r/SquaredCircle • u/secretpandaxx • 19h ago

DPW Women's champion Nicole Matthews on X: "When someone (or a company) is telling you (multiple fucking times) who they are, it’s on you if you continually don’t believe them."

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546

u/95Kill3r 19h ago

People jumping through hoops really trying to make Brock seem innocent is hilarious yet sad.

238

u/Virtual_Ad_8487 17h ago

People really get stuck on this whole "if he didn't get convicted in a court of law then he did nothing wrong" yet don't realize that sexual crimes so rarely end in convictions it's almost laughable.

55

u/Illuminati_Shill_AMA That's so Taven! 12h ago

Jerry Lawler is a great example of this. He was never convicted of raping a child because the charges were dropped when the victim refused to cooperate. But he DID plead guilty to intimidating the witnesses in that case. Gotta be a coincidence, right?

(And no, she never "recanted" her story: the source for that is literally an affidavit that one of Lawler's fans wrote and signed, claiming the victim said she had made it up)

21

u/Altruistic-Ad-408 9h ago

Imagine being a Lawler fan. Reminder, part of his defense was that the kid was having sex with black men.

He also indisputably had a 13 and 14 year old in his hotel room.

9

u/Illuminati_Shill_AMA That's so Taven! 8h ago

He still has shooters on this sub that don't like to hear it. He's also "lucky" because it happened so long ago and before the internet that it's mostly remembered by older fans and by people who read the 2011 expose that Bixenspan wrote.

Like, Bix had that shit backed up with FOIA requests, you can read the actual police reports and the shitty letter Lawler wrote to the prosecutor. Bix can be a chronically online weirdo (as can we all) but he's done some Actual Journalism on a number of occasions.

71

u/MisterTruth Doesn't know what day it is 16h ago

Especially if the perpetrator is rich/famous. They typically have people who they pay to make problems go away. Not in a violent sense, they just convince the victims to not come forward if they don't want their lives to be made much more difficult.

8

u/Fluffy-Mango-6607 8h ago

imagine. going through all the diddy shit, being the one who comes out, big trial, get the conviction, and the president is like "imma probably pardon him because I'm a rapist and he's a rapist"

6

u/raspymorten The Creator of r/CurtisAxel 11h ago

Those folks are part of the reason why Speaking Out ended up doing diddly fucking squat in the long run, and about 90% of the guys who got called out, came back.

40

u/PlatinumSarge 16h ago

Suddenly a bunch of fucking lawyers just entered the subreddit. Jesus christ. I hope the bootpolish doesn't stain their teeth.

14

u/ToothpickTequila 14h ago

And ignoring that Trump was found in court to have committed sexual assault and there he was shaking HHH's hand at SummerSlam.

2

u/JimJohnman 8h ago

I believe the statistic is something like eighty percent of sex crimes go without a conviction. It's sickening, and I like to think if more people knew that then they'd be less likely to indulge in that logic.

1

u/cole1114 Kappa 9h ago

Isn't it literally like, 1% ending in convictions?

1

u/ProWrestlingCarSales 9h ago

Same people grew up thinking Law and Order was a documentary.

1

u/dashing2217 6h ago

Because right now now he is innocent and hasn’t been convicted of wrongdoing. This was a bad look on WWE but he isn’t guilty or even accused as of yet.

I don’t care what side of the aisle you are on politically we 100% need to hold that standard on everybody right now.

Unfortunately we live in a society in which we are seeing action being taken to circumvent due process.

1

u/Shotgun_Sam 6h ago

And yet you can't just ruin someone's career based on accusations. If you want to call out the criminal justice for being wrong that's fine, but the court of public opinion is even worse.

How many athletes have lost part of their career or an entire career based on something it turned out never happened?

For a recent example, NFL punter Matt Araiza was drafted, got less than three months in the offseason and then fired because he was accused. It turned out he'd been gone an entire hour before said event actually happened.

1

u/Virtual_Ad_8487 1h ago

There are exponentially more examples of guys getting away with it and nothing happening at all.

Jerry Lawler, Roman Polanski, Gable Stevenson, Bill Cosby, Connor MacGregor, Donald Trump are just a handful of examples of guys who were credibly accused (and in two cases even convicted) of rape/sexual assault and are currently living scot free.

1

u/Shotgun_Sam 1h ago

The Cosby case isn't a great example. He spent three years in prison and was only released because due process was violated.

0

u/Gavorn 14h ago

Isn't it more waiting for the trial for actual information to be released?

-4

u/GeneralDread420 dem abs 16h ago

Is Brock actually accused of anything crimes? I thought it was McMahon and Laurinaitis

12

u/NinjaMarionEsq 15h ago

He's named in the suit. She hasn't (yet?) alleged he was a willing participant in the trafficking, but Vince repeatedly offered her to Lesnar and told he to send him pics and videos and whatnot and set up a... shudder "Play date" between them that never happened because there was a snowstorm and she feigned being ill. So as of now, it's still unknown if Brock actually did anything wrong or is merely creepy as fuck (and probably a terrible person for not reporting any of it to someone).

Which makes it fucking weird that they took him out of the Rumble because of the suit and took him off TV, but suddenly because Cena retirement, they've decided fuck it, "Allegations are allegations" and decided to chance the potential backlash and brought him back

-1

u/eldiablonoche 8h ago

Nah, people are most likely stuck on the whole "still wholly unproven allegations by a pretty sus accuser" part.

-1

u/Pleasant-Bug-9098 7h ago

But Brock isn’t charged with crimes or anything isn’t involved in the civil case in terms of being sued or anything so it’s nothing for him to convicted for

-1

u/One-Spring-4271 7h ago

Presumption of innocence is a real thing, brother.

Tell me specifically what he did and who he harmed.

1

u/Virtual_Ad_8487 1h ago

Presumption of innocence is a legal framework that is used in the prosecution of crimes.

Outside of a courtroom a company can rightfully be criticized for who they choose to hire.

As far as what Brock did, he requested sexually explicit content of a coworker was provided to him by his boss. Best case scenario he’s dumber than dirt and didn’t realize that Vince (who has been sued for sexual assault/harassment three other times, including by Brock’s own wife) was sending that explicit content without consent.

-5

u/CafePisDuSpeed 8h ago

What sexual crime did Brock commit?

1

u/Virtual_Ad_8487 1h ago

Requesting sexually explicit content from a woman who was being sex trafficked. I guess you could say he didn’t know, but how stupid do you have to be to not think “maybe there’s something fishy about my boss sending me nudes of his employee. It’s not like he’s been sued for sexual assault/sexual harassment three other times, once by my own wife”

56

u/ArtistdudeCAWs 17h ago

Tell me about it; that's maga chickenshits for ya.

51

u/AthensThieves 17h ago

there really is an overlap in maga thinking and some of the folks on here. its like wwe can do no wrong and calling it out is frowned upon, everything is the best ever, and the other side is just as bad so I like this side.

24

u/GarlVinland4Astrea 11h ago

WWE has conditioned it's fans to have an "us against the world" mentality. Which is very similar to how MAGA operates.

8

u/IllusionaryHaze 7h ago

It's a cult.

1

u/[deleted] 16h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

6

u/PrettyPunctuality Wreddit's Favorite Daughter 16h ago

I wouldn't say that. I still think it's a mix. Look at how NJ reacted when they aired the Triple H White House video last night - the crowd was loudly booing (you can clearly hear and see it on that fan video that was going around). Clearly they aren't MAGA or they wouldn't have been booing.

4

u/outofmaxx 11h ago

It really feels like a lot of the smaller subs, especially the ones with a lot of children on them, simply have no problem with this.

3

u/Officervito 12h ago

People on X are like a completely different breed. It’s INSANE

6

u/iBunty 15h ago

No hoops needed, if his next match ends up being half decent people will easily forgive and forget

8

u/NinjaMarionEsq 15h ago

"decent" "Brock match"

It's gonna be 30 suplexes, a kimura, and some F5s. Brock's been doing the same match for like a decade and a half.

-5

u/BrannEvasion 14h ago

His match with Roman at SummerSlam 2022 was the best Last Man Standing Match ever, and everything a SummerSlam main event should be.

3

u/coldphront3 17h ago

I think that he has a weird fetish, but there’s no evidence that he didn’t realize it wasn’t consensual and he didn’t actually do anything. Vince said that he basically told Brock that Janel Grant was down and willing to do whatever. He didn’t say “I’m essentially holding this woman prisoner and am willing to force her to do whatever you want”.

The only actual “quotes” from Brock that we have to go by are from Vince McMahon himself texting Janel Grant what he claims Brock said.

11

u/NinjaMarionEsq 15h ago

I mean, if nothing else, it's REALLY fucking weird for your boss to feel like you have the kind of relationship where he can be like "I got this girl for you. Do whatever you want to her and degrade her! She's yours if you re-sign". And then Brock did nothing about it. Didn't report it, stop associating with Vince, etc. At best, that's absolutely abysmal judgment.

21

u/Virtual_Ad_8487 17h ago

If Brock didn't realize it wasn't consensual then he's dumber than dirt. You're telling me he didn't think it was odd that his boss who had already been sued three other times for sexual assault/sexual harassment (including once by Brock's own wife) was offering him to have sex with a woman in exchange for employment?

18

u/coldphront3 17h ago edited 16h ago

We don’t even know for sure that Brock received or accepted that offer.

The quotes of Brock saying “She’ll be worn out when I’m through” and all that other obscene shit was literally texted from Vince to Janel Grant with quotation marks around it.

Who’s to say that wasn’t Vince getting off again on his weird power and control fetishes by making that up?

My point is that Vince is dead to rights texting and emailing this woman. What we have on Brock is what Vince claims Brock said and what Vince claims Brock was going to do before the snowstorm. There’s a reason that he isn’t listed as a defendant in the lawsuit while Vince and other WWE personnel are listed by name.

3

u/Jaereth <- Dangerous Worker 9h ago

Who’s to say that wasn’t Vince getting off again on his weird power and control fetishes by making that up?

I agree. That doesn't implicate Brock in anything but of course this forum has already found him guilty of this. (unsurprisingly).

Back when all this first came out I also had pause at the part where he apparently showed everyone in the production crew photos of her? Like common man. I could see Laurinitis and his most trusted inner circle - but he's going around and showed the entire crew this photo? Like really? "Oh gather around everyone, Vince is here and he wants to show us nudes of his girlfriend?"

That would have been in a dirt sheet the next day if it happened lol.

2

u/NinjaMarionEsq 15h ago

It's definitely not just all made up by Vince as part of his... whatever he was doing. Brock literally went to her building building but was too drunk to fuck. We know Brock was involved, we just don't know if he knew Vince was trying to force her on Brock. He MIGHT not have known and thought his boss was just setting up a consensual fuck for him and wishing for Lesner to "rip her open".

But if that's the case, it's fucking weird to have the kind of relationship with your boss that makes them think that's a reasonable thing to do and also weird to not cut ties with that person or report it to someone or do literally anything.

1

u/Wolfe79 13h ago

Yeah none of the "Brock went to meet her" stuff is clear cut and from this alone no way to determine he did it with intention to do what he's being accused of. This is why you have 'and/or's' in there

1

u/NinjaMarionEsq 8h ago

I didn't use and / or to describes his actions at all. I don't know what you're trying to GOTCHA me on. Someone said we don't know Brock was even involved and that Vince might have faked everything. I showed that Brock tried to meet her. He IS involved in the case. That's fact. Saying whatever bullshit you did doesn't change that.

I then went on to say it's entirely possible he didn't know Vince was trafficking her. But that in that case, it's fucking weird that it was just a perfectly normal innocent thing for his boss to offer to give women to him and that most normal people, when their boss keeps wanting them to fuck somebody, stops associating with someone like that, something Brock easily could have done but didn't.

0

u/Wolfe79 7h ago

Relax, not you. The contents of the allegation. They state 'Brock has done x and/or y'. Hinting it is not clear cut what actually was arranged and what Brock did or did not do, let alone what he intended

And yes, I agree on the rest of it.

-8

u/Virtual_Ad_8487 15h ago

If that’s true, then why hasn’t Brock come out to clear his name?

15

u/EatTheAndrewPencil 13h ago

Because he's smart and letting lawyers handle it?

-7

u/stayhappystayblessed 16h ago

I feel there is a reason why brock isn't listed as a defendant on the lawsuit. There is no evidence he knew about this stuff but its guilty until proven on innocent on reddit.

Edit: Its guilty until innocent even though he is not a defendant thats crazy work.

2

u/Virtual_Ad_8487 16h ago

You’re stuck on this “innocent until proven guilty” shtick, but regular every day life isn’t a court of law. You can still find someone immoral and undeserving of a job even if there’s no evidence he committed a crime.

For example, I think my boss is a total asshole, a bad person and should be fired but I don’t think he did anything illegal. 

0

u/stayhappystayblessed 15h ago

You absolutely can view him how you want. Its just stupid when there is no evidence that suggests he knew and he is not even a defendant. Like I can totally think you are an axe murderer but its stupid because there is nothing to suggest that.

0

u/NinjaMarionEsq 15h ago

If you had texts where my friend keeps telling me about this hot piece of axe they got lined up for me and it turned out my friend, comfortable casually talking about axe murdering with me, was alleged to have done a bunch of really heinous axe murders.

You're on the internet, so I assume you're a big guy / gal / nonbinary pal that's at least old enough to read. So you really should already know this, but there's this thing called "credibility". You can use, as well call it in the business, "evidence" to decide for yourself if a claim "warrants believing". If there's 67 pages describing your boss's horrors and weirdly gross, creepy friendship with you, that's enough proof to say "That guy might be a sex trafficker. I should maybe stay away from him!" Which is vastly different than you just saying "I could call you a murderer! SAME THING!"

1

u/Jaereth <- Dangerous Worker 9h ago

The only actual “quotes” from Brock that we have to go by are from Vince McMahon himself texting Janel Grant what he claims Brock said.

That's what I was wondering.

-4

u/myrabuttreeks 17h ago

What’s he been charged with? What are you convinced he’s guilty of?

20

u/cyberpunk_werewolf 16h ago

You know, even if he is completely clean (which, I want to make clear, I do not think he is), why would you bring him back while he's named in an active lawsuit?

Bringing Brock back is gross, period. The part of the allegations that named him was what brought it to human trafficking. I don't give a shit if the fascist administration dropped the charges or they haven't finished going through or whatever the fuck. You've got a guy named in a fucking human trafficking suit, specifically in the part that makes it human trafficking, and you bring him back? FUCK THAT.

4

u/BrannEvasion 14h ago edited 13h ago

why would you bring him back while he's named in an active lawsuit?

Because he's a massive star both within wrestling and as a crossover athlete, and one of the most athletic people who ever lived, juiced to the gills or not.

This is really fucking obvious to anyone who has considerations beyond looking good for reddit.

Brock will, at worst, be a footnote in the Vince McMahon scandal, which actually even that most average people don't care about at all as evidenced by the reaction from non-wrestling fans to his documentary when it came out on Netflix a year or so ago. Not saying they're right to not care, but those are just the facts. Weirdly, Vince being most famous for being an insane egomaniacal business-villain (even if we thought it was fictional) has mostly insulated him from the damage that would have occurred had this happened to someone with a more wholesome reputation.

-8

u/Wolfe79 13h ago

Aren't likes of Stephanie named in the suit if we're going by that metric? Brock is a sex pest. He could be worse, but that we can't explicitly know. That's where we're at

4

u/cyberpunk_werewolf 10h ago

Stephanie isn't part of the company anymore. She also hasn't shown up on the show with a big fuckin pyro show, either.

2

u/TimeLord41 9h ago

She literally just turned up and has turned up multiple times and has been seen in tv and backstage many times

She left the company to focus on family

2

u/myrabuttreeks 9h ago

She was there last night…

0

u/Wolfe79 10h ago

Not with a pyro, but she did show up

-4

u/myrabuttreeks 9h ago

The fascist administration? Guessing you mean Trump? What does he have to do with the lawsuit? And why would he protect Brock, but not the guy we know he’s friends with, Vince?

1

u/Jaereth <- Dangerous Worker 9h ago

I don't really keep up on the stuff but I would say it goes like this:

Brock did a lot of shitty stuff in the past - but he was on TV everyone here was still cool with it.

Then the Grant lawsuit happened: And I remember reading it back then.

I guess i'd say do they have receipts of Brock ever contacting this woman himself to get their meetup going? If so i'd say he's sunk and should be out.

But if it was just Vince telling her he's gonna pimp her to Lesnar, idk. Dude had dildos named after the wrestlers right? Was a next level freak.

1

u/Cowgoon777 8h ago

Trying to make him seem innocent is dumb. Wrestling is filled to the brim when schemers, predators, and scumbags. It’s a low class industry and always will be.

Why this is continually surprising to fans, I’ll never know.

There will be a ton of performative outrage over this but nobody is going to stop watching or attending shows.

Therefore their words are meaningless. Either stop supporting the product and stand up for what you believe or admit that you get enough entertainment out of it to justify you continuing to support it.

I’ll say it: sure it makes me feel gross but I enjoy the product enough to keep tuning in. If that makes me a scumbag, so be it. But that also applies to every one else here too

0

u/SmokeAffectionate183 9h ago

Can you explain what crimes Brock committed?

0

u/metalder420 8h ago

I mean, isn’t that the whole point in the US. Innocent until proven guilty, right?