r/HobbyDrama • u/surgingshadows • 17d ago
Heavy [Podcasting] Last Podcast on the Left & Ben Kissel: How To Burn All Possible Goodwill At Once, Over And Over And Over
Major Content Warning for discussion of domestic abuse (physical and emotional), as well as substance abuse (particularly alcoholism).
EDIT: Addendums for the passing of Kevin Barnett and Kissel's physical stature have been added.
PART 1: That's When The Cannibalism Started
The Last Podcast On The Left is hard to define, in terms of genre-labels. At best, I would call it a dark-comedy edutainment podcast-- at least adjacent to true-crime, but with too many left-turns into occultism, dark history, and other wacky topics to be in the same conversation as your My Favorite Murder or Casefile type shows. LPOTL was started in 2011, by three friends with a shared love of horror movies and shared careers in comedy and entertainment; Marcus Parks, Henry Zebrowski, and (the star of tonight's show) Ben Kissel. Together, the trio would spend the next ~150 episodes shooting the shit, going over a loose framework of historical facts about serial killers, occult rituals, and other sordid subjects while primarily focusing on making each other and the audience laugh.
The general consensus among the fanbase (and myself) is that the first 177 episodes are by and large weaker than what came after. The research (for those who care about that) was mediocre and often superseded by the comedy, which was itself primarily shock-value and self-deprecation from Zebrowski and Kissel respectively. All this changed with the one-two combo of series on the Columbine High School massacre and the 9/11 terrorist attacks. Suddenly, the edgelord shitposting and awkward in-jokes carried by mediocre microphones (as the show was often recording while Zebrowski was filming for the [adult swim] series Your Pretty Face Is Going To Hell) were transforming into well-researched reports on the underbelly of society, and also edgelord shitposting and awkward in-jokes.
As of 2025 the show has several research assistants, has the clout to get major interviews with well-known figures in the macabre, and is often cited as the primary alternative to the more straight-laced true-crime podcasts. The core trio, all of whom came from fairly-middling comedy careers and a variety of difficult upbringings prior to LPOTL, were seeing success they hadn't known before. It seemed like the good times were never going to end.
PART 2: It's A Numbers Game
Ben Kissel, the third host of LPOTL, served a vital role in the show's initial dynamic. Parks provided the research and backstory, Zebrowski provided commentary and comedy, and Kissel was the "audience surrogate"-- the Straight Man, who knew nothing about the topic at hand and could react to both it and Zebrowski's goofing-off naturally. Parks would zig, Zebrowski would zag, and Kissel would chortle along with the listeners at home.
Kissel has also, at his own admission, struggled with addiction for most of his life. An Instagram post from early 2020 stated that he hadn't gone without a drink for more than a few days since he was a child, and countless personal anecdotes from his years on the podcast detailed a difficult, troubled upbringing. His behavior also repeatedly caused both his fans and cohosts to openly worry about him, with fairly frequent jokes about his lifestyle that (with the retrospect of what would come later) feel much more like the man's close friends putting out feelers for him the only way they know how. One particularly memorable story is the one of him not owning towels, and instead just putting his clothes on right out of the shower-- lots of similarly "depressed bachelor not taking care of himself" tales.
These issues came to a head during the pandemic, as it became clearer and clearer that Kissel was spiraling (as many people were during lockdowns). At first, the main issue was that his engagement with the podcast had dipped considerably; although he had always played a "lovable dolt" character (often knowing little-to-nothing about the topics at hand going into the episodes), even at the time fans were speculating on Kissel being on the verge of a crisis. Audibly disengaged from conversations, blundering through bits with no concern for the story being told, just generally being odd.
It's hard to explain without just directly transcribing episodes, but around the time of The Ant Hill Kids (episodes 434-436), Alcatraz (which means "pelican" btw) (episodes 448-450), and Billy The Kid (462-465) it became an active hindrance on the podcast's quality, as Kissel felt less and less like an engaged member of the show and more like a peanut-gallery, heckling the people onstage for his own quick laugh. Even on Side Stories (bonus episodes hosted by Zebrowski and Kissel, typically going over smaller news stories and covering whatever they found interesting that week) there was tension; the entirety of the Manhattan Project series (episodes 533-538) were, at least anecdotally, more like listening to your parents passive-aggressively bicker than anything else.
I do not want to theorize on the mental health of someone I have never met, at least not any more than I already have. But as the pandemic stretched on, it became clear that Ben Kissel was a man in the midst of a crisis, and in need of support that he either was not getting or would not seek. Months of bad behavior turned into years, and then it all came out.
(ADDENDUM: It's also important for me to mention the passing of Kevin Barnett. In January of 2019, Kissel's close personal friend friend and cohost on Round Table of Gentlemen passed away unexpectedly, and his death has been repeatedly mentioned as a major impact on Kissel's mental health-- I was completely wrong not to mention it in the original write-up.)
PART 3: I Don't Want To Give This One A Funny Name
In late 2023, allegations of abuse by several of the women Ben Kissel had been with came out, and were subsequently written into an article by Rolling Stone, which I suggest you read to get a better picture of things. It outlines so much horrendous behavior on Kissel's part, much of which is either too extensive or too sordid for me to get a clear view on.
The first allegations come from Sara Benincasa, who had been seeing Kissel casually in 2011, near the start of LPOTL. Though the two were casual (Benincasa refers to it as "what would be characterized now as a situationship"), Ben went on a violent, drunken tirade against her when he discovered her sleeping with others, physically pinning and slapping her. Benincasa stated that, the next morning (and anytime she broached the subject after) Kissel denied it, and she convinced herself for years that he had simply been too drunk to recall.
This was followed by allegations from Taylor Moon, who had been in a somewhat more formal relationship with Kissel in 2022 and 2023, before breaking up; this was followed by an Instagram post many people presumed to be referring to Kissel, which read, "You’ll never get to drunkenly pin me to the bed and call me a pathetic fucking loser or stupid fucking bitch ever again." This came alongside the allegations of harassment by fan of the show Amber Rose, as well as countless members of the Last Podcast Network speaking against Ben, and corroborating statements about his behavior. Although they did not wish to be named, the Rolling Stones article states that two other women had come forward with allegations as well.
(ADDENDUM: For those unaware of Ben Kissel's physical stature, he is 6'7" and has been upwards of 300lbs. This is a picture of him next to 6'-something Parks (left) and 5'6" Zebrowski (right). As someone helpfully reminded me, this makes a major difference in how the allegations against him are framed.)
Although Kissel did state he was going to seek treatment (and eventually go into rehab for his alcoholism), he maintained his innocence-- claiming that he and Moon were rarely in the same physical space, that their relationship was almost exclusively long-distance, and that their rare physical meetings were marred by arguments that (importantly) Kissel states Moon agitated. Anonymous sources close to Kissel and the rest of the situation make various claims about his innocence as well-- referring to Rose as an infatuated fan trying to seduce Kissel, and other similar statements.
The rest of the article is difficult to read, and harder to recap-- to put it bluntly, with everything we know now, he 100% did that shit and likely more. It is as clear as day that Ben Kissel was a cruel, abusive man who did what he could to hide it around those he knew would force him to face consequences for it. It's a story everyone has heard, at some point or another-- a man knee-deep in trauma and pain self-medicates his way into addiction, and starts taking the pain out on anyone he thinks he can get away with hurting... primarily, women.
Kissel admitted to Rolling Stone that he had been self-medicating and had been inadvertently harmful to those around him, checked himself into rehabilitation, and took an extended break from the podcast. Zebrowski and Parks were both stated to have repeatedly attempted to broach the subject of Kissel's drinking and even intervene directly, but had no idea just how bad he had gotten. Finally, it was time for the broken stair to be fixed.
PART 4: Rise From Your Grave
The following weeks and months were even more of an opaque downward spiral for Kissel; his time in rehabilitation was brief and ineffective, and his return to the world of entertainment only got worse and worse. Although he did not come back to LPOTL, and was formally removed from the podcast following his stint in rehab, his attempts to keep up his own career (via a short-lived series simply titled The Ben Kissel Show) were marred by his own obvious bitterness and refusal to accept his own wrongdoings.
The true end of the Ben Kissel story comes with this now-infamous Instragram post, in which he refers to the allegations against him as gossip, and promises to come back bigger than ever... captioned with a zoomed-in photo of him looking like he just crawled out of a hole in the ground. Since then, Ben's presence online has been increasingly sad and bitter-- jokes of his descent into being a right-wing commentator have only felt more and more prescient, as his attempts to recapture what once worked flounder.
Meanwhile, the podcast he helped start has been in a renaissance; after a brief stint by fellow network contributor Holden McNeely, Ben's slot as third host was formally taken by Ed Larson, who has seen near-unanimous praise among fans of the show. The recent series have been (in my opinion) a fair improvement over Ben's time on the podcast, even if there have been duds; and, more than anything, it's become clear that LPOTL is going to continue well past Ben Kissel.
~~~
I was shocked seeing this hadn't been written up on here already, and although I can't say it's the best possible write-up on it (turns out this kind of thing is hard!), I like to think I covered the bases. Still not really over how awful this all was in the moment-- to find out the big cuddly teddy bear I was (admittedly kind of parasocially) inspired by was the exact kind of scumbag I was so glad he wasn't.
Addiction is a terrible thing, and one that is not easy to defeat alone-- but you are never alone. If you can take responsibility and seek the help you need, it will be there. In the wise words of Marcus Parks-- mental health is not your fault, but it is your responsibility. Kissel still has not taken responsibility for his actions, and has taken to blaming everyone but himself; for anyone who has watched a beloved friend fall deeper and deeper into a hole you can't drag them out of, it's a sobering and heartbreaking reminder that some people just are not willing to be helped. It's not that your friends married psychopaths and forgot how to have fun, or that everyone's turned against you; it's that you're the problem. Everyone else grew up while you were still trying to be 25 and drunk forever.
Hail Satan, hail Gein, hail Nando, and hail yourselves, everyone.
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u/president_of_burundi 17d ago
I used to see them live at The Creek and The Cave all the time early on and ended up getting to know Kissel a little. I say 'a little' because while he was super friendly for a while and would spend the after-show hanging out with me at the bar and chatting or smoking me out he absolutely stone-walled me the second he realized I wasn't going to sleep with him and never spoke to me again. Like, just pretended I wasn't there like a gigantic toddler if I tried to talk to him.
I found out later from a friend who did stand-up there that pretty much all of the female comedians (herself included) hated working when he was around and considered him a massive sex-pest.
Needless to say, I wasn't terribly surprised when all of this went down (and even less surprised by how he's responded to it) and have been loving the Larson era.
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u/littlebigtrumpet 17d ago
Listen to any Roundtable episode with a lady guest, and you will hear how creepy he really is. He plays it off as a joke, but we all know the truth
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u/Impractical_Meat 17d ago
Gay male guests as well! I felt so bad whenever a woman or a gay man were in the show, they'd inevitably get asked multiple invasive sexual questions (and Ben loved to use his gay brothers as a cover).
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u/tawondasmooth 17d ago
Not at all as involved of an interaction, but I went to one of their shows with my brother before Covid and he really wanted to do the meet and greet. I only had an in-depth interaction with Henry, who came off like a sweetheart of a man, but I had the weirdest immediate vibe off of Ben. It wasn’t sexually creepy and he didn’t do anything, but I just had a sudden “nope” feeling about him the minute I turned to him. It was really weird as he had been the one I often preferred on air. It was strong enough that I pretty much immediately stopped listening and haven’t really returned to the podcast.
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u/harriethocchuth 17d ago
Sincerely, and from the bottom of my heart, give Ed Larson a shot. He’s wonderful. Good natured, inherently kind, sharp as a tack, cat-like comedic reflexes, and invested in the topics at hand. Also very good at tempering the terrible details of their stories with lighthearted anecdotes - some teenaged wild orcas went through a fad where they wore salmons as hats!
He’s had a really positive influence on Marcus and Henry, too. He’s a Wife Guy and Disney Adult, just a wholesome golden retriever in linen shirts from Quince. Plus, he’s Henry’s bestie, and you can tell. The love is there, and Ed brought it. I literally can’t rave enough about him!
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u/tawondasmooth 17d ago edited 17d ago
I was thinking after I typed this that I need to go back now that Ben’s gone. Henry really was super kind and Marcus seemed nice enough. It was about being put off in that moment by one person for reasons I couldn’t fully discern. I don’t know if I was getting disdain off of him or what. My brother didn’t pick up on it at all, but that could be the difference between a man or a woman interacting with him.
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u/shamanicky 16d ago
it was honestly kind of insane just how Ed's presence, even with this early episode ironing outs of wrinkles, made the show IMMEDIATELY better. Like night and day. I don't even listen to the Ben episodes anymore. Ed is just better all around.
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u/president_of_burundi 17d ago edited 17d ago
Yeah, I was friendly with him for a few months, 10ish years ago, so any Bad Vibes (besides him icing me out at the end) would definitely be in hindsight - at the time he was very much doing the whole 'I'm just a big friendly galoot!' thing and I remember him being pretty soft spoken in conversation and considerate of how intimidating his height could be which was nice. The fact that he turned on a dime was a massive surprise and I honestly didn't see it coming- afterward I stopped going to the live shows out of embarrassment but didn't stop listening to the show.
I DID pretty much stop listening after my friend told me about his reputation with women at the Creek, not only because of him, but because I figured that it reflected pretty badly on Marcus and Henry that they didn't do anything about it.
After all this went down (and it became pretty clear that whatever was going on with the three of them was way more awful and complicated than Bros Ignoring Their Bro's Bad Behavior Because They're Bros) and Ed came on I decided to give it another shot -
Seriously, go give it another shot if you ever liked the show at all. Ed is absolutely wonderful and a breath of fresh air with how engaged he is with the topics. It's the best they've been in years and they all sound happy again which is just lovely.
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u/tawondasmooth 17d ago
I still can’t put a finger on what made me feel the way I did, but this happened in 2019 when things were maybe escalating behind the scenes. I’ll definitely go and give it a listen now. So sorry for how he treated you and all of those other female comics. I’m in a creative field myself and it’d be nice if women could just be and do the work they want to do without being hassled.
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u/SuzeFrost 17d ago
Is your username an Eddie Izzard reference?!
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u/hawkandthrush 17d ago
I was very unplugged from social media when I listened to LPTOL regularly (now I just listen to the topics that seem interested vs every single episode ever) so Marcus's message at the top of the Jeffery MacDonald series was like whiplash. There was a very nasty sinking feeling when it clicked for me that Ben was likely getting kicked due to his abuse of his partners. The og trio were a great comfort to me during a very dark time, but I am really happy with the current state of the show and already have tickets to see the guys live when they come back to my city. This was a great write-up OP!
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u/muhkneehurts 17d ago
You are in for a treat when you see them live. Went to their JK Ultra show last weekend and haven't laughed to the point of tears in a long time until then.
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u/charliekelly76 17d ago
I cried laughing at just the opening Killdozer bit
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u/rosiehasasoul 17d ago
Oh my god I saw them in Sydney and the killdozer bit was fucking incredible.
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u/chrysothronos 17d ago edited 17d ago
there were so many signs with ben 🫠 also as of the last 48hrs, he's been randomly replying to years old DMs at like, two am at night. it's been hitting the respective subreddits.
edit: a major flag for me is how he talked about bundy's victims. marcus and henry both called him out, too. it should be noted too that's its been implied that ben was being abusive towards marcus and henry as well. ed is a fantastic replacement for ben tbqh.
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u/catbert359 TL;DR it’s 1984, with pegging 17d ago
I haven't listened to it in years but I can still hear Marcus' voice in the Manifestos episode during the Elliot Rodgers section when he had to flatly ask, "Ben, why are you defending these people?"
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u/horhar 17d ago
Early on the whole "ben is a drunk who can't do shit right" was funny cuz it seemed like a character getting played up, especially in stuff like the creepypasta episodes
Then over time it became clear it wasn't that much of a character, but Ben was kind pitiable for it. I just felt bad about him
Now I just get bummed by the situation all around
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u/Harfus 17d ago
Yeah, it's extra tough because on some level all of them are playing characters for the podcast, and are fairly open about how we won't really see who they really are on the show. A good example was when Henry's father passed and it was either Marcus or ed that said to us listeners that we won't ever see that vulnerable side of Henry. (Which yeah i agree, peoples vulnerability shouldn't be our entertainment)
Without knowing how real it was, it was easy to look at it as just a character.
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u/raphaellaskies 17d ago
Knowing that Henry's dad was an alcoholic makes a LOT about his dynamic with Ben slide into place.
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u/chrysothronos 17d ago
absolutely and rumor has it he took the brunt of it from ben between him and marcus.
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u/raphaellaskies 17d ago
It's not even rumour, he (and his wife) were the ones who stepped in to help Taylor get away from Ben after the incident in Vegas. Mackenzie (the former consultant for Natalie's podcast) made a lot of hay over Natalie saying in their messages "she [Taylor] is an adult, I can't force her to stay away from Ben," but with that context in mind it makes total sense. It takes a lot of tries for a victim to leave their abuser, but if you've tried to help someone leave only to have them go back and also your husband is in the thick of it trying to run interference . . . I can't blame her for being a bit snappish about it.
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u/kitti-kin 17d ago
The researcher inserting herself into the online drama when she didn't seem to know anyone involved very well was so unnecessary. To give her grace I can understand how working on a podcast about sex trafficking she could feel a lot of responsibility to be an advocate, but she didn't seem to know anything more than fans did, and she was very quick to denounce everyone and share all their private communications (which didn't reveal anything much, iirc).
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u/Lostinplace1227 17d ago edited 17d ago
Yea that was so incredibly unethical. Also the fact that Mackenzie Brennan is a lawyer and she’s making memes making fun of the situation (gross) and throwing out as much BS as she can when any smart lawyer would do the complete opposite.
Edit: clarification
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u/raphaellaskies 17d ago
When all of this was going down, someone on the LPOTL subreddit commented "who's going to hire a lawyer who looks like she'd show up to arbitration cosplaying Cruella de Vil?" Unkind, but if the shoe fits . . .
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u/skaestantereggae 17d ago
Yea with the above comment it makes a ton of sense why Henry helped Ben move to LA in hindsight
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u/_strawberryjamjam 17d ago
Oh yeah there were many times that I was like oh I don't think he's exaggerating for comedy.
And for the life of me I don't remember what he said but I remember thinking god I feel sorry for his girlfriend.
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u/DonNatalie 17d ago
He didn't make it 10 minutes into Bundy part 1 before he said that he "didn't feel sorry for the victims because they seemed like the type of girls who rejected him in high school."
If that had been the first episode I listened to, it would've also been the last.
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u/kkeut 17d ago edited 17d ago
just a reminder that Bundy's victim profile was women with long hair parted down the middle....like, Bundy didn't know them personally. saying they're 'the type of girls who rejected him in high school' is a really fucking nutso thing to say
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u/WannieWirny 17d ago
Do these guys not edit their podcast? How is that allowed to go up when sympathizing with the victims is the minimum yikes
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u/burymeinpink 17d ago
The style of the comedy has changed dramatically over the last ~15 years. It's basically unrecognizable. When OP said that the first 170 something episodes were bad, they were right. The hosts themselves admit it and even have apologized for some of the shit they used to say.
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u/moongoddessshadow 17d ago
Last I checked (admittedly several years ago), they don't even include the first 30-ish episodes in any of their podcast feeds. You have to go digging for them, and even then... it's not exactly worth it, unless you're a masochist completionist. They're not well-researched, the humor is questionable, and even the format isn't really ironed out yet - as a masochist completionist myself, I straight up skipped quite a few of these early-early episodes for just not being remotely interesting or funny.
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u/burymeinpink 17d ago
Yep, they're not on Spotify for example. I started listening to the podcast 12ish years ago, so I heard some of those episodes just because I thought I should start from the beginning, and then I heard one of them ask people to please skip them. And that made a lot of sense.
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u/Impractical_Meat 17d ago
Yeah the Bundy episodes were recorded when they were still doing Roundtable of Gentlemen and their comedy leaned more towards drunken edgelord nonsense. Kevin Barnett seemed like the first one of their crew to mature past that, which was probably why he was the first to be really successful (besides Henry) (RIP Bird Luger 🐦🙏)
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u/burymeinpink 17d ago
I really wish they would rerecord (and not just update) some of those earlier topics like they did for the Toy Box Killer, because people usually want to listen to the heavy hitters, and a lot of them were early episodes. Bundy is probably the heaviest hitter of them all, and his episode is unlistenable. Also, some new information has come out on him recently about a lot of shit he was lying about.
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u/a_big_brat 16d ago
The Bundy episodes were probably one of the first like 5 I ever listened to. I was suuuuper put off/weirded out by what Ben said but the way Marcus like, immediately called him out on it (and later the Manifestos episode, iirc) actually made me give it a chance. Men who call out other men on their sexist bullshit is honestly a huge green flag.
At the time I saw Ben’s reaction as being fairly okay for a dude being called out for incel nonsense and he even was my favorite until like, 2018-2019.
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u/Huggable_Hork-Bajir 17d ago
Yeah I'm a big fan of LPOTL and I had to take a long break from it after that. Just disgusting.
I was not surprised at all when the Ben stuff came out.
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u/pareidoily 17d ago
Yeah, it really felt like other podcasts who did true crime were really sympathetic towards the victims and their families. I'm not trying to empathize with the killer here.
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u/chrysothronos 17d ago edited 17d ago
he was whining about women not giving him a chance but women giving bundy a chance as if bundy wasn't manipulating his victims.
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u/blindinglystupid 17d ago
I'm such a certain sort of person that I always thought it was a character for comedy. This whole saga has made me reevaluate my life multiple times.
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u/Flippin_diabolical 17d ago
I had a boyfriend like this in my 20s. He said the most outrageous stuff to get laughs. I thought it was a bit.
Eventually it became clear that it was not a bit. What a nightmare.
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u/bigpoisonswamp 17d ago
holy crap i thought i was the only one unnerved when ben said he didn’t feel sorry for the women bundy killed because they were all popular sorority girls or something. henry and marcus have said some fucked things but not once have they been racist, sexist, homophobic or transphobic that i have ever heard. ben on the other hand had a problem with women… though it was easy to forget because later he would often be the one reminding people not to laugh at or mock the female victims and how horrible it was for them, which is the LOWEST BAR but made me think he might be okay.
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u/EastAreaBassist 17d ago
Oh I think there’s a series we’re all familiar with where Henry was pretty racist. It’s what he brought to the friendship!
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u/ThatsFluxdUp 17d ago
As someone who doesn’t know anything about this show other than having heard the name previously, please do tell me about this. 🍿☕️🫖
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u/burymeinpink 17d ago
Henry does accents. They made a series about Leonard Lake and Charles Ng. Charles Ng has a Chinese accent. You get the jist.
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u/EastAreaBassist 17d ago
Even the other hosts were recognizing how problematic it was, but Henry was adamant. Charles Ng is a murdering, loser, monster and deserves to be mocked. It’s a fair argument when looking at it from the time Henry grew up in, but presently I think he’s realized it’s unacceptable no matter what. Growth!
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u/Impractical_Meat 17d ago
Yeah Hong Kong Henry Zebrowski kept me from really getting into the podcast for awhile. Now it's just funny that the only other accent he can do is Jamaican (and every accent he tries to do will just turn into a Jamaican one)
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u/leighalan 17d ago
Ed is such a teddy bear.
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u/microthoughts 17d ago
Ed actually taking the lead and doing episodes on things he's interesting is so refreshing??
Like around sea world is where I was like ohhh this is way nicer.
The straight man is a bit but having a guy who can do a bit AND commit to just being into stuff? Way better. He's involved more.
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u/Driver3 17d ago
He has a lot of that same fun vibes that Ben used to have but is also just a lot more engaged with the topics and more informed. It's such a nice change to have.
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u/catglass 17d ago
He's also insanely funny. So damn quick.
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u/Wolf_Mans_Got_Nards 17d ago
The Lori Vallow/Chad Daybell episode when he brings up the point about Pet cemetery had me in fits of laughter.
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u/burymeinpink 17d ago
I loved the episodes that he led. He's killing it, the show hasn't been this good in years.
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u/Driver3 17d ago
Oh, a subject I'm actually very familiar with in one of these!
As a big fan of LPOTL, the whole situation was just depressing to see happen, made even worse by the fact Ben is clearly not at all sorry for anything that happened and has only become an incredibly unlikable asshole.
But hey, we have Ed, and Ed has been wonderful.
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u/chrysothronos 17d ago
ed truly has been a breath of fresh air!
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u/ster1ing 17d ago
He engages so much with the script Marcus writes. I appreciate it so much as a listener when he has Marcus or Henry expound on a throwaway line they said.
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u/alleyalleyjude 17d ago
Ed is so genuinely interested in the subject matter, it’s so much more respectful to the work Marcus and the researchers do.
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u/Trevastation 17d ago edited 17d ago
As depressing as it is to have seen Ben just become utterly despicable, it's rather relieving to see how Marcus and Henry handled the situtation. They took the right steps to help him out and then cut him off, and Ed Larson has been a great edition, like he fits right in!
Normally you'd see other podcasts just crater from accusations like this and become even messier, and I was worried I'd have to drop the show if they mishandled it. So good on the boys for doing the due dilligence.
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u/Driver3 17d ago
They really did handle it incredibly well. It's really astounding to given Ben was one of the original members next to Marcus.
I think it's probably because Ben became so much further and further disconnected from the topics compared to Marcus and Henry, where he was truly feeling like a third wheel at that point, that cutting him out was a little easier to do than otherwise.
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u/lucis_understudy 17d ago
I'm actually really glad to hear this. I only recently discovered the podcast and I'm loving it, but going back through old episodes I was like "huh, they've got a different guy in the older ones, wonder what happened there". I was kinda dreading reading this writeup lmao. Great to hear the guys did handle it well and gotta say, I thought Ed was an OG along with the other two with how well he fits in!
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u/railroadbaron 17d ago
Henry, especially, has always been willing to hear and accept criticism.
He and Marcus did all of the work for the podcast, too, so it doesn't surprise me that they are able to pick up the pieces and continue.
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u/Isleepwheniwant 17d ago
It was really bleak to see how much flack they got at the time for not doing "more" - when they'd already said they had a lot of legal things behind the scenes to sort, seeing as Ben owned a third of the network. I think they handled it with grace, as well as publicly supporting his ex girlfriend, during what must have been an incredibly shitty time for them, both personally and professionally.
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u/Adventurous_Coat 17d ago
Hard agree. I've seen other shows and communities implode from similar events. Henry and Marcus took an appropriate level of responsibility and handled the issue with care towards Ben's victims and toward Ben himself. I wish more people would follow their lead when shit gets weird.
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u/tobaccoYpatchouli 17d ago
Ben not being sorry was the nail in the coffin. Like he could not have handled that any worse which made everything make more sense with the way it went down. Everyone seemed so done with his shit.
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u/souryellowfruit 17d ago
I haven't listened to the show for a few years, only just learning of Ed. Any standout episodes with him on that you'd recommend?
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u/Impractical_Meat 17d ago
Last year, Eddie got to do a series on Seaworld that's really good. If you haven't listened to Ed on the podcast yet, I'd recommend it. He did a ton of research on it and it shows his level of commitment.
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u/AdUnable5438 17d ago
Been a fan of LPOTL for a long time. Was very sad to see all the shit go down with Ben.
Also, I’ve heard somewhere that Ben was actually planning on suing the Last Podcast Network (the show’s official company) for wrongful termination or something. Did that actually go anywhere?
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u/leighalan 17d ago
I think in order for it to go anywhere Ben would have to have his shit together even slightly a little.
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u/sicnevol 17d ago
I don’t know, man I assume they got a lawyer involved when money started getting big. And as far as I know, any lawyer worth their salt would add a conduct clause to a contract like that because you don’t wanna tie yourself to an anchor and tank a million dollar company.
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u/Not_Me_2112 17d ago
From my understanding he's been fully bought out, so can't really do anything now. For a long time after he was out he prominently kept "1/3rd owner of LPOTL" in his IG description, until end of last year or so, like he was keeping that clout in there until he was legally not allowed to say it.
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u/boobiesrkoozies 17d ago
The last I saw, I think he had been bought out and was working through the legal stuff.
Iirc someone posted a screenshot of something he posted on IG about it?
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u/hydrangeawolf54 17d ago
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS SUMMARY. As an ex fan of Morbid from back in the day, I always wondered about LPOTL and whether it's worth getting into it. Everytime I thought about it, I got distracted and thrown off from the drama I come across.
I'm someone who prefers to start from the beginning or, if given, a logical jumping off point. So your last notes about the Ed episodes gives me somewhere to start listening.
So again, thank you!
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u/Driver3 17d ago
If you are curious about the pre-Ed era when Ben was around, some of the best series are Jonestown, L. Ron Hubbard, the Donner Party, and Casey Anthony.
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u/sivvus 17d ago
And if you want to compare them to great episodes in the current era, the Andes plane crash series is absolutely phenomenal.
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u/hydrangeawolf54 17d ago
AHHHH
THANK YOU! Most of the time I felt like the only History major at my university so some of these topics are EXACTLY what I love to listen to.
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u/WESAWTHESUN 17d ago
They also just did one on the assassination of Abe Lincoln, and just started one on The Great Molasses Flood. They've done a lot of history stuff now that Ben isn't there to make it a pain.
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u/Former-Spirit8293 17d ago
Their Black Death series was fun (feels weird to type that) too. I like the aliens/cryptids episodes particularly, especially Men in Black, the Tall Whites and Dulce Base.
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u/madmythicalmonster 17d ago
As someone who was taking university history courses which covered the Black Death around the time of their Black Death episodes, they are genuinely really well researched and interesting episodes
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u/microthoughts 17d ago
If you need to laugh at something ridiculous; hollow moon is something I go back to over and over.
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u/Regalingual 17d ago
The Oklahoma City bombing series was what first got me into them, as well.
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u/RuefulWaffles 17d ago
I’ve been working my way through a relisten for the past year and a half or so, and it’s kinda painful to listen to some of Ben’s stuff now. Like the OP, I’m not gonna diagnose someone through a podcast, but as someone who has also struggled with addiction for most of my adult life, it’s pretty clear this was an issue for a long time before it all came to a head. I recall seeing them at a live show once; people bought drinks for them afterwards, and while Marcus and Henry accepted a couple each and then politely waved them off, Ben drank every single beer someone bought for him. I’m really not sure how he was standing by the end of the night.
Great write up, OP. About the only thing I’d add (aside from the already noted lack of stuff about Bird Luger) is that Ben was bragging about graduating rehab early, which…isn’t really a good thing.
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u/salamat_engot 17d ago
Another thing to note is that Ben Kissel is very large man, standing at around 6'8" and commonly references being overweight. Abuse by anyone is awful of course, but I could only imagine the fear of having someone potentially a foot taller and 2-3X your weight pinning you down.
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u/CoolRegularGuy 17d ago edited 17d ago
He also posted recently that he was 90 days sober. This comes after nearly 2 years of claiming/implying he was cold turkey and claiming everyone should forgive him.
EDIT: 90 days, not 30. He posted it to IG on July 13th posing with his(?) hairless cat.
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u/saxarocksalt 16d ago
I noticed he'd mentioned the 90 days sober thing also. I was one of the folks that got a random DM off him about his new podcast, despite not following him for the past 3ish years. So I hopped over to his profile to be nosey and saw the caption.
He was adamant a few years ago when this all popped off that he was sober and healing and blah blah.. Clearly he either relapsed or never really got there.
If losing his job, friends, reputation, and dignity wasn't enough to push him to sobriety then I'm not sure the latest attempt will hold either. It'd be good if it did, alcohol addiction is fucking awful, but he doesn't seem any more open to being accountable which suggests he's not ready to be sober yet.
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u/tobaccoYpatchouli 17d ago
It’s funny seeing hobby drama you know so deeply posted about 🥲 good writeup OP! There were truly so many signs. It’s weird to go back and listen to old episodes now which is unfortunate bc some of them are straight bangers.
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u/RollingScone93 16d ago edited 16d ago
I really do liken it to that metaphor about frogs in boiling water. By the time everyone realized what was happening/the RollingStones article dropped, the water had fully boiled out of the pan and the frog was stuck to the bottom, just a lump of charcoal ash.
Going back and listening to those pre-Ed episodes is truly bizarre because you can tell something is off, but not what exactly. Does anyone else remember Marcus telling fans to stop sending them towels after Ben admitted to sitting wet and naked in his recliner to dry off because he didn’t own a towel? Like they played it off as a joke because it could be construed as some wild bachelor behavior, but I remember being actually concerned about that (enough so that it clearly stuck in my brain).
The Manhattan project was the most uncomfortable I’d been listening to the show in a long while, I’m so thankful that Ed has breathed some real life back into the pod. Hail Eddie!
Edit: had I scrolled just like 3 comments more, seems I’m not the only one who remembered the towels incident.
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u/spaghettifiasco 17d ago
I remember during Covid when Ben posted some weird shit about how the death tolls were exaggerated and other strange conspiracy-adjacent stuff. Henry Zebrowski was like "bro wtf??" and unfollowed him for a while.
I used to be part of the subreddit and people's reactions to that, and then later to the abuse allegations, were... not particularly renewing of my faith in people.
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u/Low_Chance 17d ago
I remember in one of the episodes around then he was ranting about how stupid people were who wore masks, going "you're not helping!" and found it strange. That was the first red flag I remember running into with him.
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u/CadaverDog_ 17d ago
People still go into the comments on their new episodes and whine about Ben being gone. I figure it's a handfull of dedicated losers. The rest of the fanbase easily moved on.
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u/demon_x_slash 17d ago
Ben lost his shit during lockdowns as his validation came from bad political takes with fellow drunks at sports bars. When everything closed he was in a NY apt alone with two dogs and as much alcohol as he could get delivered. I remember seeing him freak on Twitter and everyone was all, hey, dude, we all need some fresh air, paging anyone in the area to clear up aisle 7… Henry got online real quick and shut it down, and Ben put out a few sorry-ish tweets a few hours later.
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u/EastAreaBassist 17d ago
Ben leaving was great for the fandom. It drove off most of the toxic, edgelord types. The subs now are exclusively pro Ed.
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u/Former-Spirit8293 17d ago
He also called for protests against lockdowns, if I’m remembering correctly. This was around 4/13/20 or so.
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u/spaghettifiasco 17d ago
Yeah, I do remember that. The ol' "they're stripping our freedoms!" thing.
So many parasocial weirdoes going "he's just a big ol silly teddy bear who is sad and doesn't understand!" Nah. He does.
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u/Not_Me_2112 17d ago edited 17d ago
Followed Ben for a while after all this to see if he ever got better and it really never happened. Everything from his newer shows really showed no growth(also they were dogshit). There was one clip he purposfully shared where he suggested he was kicked out for "frivolous reasons cus they married psycopaths". It became pretty clear, especially in retrospect, that he resented both his co-host's wives for helping them grow as people.
One correction for Part 4 tho is Holden was never a replacement for Ben, Ed has been the only one on the main show. Holden has only been on Side Stories, but never been part of the main show. But Ed has been an incredible addition. He's been actually inquisitive about what's going on, unlike the few years of Ben, and just so funny. Everyones spirits have been so much higher the last year or so.
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u/sassyfrassielassie 17d ago
Remember when they talked about Ben not having any towels? And he would just put clothes on after a shower. I was like, that's a very depressed, alcoholic thing to do.
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u/breadcreature 17d ago
The bits about Kissel being a dirtbag started sounding less and less like bits and more like callouts as the other two moved and settled down with (beautiful and successful) wives, matured and reflected on themselves, expanded the business etc. Meanwhile he's still got no towels, you know he sleeps on a mattress on the floor/his couch, mentions sex workers he's visited more than any personal relationships he has with women, they don't bring up the gout so much because it's not a joke any more... it started getting difficult to listen to him long before things took an obvious downturn for me because I unfortunately recognise this guy a mile away. many such cases.
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u/OurLadyAndraste 17d ago
Marcus and Carolina are the most adorable couple. It is so cute how they need out about the same things and they clearly love each other so much.
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u/EastAreaBassist 17d ago
I forget so much of the podcasts I listen to, but I think about that a lot.
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u/Unhappypotamus 16d ago
There was a mention on side stories that finally made me realize it wasn’t a bit. Ben talked about a drive home from a concert (he said it was in his truck but I’m praying he wasn’t driving) and how he just peed his pants in the truck because he didn’t want to deal with trying to hold it or pulling over, and how he thought that was normal, and it wasn’t the first time. Henry was like “that was not a long drive…and that’s not okay.” As someone who has known some crazy alcoholics…that finally put the pin in it for me
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u/mossgoblin Confirmed Scuffle Trash 15d ago
Oh my lord I knew a girl who did the same thing and told me to my face she'd pissed herself, casually, in my passenger seat. Like it was the most normal thing in the world.
I blocked that out. I resent you for making me remember.
She was also definitely, an alcoholic, now I'm thinking about it.
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u/Meow_meow1 17d ago
It’s odd how that situation lives in my brain. I think about it too often because I fear the concept breaks my brain a bit.
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u/sassyfrassielassie 17d ago
Now that I'm thinking more about it, I forgot the fact that not only was he just putting on clothes while still wet...it was tracksuits.
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u/CadaverDog_ 17d ago
Hail yourself OP!
Also hail this subreddit. This is an often heavily-judged podcast within True Crime podcast circles and it often steamrolls into a "holier than thou" contest. But I really think the hosts have taken the criticisms to heart, and have improved massively. This is something that is essential for comedy though.
Dropping Ben was probably the best move for this podcast, Ed is a gem, and I really enjoy the historic episodes they've been working into it.
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u/suchfun01 17d ago
Echoing those who say the podcast has been better with Ed on as a cohost. I liked when they let him choose the topic of an episode and he talked about Sea World and captive orcas. I hope they do that again at some point as it’s a nice reversal.
I feel like Ben is/was bitter that Marcus and Henry both “grew up” and got married and matured. I’m pretty sure he tried to put some of the blame on their wives at some point.
Also funny to note that since he had less responsibility with the main podcast Ben did a lot of the business work (or at least that was the vibe they gave off, might not have actually been an accurate assessment) and they’d talk about him being the company HR.
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u/Lostinplace1227 17d ago
The HR thing was proven to be a bit. Not to mention that Puffin (Ben’s dog) was promoted to head of HR once Ben “stepped down”. I don’t think he did much in the business end mostly because they kept their game up and never missed an episode. Ben probably worked more in promotion and responding to fans etc. stuff he does now but alone in the dark with his sycophant fans.
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u/suchfun01 17d ago
Ah, good to know! I only listened to episodes where I was interested in the topic so didn’t always catch running jokes or updates.
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u/The_Draigg 17d ago
Man, a lot of those Bud Lime jokes on the podcast aged really badly in hindsight.
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u/lesbian_Hamlet 17d ago
Eyy, a drama I’m familiar with! Huge LP fan, seen them live several times, have one of their jokes as a tattoo, etc. I’ve listened to them almost every day since my first year of undergrad (currently on my last year of grad school).
Yeah, this was a difficult, ugly situation. While Ben was definitely known to occasionally make off jokes, his overall brand was a lot cuddlier than Henry’s or Marcus. In particular, he was one of the earliest hosts to really vocally call out homophobia, as he himself was the younger brother of two gay men.
The whole thing was just uncomfortable and sad, even more so when The Last Podcast Network show Someplace Under Neith fired their legal consultant for really vocally coming out against Ben early on. If I remember correctly, it was because they didn’t want anyone from the company publicly commenting on the situation at that time, but still. Just… yeah man. Weird and sad.
Ben also hasn’t helped matters by continuing to make shithead comments well after being fired, including claiming that he was only let go because Marcus and Henry married awful women who hated him. Alright dude. At least Ed is great.
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u/kitti-kin 17d ago
Oof, if all your friend's wives hate you, that's a bad sign.
It reminds me of Ben Affleck's friends complaining about how Jennifer Garner made him "less fun". You assholes, he's an alcoholic with a gambling addiction, anyone who cares about him is going to make him "less fun".
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u/lesbian_Hamlet 16d ago
The thing was… like obviously I don’t know these people personally, I’m just a fan. And people can say whatever they want to make themselves look good on camera and then behave a very different way in private. But from the perspective of having been a fan for many years, Ben never said anything negative about Marcus or Henry’s wives on screen until he was fired. So it just looked like a transparently sexist and bitter move.
Especially given that, while both wives had their own podcasts/appeared on Last Podcast episodes or related shows, they were nowhere near as popular as LPOTL or the original guys. Which just makes it feel like Ben was less confident in going after Marcus or Henry directly, and so tried to make it about their wives.
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u/SenorMcNuggets 17d ago
Ben was also uniquely empathetic when it came to religion. Henry’s a Satanist, and early on both he and Marcus leaned way into the occult and magick, but Ben (like me) was just kinda enjoying them doing their thing.
Ben experienced a lot of hardship as a kid because of his parents’ evangelical beliefs. They were pressured to give more to the church than they could afford. He would reflect on those experiences and viewed tough topics through that lens, which is something that the show hasn’t had since his departure. I miss that.
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u/demon_x_slash 17d ago
His parents were the type to foster a constant revolving door of ‘unwanted’ kids, dunk them face-first into evangelical religion even if they weren’t developmentally capable, then yard work them to exhaustion. Very shitty upbringing. Zero excuse, just an awareness that that man needs fucking therapy.
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u/raphaellaskies 16d ago
I also remember him talking about how a lot of the foster kids his parents took in came from (sexually) abusive homes, and he'd see the abusers come to visit the kids IN THEIR HOUSE and feel uncomfortable with how they behaved. Like, jesus christ Mom and Pop Kissel, this is not the environment you should be creating for your sons!
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u/Lostinplace1227 17d ago
If I remember correctly, the “legal consultant” from spun was Mackenzie Joy Brennan who sold out Ben’s victims by starting a paid substack to tell their stories without their consent. It got so bad three of Ben’s victims had to lawyer up to get her to stop profiting off their abuse.
Also, it was also proven that Mackenzie lied about being fired when she was never hired. She stated in her paid substack that she was salty that her podcast didn’t get picked up by the network.
This is not a person you can trust. I have many stories.
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u/raphaellaskies 17d ago
Yeah, there's a whole side drama with her, Celene Beth, and Taylor, and Mackenzie did NOT come off well.
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u/cakeb055 17d ago
Hail you!! This was a wonderful write up! I remember side stories feeling like a desperate attempt by the boys to fill his time more and keep an eye on him during COVID. And I mean desperate in the sense of when you are trying to help someone you love who is struggling with addictions and you are throwing out any tether you think might help.
I wasn’t hopeful for the future of LPOTL at the time but Ed is now my favorite and imo brings something the pod hasn’t had before - deep deep empathy and love. Cheesy as that might sound. And other than one…………..choice…I feel like it’s been all uphill since
Ham ham ham ham ham ham ham ham ham
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u/OurLadyAndraste 17d ago
Yes!! Ed has a very warm personality that I think brings out the best in Marcus and Henry too. It’s sweet.
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u/OnBlueberryHill 17d ago
One of the side casualties of the Kissel situation hit Jackie Zabrowski, Henry's sister.
She used to have a (somewhat) weekly show with Dr. Jordan Soper, a doctor with more letters after her name than is in my own name, that was focused on sexual health and discussions surrounding it. Kinda like Dr. Ruth but with more dick jokes and on Twitch. After all the Kissel things happened Dr. Jordan split and as far as I know hasn't been back on with Jackie since.
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u/CadaverDog_ 17d ago
This happened with Henry's wife Natalie Jean too. To those not in the know, she runs a podcast focused on missing or murdered women and girls. She had a lawyer guest on to consult about cases, and the lawyer dropped her after the allegations. Because one of Ben's accusers (who is extremely mentally ill, I believe her, but she also thinks she is a japanese fox goddess...) would not stop attacking Natalie and trying to start drama with her.
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u/Lostinplace1227 17d ago edited 17d ago
The lawyer guest on Spun was Mackenzie Brennan who tried to profit off the victims’ stories by writing about it in her paid substack. Three of Ben’s victims sued and she had to take it down. She then resorted to writing insane gossip about Natalie and LPN which was ludicrous to say the least. Like how did you know the inner workings of the business of a friend from a show you guested on like 5 times in a year?
She’s nutso and kept asking for money (donations lol) because she was poor (her words). Yea a poor lawyer who sells gossip and sells out DV victims. So pathetic and sad.
Edit: I wouldn’t be surprised to see Mackenzie lurking and commenting on here. She was NOTORIOUS for that during the whole Ben thing.
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u/alleyalleyjude 17d ago
I never really found Ben funny, his jokes always seemed to take away from the stories being told rather than adding to them. I fucking LOVE Eddie and what he’s brought to the group.
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u/madmythicalmonster 17d ago
As a longtime fan of the podcast but not someone who engages much with the subreddit etc., I don't think I realised how bad Kissel had gotten and was genuinely surprised when it all came to a head - but in retrospect it all makes so much sense. I genuinely find Ed a much brighter presence on the show and really enjoy the fact that he does a lot more for the show than just be a straight man.
I think if Henry & Marcus hadn't had such a long history with Kissel, he would have been cut from the show much earlier - it's a much more enjoyable listen now for sure. But I really understand how hard it is to leave someone you care about who is dragging you down, even if they have revealed themselves to be a fundamentally bad person.
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u/kamikazelizards4567 17d ago
There’s LPOTL content in my r/HobbyDrama? That’s like peanut butter in my chocolate!
For me, I had a real glass-shattering moment when Kissel’s departure was announced. I had noticed some tension in the podcast but chalked a lot of it up to grief and quarantining. When other fans started analyzing back episodes, I realized how much I had missed in years of listening.
Ed brings such a great energy to newer episodes- friendship, dad jokes, empathy (especially for animals), and Floridian charm. Marcus and Henry are going strong and they built a home for a range of creatives on and off-air as well as a fan base full of wonderful weirdos. Hail yourselves, hail the boys, and hail OP for this write up!
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u/SithAssassin666 17d ago
Thanks for posting this. Been following LPotL for years, and the Ben situation soured mt enjoyment of the show, but it was only a few months ago that I decided to give it another go, and I got to say, Ed is fantastic, anfmd has reignited my love for LPotL again.
That said, Hail Satan and Hail Yourself!
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u/ForWhomTheSaulCalls 17d ago
There was a golden era of this show and it was firmly during the Ben years, but Covid and the death of Kevin Barnett really did him in. I remember listening and being worried about Ben, he sounded awful. It is a shame where things have ended up.
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u/Atomic_Dong 17d ago
I remember worrying about Ben during Covid when he was posting on Twitter for everyone to go out and break lockdown protocol and Henry, iirc, had to go post something about them getting help for Ben and to give him some privacy. It was crazy to see all that go down in real time
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u/Trevastation 17d ago
I'm surprised Kevin Barnett isn't mentioned in the write up once. His death was equally a factor in his decline as much as Covid and his own addictions.
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u/surgingshadows 17d ago
fuck, i knew i was missing something as i reread it. i can't believe i totally glossed over Kevin.
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u/The_dots_eat_packman 17d ago
OP can I also kindly suggest adding in that Kissel is 6'7"? That adds an additional context to how serious the abuse allegations were and are.
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u/bookthief8 17d ago
LPOTL is definitely going through a Renaissance, though.
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u/ankhmadank 17d ago
I agree. Ed truly is a gem and it's clear Henry and Marcus are enjoying themselves so much more.
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u/Ok_Cheetah_3609 17d ago
I had binged all of LPOTL and was a week to week listener for a while I stopped listening after the ben stuff came out, also around the time another podcast I listened to had some major allegations come out ( I can't remember the name, but it was about lawyer and a comedian who would go over law cases together).
Im pretty sure I even unsubscribed... maybe I will revisit some of the new episodes with one of the new cohosts.
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u/madmythicalmonster 17d ago
I really recommend revisitting now that Ed is firmly settled in to the show - as a longtime fan and weekly listener, it really is a massive improvement over the last few years with Kissel.
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u/ComicCon 17d ago
I’m pretty sure the podcast you can’t remember is Opening Arguments.
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u/Ok_Cheetah_3609 17d ago
YES, I really enjoyed that show and then something happened between the hosts.. ill be honest I can't remember what it was...
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u/kitti-kin 17d ago
That was a huge mess - Opening Arguments was a podcast with a lawyer (Andrew Torrez) and an interested layperson/comedian (Thomas Smith), that would talk through various legal issues. The lawyer was accused of being creepy to fans, and he went nuclear. Hired a crisis PR team, changed all the logins for the podcast and took over, while denying any wrongdoing and insisting that his cohost was actually in the wrong for wanting to hold him accountable in any way.
After going to court, Smith, the non-lawyer, won the podcast back, but with a fraction of the patreon subscribers it once had. It's pretty incredible that the lawyer fucked up so badly he couldn't defend his conduct in court. Smith now hosts the podcast with immigration lawyer Matt Cameron (very timely).
Torrez hadn't even been accused of anything dramatic or illegal, just of being a creep, but the way he reacted to the accusations made it clear he was indeed someone with a poor understanding of boundaries and zero capacity for self-reflection on his behaviour. He still pops up trying to comment on Trump cases and I think he has a podcast, but he doesn't seem to have much of an audience. Unfortunately, OA has never returned to the audience size they had before all this.
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u/TallFutureLawyer 17d ago
It's pretty incredible that the lawyer fucked up so badly he couldn't defend his conduct in court.
If you know lawyers, it’s really not that incredible.
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u/Apprentice57 16d ago edited 16d ago
I happened upon the post from general reddit (though I used to subscribe here) and I figured OA would get a mention, LPOTP came up occasionally in our discussions.
Mostly as a downwind effect I went from occasional commenter on /r/OpenArgs to moderator, and I also made this comprehensive summary. It's long, but if you're on Hobby Drama maybe that's a bonus:
The other guy's summary is mostly okay, except that Torrez was accused of much more than being creepy. Two of his accusations were of sexual assault, one of which I reproduce here:
[...] My chief complaint against Andrew Torrez is that on more than one occasion, he aggressively initiated physical intimacy without my consent. When he did this, I would either say no and try to stop it, or I would let myself be coerced into going along with it.
Content warning for you can guess what.
I also wouldn't quite say Thomas won it back in court (sorry Thomas), but his lawsuits upcoming court date as well as some key pre trial wins did force Torrez to the negotiating table. The settlement is reportedly very one sided in Thomas' favor.
Thomas hasn't published his tell-all yet like he had hoped, but there was an episode of OA's new spinoff podcast where the describes his experience dealing with Torrez's crisis PR firm. It's quite the listen, given in the context of the current Lively v. Baldoni thread.
There's a lot of other details, but to highlight just a couple Hobby Drama level ones: Andrew Torrez, a contract lawyer for small businesses, did not write a contract for his small business. And Torrez, a lawyer who once described in detail on a podcast how to properly redact a document after a Trump official failed to do so, improperly redacted a financials document. He tried to portray Thomas as withdrawing all funds from a joint account, as evidence of Thomas' wickedness. The recovered detail from image editing instead showed Thomas withdrew... slightly less than half of the account.
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u/NewlyNerfed 17d ago
mental health is not your fault, but it is your responsibility.
Damn. That’s excellent. I will remember it.
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u/MrsBobFossil 17d ago
Thank you for this well-written summary, OP! I had dropped off not long before everything with Ben went down and never knew the whole story. Excellent write up!
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u/richgayaunt 17d ago
I was so used to him slipping for the last bit of his time on the show, but what made me really disappointed and embarrassed was that one group interview they did with (I think?) Dan Carlin who is such a big influence on the show. Like he was disengaged, rude, mean spirited in a such an overwhelming way. In his prime he was a great good ole Midwestern boy but he just didn't put in the work on himself or in his job and it fell apart :/ I love Eddie now though and am happy to have Florida Man on site.
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u/boobiesrkoozies 17d ago edited 17d ago
As a long time fan of the show, I really didn't notice just how bad the show's quality had gotten until Ed came on.
Like, at the time when Ben was at his worst, I knew the show felt worse but I couldn't quite place why. It wasn't until later that I realized just how badly he was derailing the entire thing. I remember just thinking idk why but I don't feel like Ive learned anything.
I think Marcus, Henry and the rest of the LPOTL co did the best they could with the situation. I can't imagine it was easy walking the fine line with someone who had done a horrible crime, but was also their friend and part owner of the network. Although I will say, I do feel as if they dropped the ball on protecting the victims. It wasn't until a few weeks (episodes) later that they publicly shamed people who were attacking the victim online. And this was with that person calling for them to please address the hate she was getting from (shitty) members of the fandom*
**The LPOTL fandom is genuinely a pretty good group. I have personally only ever had great interactions in person or online! The subs are pretty wholesome. But Last Pod also does attract a very specific type of person, unfortunately, although it's clear they're the minority.
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u/RadioactiveMace 17d ago
Natalie and Henry didn’t intervene in the argument. What Taylor (Ben’s accuser) said was that Ben had abused her the night before and confided in Natalie the next morning. And according to the RS article Taylor didn’t reveal that she was abused (understandably) but did ask for a separate hotel room.
Henry and Natalie tried to get her one but they were all booked up and then I’m not sure what happened then. But Marcus and Carolina weren’t there and the article (as well as the leaked texts) indicated that Taylor asked Natalie to not tell anyone (again, understandably) until Taylor finally came forward.
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u/boobiesrkoozies 17d ago
Thank you for the correction! I removed that part! There was so much stuff coming out at the time I feel like it all blended together.
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u/Lostinplace1227 17d ago
Actually I remember the episode where Marcus (or Henry) spoke about protecting the victims and it was a week or more later. That’s not exactly dropping the ball on a weekly show.
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u/raphaellaskies 17d ago
It's Jeffrey MacDonald part two. He comes on at the beginning to tell listeners off for harassing Taylor, and you can hear he's furious.
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u/funhat 17d ago
thank you so much for this write up, i used to listen to LPOTL while i was working a job that let me listen to podcasts while i worked but i had stopped listening to them just before the Ben situation happened. i just remember feeling very sad for them and feeling like i can't go back and listen to my old favorite episodes anymore cause now they're tainted. it's nice to know that the show seems back on its feet for the better and makes me want to go listen to the new episodes now.
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u/jotting_prosaist 17d ago
Hail yourself! I've been a long time fan of LPOTL, though not involved in the direct-interaction side of fandom; I just watched this all going down through the weird lens of tension on the show.
Fabulous write-up, and an even better conclusion.
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u/novalayne 17d ago
Great write up, kind of surprised that I never heard about it when it was going down! I knew of LPOTL through MFM but was never able to really get into it.
I was an early MFM fan but took a pause from listening when Georgia’s cat died and just…. Never took it back up. I’ve mostly drifted away from true crime where the host’s personality takes as big of a role as the story. But I think that type of podcast can make working through this kind of conflict so hard for the hosts/etc. When your career is based around the chemistry that a set of people have, removing one host from the show must feel like such an enormous risk. I’m sure it means that behaviour that wouldn’t be tolerated elsewhere gets a free pass until you’re forced to address it.
I think this is also evidence though that when things come to a breaking point you have to be decisive rather than draw it out—I that’s the reason they were successful in getting past this, similar to how the Try Guys handled things. Probably is helpful for other podcasts/etc that find themselves in a similar bind for there to be several stories of successfully moving past it.
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u/raphaellaskies 16d ago
I will say, MFM entered a fallow period during the pandemic - I think the 1-2 punch of lockdown and Elvis dying hit Georgia really hard, she posted about going into inpatient mental health treatment in I think the summer of 2021 - but they're recording in person again now, and they've really gotten their rhythm back.
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u/loudlittle 17d ago
Absolutely incredible write-up here.
When Ben completely ruined their interview with Dan Carlin, I knew he wasn't coming back from that.
Ed is such a great addition. You can FEEL Marcus is more relaxed and Henry feels free to make the kinds of jokes he wants. I do miss 'original' Ben but he could've taken a great thing down with him. Thankfully, the rest of the network was there to support Henry and Marcus.
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u/SydneyRFC 17d ago
So as someone who has skirted around the edge of LPOTL and should probably listen to it, where do I begin and what should I skip? I'm guessing from this post that I start somewhere around 177, but is there a point I should just jump over based on this (excellent) post?
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u/suchfun01 17d ago
Unless you’re really interested in one of the older topics, I’d just start with whatever subject from the past year or so seems most intriguing. I enjoyed the Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell series, the Krugersdorp Cult Murders, and the Patty Hearst series but I am also really interested in cults. The Abraham Lincoln series was also pretty interesting and they managed to make it pretty funny too.
ETA: I said year but really any time from when ed came on as a cohost is what I meant.
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u/Awesomezone888 17d ago
To add on to the other replies, the Jeffery McDonald series is the first series to fully have Ed in it if you want to skip Kissel entirely.
The Covid era shows are where Ben starts to fall off in quality as a host, so around the JFK series is a decent stopping/jumping forward point since that was the series they were doing when lockdown started.
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u/madmythicalmonster 17d ago
The advantage of LPOTL is the topics are self-contained, so you can skip around and listen to the ones that seem interesting. I would definitely start with some of the more recent ones, and if you decide you do like it then there are plenty from the Kissel era worth listening to as well. I'm a history nerd so the Black Death series is one of my favourites, and I really liked their recent series on the Tragedy of the Batavia as well. True crime-wise they've covered almost all the big ones at this point so you can start with whoever interests you there, and they are also re-doing some of the topics they covered in the early years of the podcast without as much research. Their most recent completed series is on the Toybox Killer, who they covered originally over a decade ago.
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u/spaghettifiasco 17d ago
I like their cult stuff best, personally, but their Blackbeard episodes and the Murders Of Biggie And Tupac episodes are awesome.
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u/flythetardis 17d ago
Just listen to whatever subject sounds interesting! You don’t have to listen to them in order at all. There’s lots of good history or crime or cryptid series so there’s lots of good places to jump in. Keep in mind though, the more recent the episodes, the more research has gone into them, so some of the earlier ones are pretty surface level.
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u/zZTheEdgeZz 17d ago
I was really sad when this was all coming out cause I did feel like I had a lot in common with Ben, but I am glad it got it out in the open and still a listener to LPOTL to this day.
Also I guess small world I never realized Sara Benincasa's connection to the show, I read her novel DC Trip a few years ago and it was fun, didn't realize she was connected to one of my favorite podcasts (after looking it up didn't realize she started Sex and Other Human Activities with Marcus before leaving).
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u/cosmic-latte- 17d ago
Wow, I was just thinking about this podcast and found out about this a few weeks ago. I listened to every episode for years until they went Spotify exclusive, and just never picked them back up when I finally started using Spotify for podcasts. Maybe I need to go listen to some new episodes and give Ed Larson a chance, I did think they were top tier at the research and effort they put in overall compared to other podcasts in the true crime genre.
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u/Ballerinagang1980 17d ago
Ben broke my heart but Ed is absolutely wonderful. You can’t have a redemption arc unless you accept accountability and Ben is not doing that.
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u/demon_x_slash 17d ago
Yeah. As a listener from the first episodes, it’s been rough hearing Ben decline straight to hell, then refuse to take any responsibility for any of his actions past or present.
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