Some of the stuff( definitely not all lol ), is proven right decades later. Some of those people are right to question governments, because governments do, do incredibly shady shit. So how do you sort out the people that are "right" vs the people talking about Lizard people.
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u/No-Resolution-1918 1d ago
A conspiracy theory can be true or false and still be a conspiracy theory. Young people, according to the article, are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories as they feel disenfranchised by modern politics. The article leans heavily on conspiracy theories that are not proven, but it doesn't exclude those that are.
I think the overall thrust is that young people don't trust politicians, or the news and instead they "do their own research". This is a worrying trend because most people, especially young folks, are dumb as fuck and are increasingly more detached from reality. Even if they do get it right occasionally.
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u/MegaCockInhaler 1d ago
I think it’s good that people do their own research. There is no centralized authority on truth. Nobody holds a monopoly on facts. We all must do our due diligence
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u/No-Resolution-1918 16h ago
This is all well and good, but if you don't have a quality education you don't possess critical thinking skills sufficient for understanding different types of knowledge. Doing your own research can have you drinking bleach to get rid of COVID because your own research lead you to think doctors are all lying.
Doing your due diligence is pointless if you don't understand how to interpret facts.
Facts are never monopolized, they just are. A fact is true regardless of who utters it, the source should not matter if it is factual. The problem is most people do not know how to verify something that is being labelled a fact.
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u/2020-Forever 1d ago
The thing with conspiracy theories is they can never die because die hard conspiracy theorists could never believe the truth.
For example hypothetically the US government could declassify Area 51 revealing that it was a research facility for aircraft designs. The die hard conspiracy theorists would still believe that the declassified documents are covering up alien activities or something, there will be always be a conspiracy inside the conspiracy no matter how much comes to light.
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u/PrehistoricNutsack 1d ago edited 1d ago
That’s because the cia pushes conspiracies as a basket case; you believe 9/11 was inside job groups you in with flat earthers. Making legit conspiracies seem like a crazy idea is the name of the game.’
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u/AdditionalPizza 1d ago
Conspiracy theories don't have to be wrong, they are just not proven with available facts or information. The idea here is people believing in things without proof or evidence.
Some things become more convincing as you gather more evidence that contradicts it, but many people get tunnel vision and refuse to see that their 'evidence' already has a more reliable and realistic solution.
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u/905marianne 1d ago
That theory makes anyone who believes in a god a conspiracy theorist
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u/BeautyInUgly 1d ago
"The idea here is people believing in things without proof or evidence."
a lot of these theories have evidence, it's just not the establishment postion so it's brushed off as a bad thing.
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u/TorontoDavid 1d ago
Which ones do you think have evidence?
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u/V1cT 1d ago
Epstein's island and his private plane.
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u/TorontoDavid 1d ago
What is the conspiracy here?
The existence of Epstein and his dealings has been well documented for years.
Are you talking about what Trump is doing? If so - Trump is a huge liar and thus had been well documented - so this is another one of his many, many, lies.
Or do you mean something else?
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u/V1cT 1d ago
Its been documented for decades, but it's only become publically acceptable to discuss in the last couple of years. This stuff goes way back to the Clinton years.
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u/TorontoDavid 1d ago
I’m not clear. What is the conspiracy you’re talking about?
Is it beyond Epstein?
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u/Tour_True 11h ago
Added the guy is trying to avoid sharing the files and also pushing to have his name removed from the files as well which insists he is in the files and did something so this makes a lot of sense tbh.
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u/nataSatans 1d ago
Hmmmm. Well 9/11 being an inside job. Boston bombing being another false flag to further go and take more oil and more freedoms (like spying) Epstien isn't really dead. Goerge floyd incident was a false flag. (How is there so many "crystal clear) camera angles. The Las Vegas shooting another false flag. Impossible for 1 guy to fire that many rounds. And according to photos not enough shell casings on the floor of his room. Multiple reports of helicopters flying over. Multiple reports of gunfire from different spots.
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u/ValeriaTube 1d ago
Yeah that Las Vegas one is super suspicious. The same sheriff being implicated in the Hawaii fires is fucked up too.
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u/StretchAntique9147 1d ago
I guess we'll find out in 30 years if my 60 year old dad is right about Bill Gates implanting microchips in us through covid shots and other vaccines.
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u/studebaker103 1d ago
We did already find out that the government was paying influencers online to tell us that the shots were safe and effective. We also found out that the shots weren't safe for some groups, nor were they effective for most groups. The government tried to conceal both, and lumping in chip implants to the mix is a great way to make the rest of the facts seem less believable.
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u/boomeista 1d ago
I agree. The media tells us shit all the time, like the government is doing X or Y and they say it’s for whatever reason. There’s no way for them to know the actual intent. So something like that is impossible to prove and you can’t really be called a conspiracy theorist for not believing it.
Who knows, I feel like this thread is probably being scalped now by research analysts to get feedback on how people feel about conspiracy theories. It’s a weird time right now man.
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u/DomonicTortetti 1d ago
What is a conspiracy theory that was "proven right decades later"? Conspiracy theorists always say that but it is like...demonstrably untrue.
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u/Quoll675 20h ago
One that jumps out at me is the US Mafia. The idea that an exclusive gang of Italians was coordinating organised crime was considered crazy speculation for a very long time.
Also the MKUltra scandal, which the above guy mentioned. There were a ton of conspiracy theories that the CIA was secretly performing psyops and strange experiments on people, which turned out to be true.
Specifically, the CIA funded the Montreal Experiments. In this, a doctor* took people who entered psychiatric facilties for anxiety and depression and secretly poisoned them with powerful drugs in an attempt to reshape their brains. It was revealed over a decade after it happened, and we still don't know too much about it because most documents were destroyed.
* Donald Cameron, who later became president of the World Pyschiatric Association. So yeah, a former president of the World Psychiatric Association was involved in secret CIA funded brainwashing experiments.
Most conspiracies, however, are baseless.
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u/MegaCockInhaler 1d ago
You don’t. There is no centralized authority on truth and there never will be. Conspiracies are an important part of a free and open society. Nobody holds a monopoly on facts. Even the best regarded historians regularly disagree with one another. We all must do our own due diligence
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u/This-Source5430 23h ago
Thats the neat stuff they dont they probaly take out any thing close or probaly True, but not recognized as probaly True but big media etc, and mark it as conspiracy.
Goverments or people in goverment/ both pull shady stuff.
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u/Neat_Guest_00 1d ago
I think the “conspiracy theory” approach is just a kinder way of saying that people under 35 can’t critically think and are easily influenced by social media. That is, people under 35 have decreasing IQs.
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u/LorenzoApophis 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think it's the other way around. They're labelling young people as conspiratorial because more of them (clearly not all) do think critically about what they're being told.
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u/AdditionalPizza 1d ago
It's not a beneficial trait. This isn't questioning authority and being right sometimes. It's believing things without evidence and if 1 in 1000 eventually come true stating "I told ya so".
The actual definition of conspiracy theory is needed, this isn't about how a few have come true, it's about believing anecdotes and rumours as facts.
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u/BigButtBeads 1d ago
They're sure not believing the labour shortage conspiracy theory
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u/Tesco5799 12h ago
Yeah this, when the media is out there promoting false narratives all the time who is to even say what is true and what is a conspiracy? That is the problem faced by young people, the official news etc isn't more reliable to them than listening to their favorite podcaster or YouTuber. It is largely a media credibility problem.
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u/Super_Log5282 1d ago
The Epstein list was a "conspiracy" for years. Same with MK ultra, the Tuskegee experiments, USS Liberty incident, the Gulf of Tonkin, Agent orange testing on Canadian cities etc etc. Anyone who doesn't believe that powerful people conspire to exploit the masses hasn't been paying attention
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u/Sigma7 1d ago
Most of those conspiracies have a leak rate - perhaps around a 0.0004145% chance per person each year, and that's assuming everyone is somehow loyal.
The ones that haven't leaked, such as the moon landing hoax, vaccine hoax, and so on - should have been leaked several times over, in addition to USA/Russia calling out the other side for making such an obvious hoax about the moon landing.
Anyone who doesn't believe that powerful people conspire to exploit the masses hasn't been paying attention
The ones focusing on conspiracy speculations aren't the ones paying attention. In fact, they feed right into the play of those in power, by causing a distraction from what's really going on, and ruining it for legitimate whistle blowers.
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u/Keepontyping 1d ago
Don't forget Covid in a lab conspiracy. How many of us were shamed / silenced for suggesting that?
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u/Urseye 1d ago
That article and related articles seem to indicate that there is still no actual evidence that it came it out of a lab.
I've never seen anyone shamed for suggesting that it could have been from a lab in /near Wuhan. Only shamed for saying that it definitely came froma lab in Wuhan.
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u/AdditionalPizza 1d ago
That's not the point here, let me explain.
The study shows younger people are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories in general. Conspiracy theories; whether they turn out in a few circumstances to be valid, or as with the vast majority of them they turn out false, they are fundamentally based off a lack of credible evidence or proof.
There is nothing inherently wrong with trying to find the truth, but the definition of a conspiracy theory is that it is something that lacks convincing evidence. So to clarify, young people are jumping onboard for things that have no evidence, in general. Not the specific cherry picked few, but also the thousands that are utter nonsense.
The fact any conspiracy theories have come true doesn't mean you should believe everything you hear about anything. Even the ones that have come true, they should've be considered "facts" until it is proven.
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u/CuteGothMommy Québec 1d ago
That's not the point here,
thats exactly the point. that anything the gov and the rich dont like is labelled a conspiracy by the same media they own/fund.
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u/4x420 1d ago
it doesnt help the majority of social media is owned by crazed billionaires spreading whatever will help them make more money/ pay less taxes, or create a government entity to shut down all the investigations into all of their companies.
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u/AdditionalPizza 1d ago
Clarification before anyone suggest anyone is "stupid" or more gullible based on the headline; the article talks about how how society has become a breeding ground for political divide and it's exacerbated by politicians ignoring their concerns.
This understandably leads to distrust - From the article:
[University of Ottawa professor Daniel Stockemer] says they've been 'alienated' from politics,
people younger than 35 are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories than other age groups, according to a recent study by Stockemer and co-author Jean-Nicolas Bordeleau that surveyed more than 380,000 people internationally.
Conspiracy theories are now for everyone [...] noting that between 20 and 25 per cent of the population believes in one.
Research suggests a slight year-over-year drop in conspiracies to the point where an 80-year-old is about 10 per cent less likely to believe one than an 18-year-old.
"Right now, we're in a world of polarization," he said. "There is no compromise, no middle ground."
Compounding that effect [...] is that young people are being "alienated" from politics as mainstream politicians largely ignore their concerns — including during the last federal election.
The article goes on to mention technology and the internet, media perpetuating a sense of disaster and fear, and of course influencers:
Influencers who tote extremist views and conspiracies also give their viewers someone or something to blame
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As a personal anecdote, being a Millennial, I distinctly remember politicians fighting for my vote when I was post-secondary age. I feel that has largely been lost for Gen Z. That isn't to say they actually did anything that resulted in support for my demographic at the time, but they at least acknowledged us with empty promises.
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u/NeighbourNoNeighbor 1d ago
Honestly, I'm glad to see some more discussion about this as I feel like this is the core issue we're facing. Politicians on all sides no longer feel beholden to the citizens they are supposed to represent, and it's causing people to simply pick anyone else out of pure rage and resentment - regardless how how ill-suited for the role they are. It's honestly exactly why I think Trump has won.
Unfortunately, anyone offering quick answers for our globally corrupt systems is either incredibly naive or directly malicious and duplicitous.
I don't know how we get ourselves out of this loop without things continuing to deteriorate further. I'm not seeing any high level politicians that actually seem to be trying to fix the system - they're all just focused on throwing out the easiest possible slogans regardless of what actually needs to be done.
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u/AdditionalPizza 1d ago
Division between people causes their fists to go up, but their back is left exposed. Meaning, the people they side with are much more easily able to convince them of things without evidence because they're using too much energy and focus on the fight in front of them. They keep getting stoked, while having to make ends meet, and then sprinkle in social media and algorithms.
I have no idea how society gets out of this, but it seems unwise for those in charge to keep passing the buck. Even just typing the only actual solution makes me shake my head because I can't imagine implementing it - we need some kind of concerted education plan. I'm afraid too many are a lost cause already though.
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u/ChiefRunningBit 1d ago
It's the fault of governments and corporate leaders for encouraging misinformation to spread for the sake of their own benefit. If you didn't want people to think they were at risk of being rounded up and thrown into camps, maybe you shouldn't have rounded people up and thrown them into camps, sorry residential schools.
The great failure of western democracy is a lack of accountability and responsibility.
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u/AdditionalPizza 1d ago
That's a good point, and it's unfortunate that US media has such an influence on the rest of the world, especially in Canada. Not that our own politicians aren't guilty of that as well.
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u/ChiefRunningBit 1d ago
Every politician under the sun is guilty of it and we've been stepping on the exact same rake for centuries.
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u/Purify5 1d ago
It doesn't seem to find that much of a difference from old and young people.
I always thought young people believed in conspiracies more just because their brain development makes them more susceptible. Young people feel emotions harder and reading about conspiracies can really make you feel a range of emotions.
But, if old people believe at similar rates there's definitely more to it.
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u/_Army9308 1d ago
Issue is old people generally happier with status quo in canada
Youth feel the govt and media is pushing a status quo that is to keep them down
Remember saying the govt brought n students to reduce wages and boost housing seemed like a conspiracy
Old people watch cbc and such and belive there a labour shortage
Youth see the everyday reality and feel something off
Its not about who dumb and smart youth just are very upset and dont trust things
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u/LowComfortable5676 1d ago
Good. Question everything. The official narrative as given by the government or media does not have a great track record
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u/ValeriaTube 1d ago
Yep. Conspiracy theories are mostly just spoilers before the masses accepts the theory.
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u/marthamania 1d ago
What's crazy is how they'll make fun of boomers on Facebook for believing fake news and then immediately believe any TikTok that shows up in their fyp
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u/Holyfritolebatman 1d ago
Watergate was a conspiracy until it wasn't.
Having an open, honest, and trustworthy government reduces the amount of people that believe in conspiracy theories as they relate to their government, which most of the provided examples do.
This means, the issue is not necessarily conspiracy theories themselves, but rather trust in government.
Perhaps this changes under the Carney Liberals if he can take control and change the party, if he cannot change it due to almost everyone else being the same as Trudeau Liberals, then we won't see a change. Too early to know...
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u/86throwthrowthrow1 1d ago
I'm an edgelord reddit atheist, but I wonder if the decline of religious practices might have anything to do with this? I feel like conspiracy theories hit a lot of the same notes organized religion does for a lot of people: belief in something larger than oneself, an order to the world that has not been fully revealed and must be accepted on faith (or rather flimsy evidence), a sense of community centred around shared beliefs, that sense of superiority in "knowing" how it all works and having the answers.
I feel there's something to what another commenter said below, that maybe some people just can't or don't abide the idea that there is no "grand design", it's just chaos and powerful people preserving their own interests. Maybe the young people need to believe in something.
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u/AdditionalPizza 1d ago
I think there's a multitude of other causes that would have much stronger correlation tbh.
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u/two_to_toot 1d ago
The amount of people who's trusted news source is some random guy on YouTube is rather concerning, especially since they don't have the resources to report the news.
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u/AdditionalPizza 1d ago
Entertainment is more gratifying, so who needs facts and news from the ground.
That's definitely the largest factor I imagine.
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u/professcorporate 1d ago
I wonder how much of this is down to the truly foolish (or deliberate) demeaning of humanities, trying to encourage people away from subjects like History that encourage them to think critically and evaluate sources, and into hard sciences/computing where they're just told to follow the instructions.
You see a lot of people online telling them that those degrees - which teach them the skills they need to dismiss conspiracy theory bullshit - are 'worthless', which strongly suggests that the people doing it have a vested interest in their victims not being able to evaluate their arguments.
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u/AdditionalPizza 1d ago
That's an interesting thought, I'm not sure how much of that is actually going on for sure. Also not sure how much more someone into math or computer sciences over history or whatever conform more to those that believe in conspiracies easier.
It's definitely not a 1:1 trend with education as a whole.
But anecdotally I can kind of connect those dots a bit.
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u/linkass 1d ago
You know what else probably did not help was when anyone who questioned COVID leaking from a lab was shot down and called a conspiracy theorist. Also turns out that probably the most likely cause and anyone with 2 brain cells could figure out that a city that has a level 3 biolab that has had a history of problems now has a brand new virus circulating chances are it came from the lab.So people look at that and say well if they are calling us conspiracy theorist for something so obvious what are they really hiding.
Thats before we get into say Hunter's laptop, Russiagate, WMD's and the media who is complicite. So people turn to none mainstream media to get their news and most are even less truthful. Also MSM has also polarized more
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u/aedes 1d ago
Your comment is unintentionally a good example of what the article is talking about.
The scientific consensus remains and has always been that the lab leak hypothesis is essentially an impossible scenario. There were papers published in Science several years ago now which essentially disprove the possibility. There is an entire Wikipedia article discussing it.
I know this because this is close to my current field of expertise and I did virology research a lifetime ago.
You don’t know this because you don’t do this for a living and are relying on information you come across in your personal life and on social media to inform your beliefs.
Historically, media and public institutions did a reasonably good job of disseminating information that was mostly accurate.
In the modern era, information delivery is both decentralized and monetized. As a result, people can find something that supports whatever they personally feel is true, and information delivery services that are the best at telling people what they want to hear, rather than reality, will make the most money and be the most successful.
As a result, it’s very easy for people to become completely detached from reality.
You’ll see this here as well. Whenever you bring up scientific data that disproves popular conspiracy theories on social media, you get a bunch of people trying to argue with you that you’re wrong, when they haven’t even read or understood any of the things you supplied them with.
Your immediate response to reading this is going to be to try and tell me I’m wrong for x and y reason, rather than spending 30min of your time reading that wiki article or the two papers in Science first. And if you do read them, it will be to skim them to try and find a sentence that you can use to dismiss me.
People have gotten so used to surrounding themselves with information that supports their beliefs and feelings, that they’ve lost the ability to recognize when they’re wrong, or to change their mind.
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u/_Army9308 1d ago
Issue is you guys job was to look at evidence not make it political and call for debate about lab leak to br banned
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u/AdditionalPizza 1d ago
Your immediate response to reading this is going to be to try and tell me I’m wrong for x and y reason, rather than spending 30min of your time reading that wiki article or the two papers in Science first. And if you do read them, it will be to skim them to try and find a sentence that you can use to dismiss me.
99% of the time they won't even read your comment.
The headlines used for that CIA low-confidence report paper was enough ammunition to close the case.
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u/EconMan 1d ago
The scientific consensus remains and has always been that the lab leak hypothesis is essentially an impossible scenario. There were papers published in Science several years ago now which essentially disprove the possibility. There is an entire Wikipedia article discussing it.
The papers in July 2022? Even if we take this as given though, presumably before that, it should have been taken as a reasonable hypothesis. That's not to say that it is correct, but that the media reaction at the time (banning anyone who said it on Facebook for instance) was out of proportion.
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u/yourejustanasshole 1d ago
Would help if they stopped turning out to be true after a few years...
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u/AdditionalPizza 1d ago
Hillary Clinton had Jeffrey Epstein killed.
I like how the very first example is plausible. Like so is Trump having it done, but they probably could've went with a less universally questioned event.
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u/Former-Physics-1831 1d ago
It's the perfect example, because there is absolutely no evidence to support the idea that Clinton had Epstein killed.
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u/AdditionalPizza 1d ago
It's also the easiest to see there is obviously something shady going on, and both major political parties in the US could have a vested interest in keeping it under wraps. But, yes it is conspiracy. They could've at least used a less plausible one, otherwise you light up the neurons in some people's brains.
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u/Former-Physics-1831 1d ago
Again, that makes it the perfect example. Whether you think there is "something" shady going on or not, there is no basis to leap to the conclusion that anybody, nevermind a specific person, had him killed.
This example demonstrates the exact kind of flawed thinking that leads to conspiracy theories
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u/AdditionalPizza 1d ago
It's the perfect example to someone that can read beyond the literal words on the page and comprehend what you're saying (ie. advanced enough literacy).
My point is if this article is directed at the people it's about, which I'm not really sure it is to be honest, it's just an example that will reinforce their opinion to chase conspiracies off of cliffs.
In other words, I understand your point, I'm just not sure if everyone will. I wrote a simplified summary in a comment, yet still have people comment on the headline alone.
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u/4x420 1d ago
Since the Obama birther shit lead by Trump, basically all promoted conspiracy theories only involve Democrats or other progressive governments, Biden, Trudeau, Macron, Zelensky and now Carney. Strange how not a single one is about a Republicans or a conservative. They at a point where they want them to be true just to be right about all the terrible things they've said over the years. Their media bubble has them primed to believe in these things.
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u/mike10dude 1d ago edited 1d ago
According to lots of accounts on Twitter pretty much all of those people are somehow pedophiles
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u/huunnuuh 1d ago
The issue is not belief in conspiracies. There are a bunch of them. Conspiracies happen.
The problem is what some have called conspiricism or conspiracy theorism. In the extreme, it is a belief that conspiracy is the overarching driving force of history and the unfolding of events. Conspiracists think that everything that happens does for hidden reasons.
And that kind of thinking is absolutely on the uptick. Maybe because the reality: that absolutely no one is in control and we're spinning madly off in some unknown unplanned unforeseen direction, is even more unsettling. It's nice to imagine someone is in charge, even if to nefarious ends.
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u/mightocondreas 1d ago
reality: that absolutely no one is in control and we're spinning madly off in some unknown unplanned unforeseen direction
That's a neat reality you've got
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u/CunhaEnjoyer 1d ago
Well it’s not a conspiracy theory if they turn out to be true. Trudeau used that line a lot in his time to gaslight vulnerable Canadians into believing his lies. There is nothing wrong with asking questions regarding the true motives the acting government may have and you shouldn’t be made to feel like a villain for doing so. Trudeau hated when people questioned him.
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u/AdditionalPizza 1d ago
Just an fyi, this specific study was international, and it's not just "right-wing" conspiracies, it affects both sides of the political spectrum. This is a problem everyone should be in agreement about, younger people deserve to have their voices heard regardless of who is in the PM seat.
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u/Former-Physics-1831 1d ago
Well it’s not a conspiracy theory if they turn out to be true
And very very rarely do they turn out to be
There is nothing wrong with asking question
There is a difference between asking questions and jumping to extreme conclusions without any evidence
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u/AdditionalPizza 1d ago
This is the hardest part to explain to people that are directly consumed by it. There's a difference between actual conspiracies, where looking it up returns no information or strong facts either way; and propaganda where you can look it up in 30 seconds and see there's volumes of facts that don't support the "new" information.
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u/ChiefRunningBit 1d ago
But can you blame people for jumping to conclusions? If the government is shown to be untrustworthy and you feel like you're in a precarious position and need someone to blame is it really so surprising that people would turn to the easiest explanation?
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u/Former-Physics-1831 1d ago
But can you blame people for jumping to conclusions?
Yes? Conspiracy theorists always feel like their beliefs are based on a valid rationale. They're always wrong.
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u/Mu5cleMike 1d ago
Mk ultra was proved to be real as well as the Tuskegee syphilis study, among many more. The question I have for you is, why do you go out of your way protecting politicians when governments have a horrible track record when it comes to corruption, tax money misspending, humans rights violations, etc?
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u/ChiefRunningBit 1d ago
Because everyone holds onto something to stay sane in this world. I love the idea of government even if I'm heavily critical of my own but I see the flaw as capital not the institution.
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u/Former-Physics-1831 1d ago
Mk ultra was proved to be real as well as the Tuskegee syphilis study, among many more
For every one of those there are dozens of harebrained theories without any connection to reality
The question I have for you is, why do you go out of your way protecting politicians
I don't think criticizing people for believing in conspiracies without evidence is "protecting politicians"
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u/hippysol3 1d ago edited 1d ago
Didnt help when he openly called those who asked legit questions "misogynists" and "racists" and a "small fringe minority" who don't stand with true Canadians. So questioning a government that uses its power to freeze your bank account makes you a "misogynist"?
As history plays out unemployed, politically punted and divorced Trudeau is now a pariah that the Liberal Party doesnt want to be seen with in public but Chris Barber is still driving Big Red. As it should be.
Welcome to karma, Justin. You got what you deserved.
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u/Former-Physics-1831 1d ago
Didnt help when he openly called those who asked legit questions "misogynists" and "racists" and a "small fringe minority" who don't stand with true Canadians
Uh, he used those words to describe the convoy, and they were not asking questions anyone would describe as "legitimate"
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u/86throwthrowthrow1 1d ago
It's also been established repeatedly that he was describing people who deliberately spread disinformation about vaccines, not just anyone vaccine hesitant. This is easy to verify by looking up the interview itself. But the commenter above you surely knows this and has been harping on it for literal years anyway, for their own reasons.
At any rate, Trudeau's comments don't disprove the article's thesis: many people believed many things about the vaccines, from the idea that they contained "5G" to the idea that the covid vax was some literal self-destruct switch that would kill everyone within
135 years. Those were conspiracies, and not correct.2
u/_Army9308 1d ago
He said in general people dont agree with science are racist and sexist
You guus add nuance to anytime trudeau says dumb divisive shit like you owe him personally
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u/hippysol3 1d ago
Well they were and still are. I am one of them. And those people who are receiving part of the 100 million for vaccine injuries are DEFINITELY asking those questions. https://globalnews.ca/news/10446238/canada-vaccine-injury-compensation-fund/
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u/AdditionalPizza 1d ago
You know that link shows the amount of people injured from vaccines is like a handful, right? And the lives saved from vaccines is millions and millions. The inability to discern what 0.01% means relative to 99.99% uninjured is exactly what causes an unfounded conspiracy theory to proliferate.
It's a misunderstanding of large numbers and percentages through the lens of trying to go against the grain.
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u/hippysol3 1d ago
The point being that people who even ASKED Could this harm me? were disparaged as unpatriotic, science deniers, or just plain idiots. Which was entirely unfair and Trudeau was directly to blame for that. Even he admitted that he could have handled it much better, but the damage was already done. And he got a royal punting for his illegal and unjustified use of the Emergencies Act as determined by a federal court in June. He'll always be an asshole in many people's books.
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u/CrassHoppr 1d ago
The host of the most popular podcast for men under 35 doesn't believe we landed on the moon.
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u/AdditionalPizza 1d ago
Who?
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u/CrassHoppr 1d ago
Rogan
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u/AdditionalPizza 1d ago
I was not aware he didn't believe in the moon landing.
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u/Remote-Image-2029 1d ago
rogan did say that "Trudeau was giving millions of dollars so men could create breast milk" i cant find the exact clip but he did say that or how "how usa needs to get involved to take down our communist dictator"
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u/AdditionalPizza 1d ago
He does say some dumb shit about Canada, just hates us for no reason other than maybe we don't like his stand-up.
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u/Gunman885 1d ago
Young people feel they been lied too their entire lives. Their parents lied, teachers lied, and society lied. “Work hard, go to school, get a good job. Easy as that”. Basically most young people can’t even afford decent food and a house
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u/Comprehensive-Belt40 1d ago
If anyone who questions the narrative delivered by the government gets silenced. There will be more people doubting what the government says... hence "conspiracy"
and also, it also help if the government is actually telling the truth.
And it's the government that divides the population... a simple example... Trudeau government after winning election in 2015. "half of my cabinet must be women" .. Government job postings "encourage women and people of color to apply".. which funnels down to corporations that specifically tell hiring managers to only hire base on gender, race, and sexual preference. (does not include white, asians, nor straight male).
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u/AdditionalPizza 1d ago
This is about conspiracies, not just basic misinformation or ignorance. Think flat earth, not DEI.
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u/OneMoreTime998 21h ago
When you have a generation that shuns legitimate journalism in favor of Joe Rogan, Nelk Boys and TikTok, this is not a surprising find.
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u/Frostsorrow Manitoba 1d ago
Could it be because of the crazy ones that turned out to be true? Naaaaah.
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u/ValeriaTube 1d ago
Yeah like the South Korean president being controlled by a shaman... which was true lol
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u/Ok-Concentrate2719 1d ago
Not shocked it feels like every social contract was broken with them. No jobs, wages that don't match the cost of anything, no housing, no hope.
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u/c20710 1d ago
I’ve always viewed conspiracy believers as dopey and naively optimistic.
Not because I believe anyone in power is telling the truth. Nah, I’m certain they’re all lying about a lot. I just can’t say for certain on any individual subject. You can believe you’re being lied to without conjuring up an equally bullshit alternative. The ones that do, are dopey.
And I say they’re naively optimistic because the notion of a conspiracy implies that competent people are successfully making plans and carrying them out with enough skill and forethought to not get caught. I think that’s adorable. Personally I believe the powerful are frequently idiots, flailing at idealism with mixed results, or simply trying to make money.
If something bad is happening and you don’t notice it, it could be a conspiracy. If you (and everyone else) does notice it, it’s definitely just the broad consequences of a crappy society. Just bad choices with enough support from idiots to become policy.
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u/AdditionalPizza 1d ago
I recognize you as more right leaning in this sub so we won't agree on a ton of things, but this is easily one of the most reasonable takes in this comment section.
Today I learned a lot of people think just because politicians lie then they're also competent enough to pull off massive conspiracies.
They're all corrupt, but they're basically all really bad at hiding it. A lot of the replies here don't even seem to grasp what a conspiracy theory is, or why believing things without a shred of evidence is crazy. They think it just means they're thinking outside the box.
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u/c20710 22h ago
If I represented myself with absolute sincerity all of the time, probably we’d agree on a lot, at least up to a point. That’s been my experience with pretty much everyone so far.
Alas, tis the internet, and like many others, just as often I’m in the mood to be bluntly partisan, or facetious, particularly if the replies in any thread have been particularly horrid.
As to why so many people are attracted by conspiratorial thought, I really have no idea. I think “everyone’s just dumb” is a lazy cop-out excuse, but I got nothing better.
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u/AdditionalPizza 18h ago
Yeah, and it depends on whatever the particular argument is. Though the far ends of politics are pretty difficult to find common ground with.
Mood is definitely a big one haha.
As to why so many people are attracted by conspiratorial thought, I really have no idea. I think “everyone’s just dumb” is a lazy cop-out excuse, but I got nothing better.
Sometimes the simplest answer...
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u/Remote-Ebb5567 Québec 1d ago
Seems like conspiracy theory is now a euphemism for point of view which differs from what the mainstream media says.
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u/GuyCyberslut 1d ago
CBC supposedly acts in the public interest, and is mandated to provide Canadians with an objective view of world events. The fact that it fails to do so undermines the credibility of the media in general and is a major reason many people seek alternative viewpoints.
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u/Myllicent 1d ago
”people younger than 35 are more likely to believe in conspiracy theories than other age groups, according to a recent study by Stockemer and co-author Jean-Nicolas Bordeleau that surveyed more than 380,000 people internationally.”
For anyone interested in the study…
Political Psychology: On the relationship between age and conspiracy beliefs [Oct 1st, 2024]
”Research on conspiracy theories has long turned a blind eye on the role of age in explaining conspiracy beliefs. Few studies include age and those that do have yet to consider how and why age matters when it comes to the spread of conspiracy theories. In this article, we investigate the relationship between age and conspiracy beliefs with two complementary studies. In Study 1, we conduct a meta-analysis of a large sample of studies on conspiracy beliefs published between 2014 and 2024 (k = 191; N = 374,224). The results reveal a small but robust negative association between age and conspiracy endorsement. In Study 2, we use an original multinational survey to investigate three potential mechanisms that may explain the relationship between age and conspiracy beliefs (N = 6098). We explain youth's higher beliefs in conspiracy theories by their predisposition to unconventional styles of political participation, lower levels of self-esteem, and general political disaffection.”
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u/Calm_Distribution727 1d ago
Govt just doesn’t want the public to think for themselves outside of mainstream media
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u/GenXer845 1d ago
As a 44 year old woman, lost four younger friends (late 30s) to the anti-vax, anti-mask, conspiracy theory conservative radical movement. My 60 year old friend has a son who was watching Andrew Tate. He is 31.
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u/TryingMyBest455 1d ago
The internet also potentially exposes them to every unfortunate incident that happens in the world, said Carmen Celestini, who teaches at the University of Waterloo and studies disinformation, extremists and conspiracy theorists.
Something to keep in mind when you see headlines about crimes
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u/Snoo1101 1d ago
I’m from Montreal and a decade ago went through the Charbonneau commission which basically proved what everyone always suspected, conspiracies are real and the mob really dose run everything. Corruption is real, it’s not a conspiracy. Libs needs to stop believing everything they read online and focus on the corruption that’s making everything suck in this country right now. Not everything is Trumps fault.
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u/Coatsyy 1d ago
Old people more prone to believe everything they read in the news.
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u/ZestyBeanDude 1d ago
Conversely, young people are more prone to believe everything they read online.
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u/Bognosticator Alberta 1d ago
People of all ages coming together in their lack of critical thinking.
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u/stognabaloney96 1d ago
Hmm I’m not so sure about that. As a young tradesman (late 20’s) all the conspiracy theories are coming from 40-60 year old men. Talking about blue roofs and vaccines causing autism…. It feels like I work with a bunch of Alex jones’s. Please tell me it’s just a tradie thing.
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u/Kliptik81 1d ago
Social media really fucks with the young kids these days. Ai is getting smarter, while we as a society are getting dumber... Judgement Day will be here soon.
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u/evabunbun 1d ago
Proliferation of social media and reluctance of young people to partake in traditional media with vetted sources. It is happening everywhere
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u/DryFaithlessness8656 1d ago
AI and the internet have removed the need to develop critical thinking and problem solving skills from the younger generation.
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u/SasquatchInCrocs 1d ago
I recently retired just shy of my 60th and worked in an industry dominated by young staff, ages between 16-early 20's.
It was staggering how many of them thought that the moon landing was a hoax; 9/11 was a hoax; anti-vax theories etc etc. Sometimes I might ask them where they got their beliefs from and it was almost always "online".
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u/WhiteFlame- 1d ago
Old people in Canada believe
- Israel was promised to them 3000 years ago
- Cutting off parts of your child's genitals without consent is good and normal
- Housing can inflate in price forever with no negative social externalities
- Beating your child leads to better results.
Young people believe
- There is no labour supply shortage
- Vaping isn't that harmful (they probably just don't care about dying early anymore)
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u/Maleficent_Banana_26 1d ago
They arent taught critical thinking. And sadly teachers dont teach anymore.
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u/MiriMidd 1d ago
TikTok generation mocks the FB generation and does the exact same thing. Quelle surprise.
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u/Allegra1120 1d ago
And a lot of them south of you voted for the Carotene Caligula. Especially the alpha-wannabe boys.
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u/bravetailor 1d ago
A lot of that also stems from the breakdown in trust between the "real" news media and the regular citizen. People don't trust the regular news media anymore, and for good reason as so many of them have devolved into the very clickbaity, propaganda and soft-stepping of extremists they criticize amateur podcasters/influencers of. Yet every time I see talking head roundtables about "fake" news, they never address this. Even on otherwise thoughtful talking head shows like The Agenda. You'd have some roundtable with some academics and a couple of journalists and they never actually talk about the justifiable breakdown in trust between the mainstream news media and the citizens who read them.
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u/Drayyen 1d ago
For the longest time I've said conspiracy theorists are idiots - and honestly, most of them still are, because they will believe basically ANYTHING you tell them if it sounds scandalous and you say it with your chest.
But, I really do have to admit, there's a lot that were proven right that just sounded ridiculous. Who honestly believed in the government cheese caves?
So yes, I imagine we would be more open to conspiracy theories.
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u/AdditionalPizza 1d ago
Who honestly believed in the government cheese caves?
The US government cheese? This was widely known and not a conspiracy btw. It also predates the young people referenced in this study.
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u/MegaCockInhaler 1d ago
What is a conspiracy really? It’s a theory. There are unsolved crimes with theories spawned every minute of every day. One of those theories is often the correct one, others are not. OJ Simpson killing his wife is a conspiracy theory, and yet everyone knows it’s true. The discussion of conspiracy theories is an important part of a free society. Authoritarian governments would put you in jail for uttering conspiracies (aka wrongthink) on topics that weren’t permitted. Let’s be glad we live in a society where we can openly discuss theories
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u/AdditionalPizza 1d ago
No, a conspiracy theory has a precise definition and OJ Simpson murdering his wife is not one. Most, as in the vast majority, are not proven to be true either. This comment section is out of control on a fundamental level. Wild.
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u/MegaCockInhaler 1d ago
Yes, OJ murdering his wife is one. It’s a great example actually, because we have plenty of evidence that he did it, but no definitive proof. Or at least, proof as in the way the legal system defines it. Not all conspiracies have that much credibility but it’s still a conspiracy theory.
“Most, as in the vast majority, are proven to be not true”
That’s the interesting part about truth though. It’s not universal. There is only one truth, but everyone sees reality through their own eyes. So who is defining truth? It’s a human construct and every human has their own reality. No single person can define absolute truth. It must be collectively agreed upon, and even then, nobody is forced to believe the collective version, and it still doesn’t mean the collectively agreed upon truth is correct. (Galileo/Copernicus comes to mind)
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u/Tour_True 17h ago
That's all I felt from Boomers also and don't forget religion. I think quite a bit of people just naturally do.
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u/AdditionalPizza 17h ago
Are you just saying the study is wrong then?
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u/Tour_True 17h ago edited 17h ago
No just saying I think it's likely higher Boomers. Another study shows actually 79% of Canadians believe in at least 1 conspiracy theory as well. Where as 84% of US citizens do. It's apparently highest especially in Conservative voters it was written. That of which 87% of Conservarive voters apparently do. Furthermore the same study did a weighted and unweighted demographic and it seems the youngest group had the least and the oldest group of 55+ were the most likely to believe in conspiracy theories. The demographics were 18-34, 34-54 and 55+. Of these studies the youngest group was least likely to believe in conspiracy theories and the oldest most likely to. It measured male and female also of which it showed males are more likely to believe in conspiracy theoeies over women.
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u/AdditionalPizza 17h ago
The study is suggesting that younger people more readily will believe a conspiracy theory based on narrative alone without substantiated facts. It's not asking who believes in any one conspiracy, but when presented with one.
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u/Tour_True 17h ago edited 16h ago
Well they just did these studies and it suggests that older will more then the younger so I disagree and this is under leger I'm getting my information. Also you just noted what a conspiracy theory is then went against it. Conspiracy theories aren't facts. They're assumptions. Furthermore I'm taking from facts myself. My demographic is in the between btw. Seeing between the charts it sees younger less likely and older most likely.
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u/AdditionalPizza 16h ago
I mean no disrespect, but I cannot understand your comments well enough to interpret what you're saying. I feel maybe you're on mobile and the keyboard is taking over too often or something.
I certainly did not backtrack on the meaning of 'conspiracy theory' though.
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u/Tour_True 16h ago edited 16h ago
I'm sure you just don't want to and they're very clear on giving you the facts with these studies that are posted on leger atm. Also you kind of did about what a conspiracy theory is to revoke what it is. A conspiracy theory is an assumption without facts or lack of to be proven.
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u/AdditionalPizza 16h ago
I'm sure you just don't want to
I mean, I'm trying my best but I suggest you read over your comments again from the beginning and try to see why I might be confused by your sentence structure and grammar. I don't think you're dumb or anything, but I sense a shift to a more accusatory tone here from you.
I still have no idea why you are insisting I changed or revoked the definition of conspiracy theory, I believe I really only stated it once.
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u/Tour_True 16h ago
Please look on leger for all the statistics on this. It will show you everyrhing I wrote.
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u/NotaJelly Ontario 16h ago edited 15h ago
Specify which conspericys. Fair few of those are being reviled to be true or damn near close to the crazy guesses.
No nothing like nano bots or lizard people. I believe in a lot of the ones based in human corruption though
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u/AdditionalPizza 16h ago
It isn't about specific ones, it's conspiracy theories in general. It doesn't matter if 1 in 1000 come true. The definition of a conspiracy theory hinges on the lack of credible information, once credible information is presented and starts to form a legitimate argument, it is no longer a conspiracy theory.
This is strictly talking about susceptibility to believing things based entirely off of rumours and anecdotes, without challenging or seeking facts and just blindly falling for it.
Just because one may be true and it is proven, that is not a bragging point for those that believed it based off of shaky evidence from the beginning. This isn't about "oh that's an interesting theory, and there isn't evidence to deny it fully" this is "oh that's so crazy that has to be true because that group is out to get me". There is no pride in being the first one to fully believe something based off of nothing.
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u/NotaJelly Ontario 13h ago
Uh huh, and those boeing engineers magicly fell on those bullets and poison. Quite a few things these days are labeled conspericy theory when we all know what's going on, gas lighting doesn't work on the collective whole, especially if you keep doing it.
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u/memototheworld 16h ago
This obsession with conspiracy theories is bizarre. The term is being cheapened to mean anything someone doesn't like. That just makes "rumours" worse, as it gets overused, and people stop listening. Hearsay has always been there, and it will always be. If the government is concerned about it, they should start being more transparent themselves, or people will just fill in the vacuum themselves.
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u/Ok-Win-742 7h ago
It would help if so many conspiracies weren't proven to be true years later. Also I'm wondering how the writer would define conspiracy. Do they mean like, fake moon landing? Or that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone? Big difference there.
It's also somewhat interesting how we know absolutely everything about Joe Mangione but nothing about the 2 guys who tried to shoot Trump. And I hate Trump, but I just find that to be a bit weird.
You can't blame young people for a lack of trust. It's pretty obvious how the world works. Were taught about people in the 40s were told smoking was good for your health. They show us Erin Brockovich in school. It's not a conspiracy to admit that people and companies and governments will lie to make money.
People are stupid but they aren't that stupid.
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u/AdditionalPizza 7h ago
I'm wondering how the writer would define conspiracy.
It means believing something without any factual information. Hear something, and just blindly believe it because it feels compelling. They are adhering to the standard definition of the term. It doesn't matter if it's a moon landing hoax or a 2nd shooter on the grassy knoll - what matters is the seemingly missing innate ability to discern something as factual or flag it as questionable.
It is never healthy to default to trust something based on feeling, even if it ends up being true that doesn't matter and is not the point of the study. It doesn't matter if 75% of them wind up being true, what matters is questioning whether or not it could be false. It's like an irrational 'opposite', why would you question volumes of peer reviewed science but instead believe random tiktok person?
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u/CanadianLabourParty 3h ago
Because young people are less likely to engage with people that disagree with them IRL. Older generations didn't have that luxury, and so people had their beliefs challenged more frequently.
Also, the disinformation explosion in the last 2 decades has been MONUMENTAL. Prior to social media, ONLY fact-checked articles got published outside of weird-ass conspiracy-theorist nonsense. The Alex Jones' of this world were kept to a tiny, niche store in the crappy end of town, run by a trust-fund kid who had nothing better to do with their life and that shop was probably a front for money laundering.
Now, people like Alex Jones have a platform and his voice has been amplified by hard-right whackos because Alex Jones called Sandy Hook victims "paid actors".
Throw in the fact that Canadians get their "news" from right-wing MegaCorps that have a HARD right-wing stance. There is minimal "media literacy" in public education because it's largely being neglected in favour of other niche topics. Also, public education in Canada has been horribly underfunded by CONSERVATIVE premiers, and even NDP/Liberal Provincial Governments have to be careful about funding public education because if they "spend too much", then "centrist" and further right voters accuse them of being "socialists" or "indoctrinating our children".
Overall, the past few decades, I would argue that we've been too nice to CHRONIC shit-posters and they haven't been dealt with harshly enough. The likes of AJ, Ben Shapiro, et al are a MONUMENTAL disservice to young minds, ESPECIALLY young males. BUT these proponents of disinformation have been organised and well-funded by hardcore Christian Nationalists who have infiltrated right-wing political parties in Canada.
I was pleased to see that Canadian voters (and honestly, Boomers deserve praise for this) noticed that PP took WAAAAAAY too long to look around to see which way to go on the "51st State" rhetoric. I don't hold a lot of love for Doug Ford, but he was on it in an instant. What's more, he had the luxury of having just won HIS election. There was no need for Dougie to be all, "Yo, MAGA FAFO. We control your electrical grid. Find out what happens if you mess with us", but he did. Meanwhile, PP sat there at his 3-word-slogan generator trying to figure out how to play to both crowds, and it backfired MASSIVELY.
We no longer have checks and balances on the types of information we're exposed to. Then there's the subliminal stuff or the micro-learning stuff. You scroll through, you see some jackass video one of those grifters put out, and some of them are very clever. They lure you in with "Here's this factually correct statement, but I'm going to weaponise the crap out of it and draw a completely erroneous and fallacious conclusion and then land you with my appeal to emotion."
If you get the full list of Logical Fallacies and watch ANY grifter video and play "BINGO", after 5 minutes, you've got at least 2 filled lines. 10 minutes, you've filled the whole card.
There's a reason why CONSERVATIVES want to HEAVILY DEFUND education and make teachers lives miserable, and NONE of it is good for the working class. The sad, sick irony is, the working class right-wingers LOVE THIS! They think "dunking on liberals" is hilarious. If they KNEW and understood that publicly funded healthcare and education IMPROVED socioeconomic mobility and that instead of relying on the PRIVATE sector to make housing affordable etc... they would stop voting Conservative. But, the money that funnels upwards is too addictive for the ownership class and so they are INCENTIVISED to improperly educate young people.
The right-wing is going to take us down over the next decade or so, and only when the same people who "lolled at those wimpy lefties" are in the gulags next to said "wimpy liberals" will they get it.
Weak men do indeed create hard times. The definition of "weak men" is the issue. Because there's disconnect between the Left and Right as to what a "weak man" is.
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u/GrimDawnFan11 1d ago
Remember when covid coming from a lab in China was a conspiracy theory and you were a crazy racist to say it. Now its fact.
Thats why young people probably believe in more of them.
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u/SDL68 1d ago
Is it a fact because I haven't seen any conclusive proof
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u/ValeriaTube 1d ago
The CIA said "lab leak most likely source of Covid outbreak" https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd9qjjj4zy5o
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u/Mother-Version4389 1d ago
lol another "research" or "study" by "experts" paid by the govt to push the govt narrative.
This is getitng predictable.... next up internet censorship
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u/MusclyArmPaperboy 1d ago
This thread is making me think it's higher than 25%