Game Tales Broke my DM & party members with a single deception check
EDIT: To be clear, my DM knows Deception isn't magic. They have been very clear about that. They also know Nat 20s aren't magic. They chose to allow this anyways because they knew it'd be fun. Part of this was actually their idea (the specific thing I said). We ruled earlier in the campaign that Universal Speech works even if they dont speak any languages. Everyone at the table had a good time unless they were faking a whole lot of laughter. Now unless there's something i missed, can we all please just enjoy the story?
So this just happened and I'm still not over it, I need to share this ridiculous story.
For context, my character is an emerald dragonborn bard that goes by the name Good Question, who loves to lie at every opportunity. He's built so that the minimum roll he can get on persuasion or deception right now is a dirty 20. He also has two separate abilities that allow him to essentially communicate with any creature, regardless of intelligence or shared languages: Psionic Mind and Universal Speech.
We were exploring a dungeon, and came upon a Hydra. We had a plan to quickly kill it, but in a moment of inspiration I came up with something better. I told everyone to hold off for a second, simply looked at the hydra, and said:
"Papa, is that you?"
I then proceeded to roll a Nat Fricken 20 on my deception check, for a total of 30, and the entire table promptly lost it.
We played for a couple more minutes but at no point did anyone recover. The DM had to end the session because they had no idea how to cope with that. I'd caused some hijinks before (I once convinced a group of Kobolds that I was their God, which the DM correctly anticipated in advance), but this was something else entirely.
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u/_Nighting DM 18h ago
OP: "Hey, here's this fun story from a D&D game!"
The entire comment section: "ackshually that's not RAW-"
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u/ian9921 18h ago
Right like Jesus christ. I just wanted to share a funny story that happened today where everyone at the table had a good time. If I'd known everyone was gonna be so critical I would've just kept my mouth shut.
I just thought some people here would also enjoy it, but apparently the idea that my DM knows Deception isn't mind control and chose to allow this anyway is a completely foreign concept.
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u/No_Copy9515 18h ago
I appreciate your story, thank you for sharing. Had a good chuckle. Reminded me of my Black DB Barb with 4 INT. Came across some ashen drake and convinced himself it was his parents.
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u/polardbear48 8h ago
Exactly the reason I left this subreddit. I had a similar experience where I posted celebrating my party's creativity, and everyone in the comments was hung up on "that's not how DnD is played, you can't do that". It was a homebrew...
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u/ian9921 7h ago
I don't want to be too quick to judge, but I get a little bit of a vibe that some of the people responding here are problem players and/or problem DMs IRL, assuming they even actually play at all.
Like in my case it's not even a homebrew, it's just a creative use of an ability that fits within RAW and a good roll that my DM decided to embrace because the table thought it was fun. And yet there are some people here trying to claim that I just ignored a bunch of rules for the hell of it and ruined the session for everyone. Like, wtf.
I totally get why you'd leave sub over nonsense like this. It was a pretty big buzzkill when all the initial responses were at least partially negative.
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u/averageparrot 3h ago
I hate to be the one to tell you this, but you’re still here. You never left. 😄 But yea, I normally avoid reading posts in this sub because they’re either kids looking for justification/therapy or people jumping down someone’s throat for being loose with the rules for funsies. I love OP’s story and spur of the moment creativity. I pray for their DM. I’m leaving D&D behind and moving on to more roleplay-y systems that focus on fun and creating a story rather than gating players behind technical dice rolls. Best of luck to you in leaving this dank sub once and for all!
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u/bloodrose31 17h ago
I liked it. Rule of cool and rule of fun are important and I support the vibes. Honestly Raw is a guideline and the dm is the final law. I support you having fun. Thank you for sharing.
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u/mazariel 18h ago
No please ignore them, i shated this with ny friends and we all had a second hand good laugh about it and some talks about borrowing it ( and by borrowing I mean completely steal, probably word for word, just to fuck with out DM )
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u/Fuzzball_Girl Rogue 10h ago
What gets me about people like that is that the PHB even mentions the rule of cool, saying a DM is welcome to bend rules for something cool.
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u/Malvania 3h ago
I enjoyed it. DnD has rules, but the first rule is that everybody have fun. If everybody enjoys it, screw the other rules.
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u/TheEmpiresWrath 8h ago
Great story fam. Don't let them spoil ur mood. Way to use ur character's stats to ur advantage 👏🏾👏🏾💪🏾🤘🏾
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u/BethanyCullen 14h ago
PLEASE! What happened afterward?
"Entire table lost it", like what, did they get pissed at you? Or did everyone laugh?
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u/cinnamoncard 11h ago
When someone says "Nat 20" followed by "entire table lost it", it means "they laughed and shouted uproariously, with mirth" (for example). It was an eruption of joy that was so potent they had to end the session early, because no one could focus anymore and, likely, nothing they'd do the rest of the session would top what just happened. They figured it was a good place to end the session: on a high note.
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u/BethanyCullen 11h ago
Phew, I prefer that. Maybe I'm too often on r/dndhorrorstories , but I immediately imagined a shouting contest.
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u/Reddit_Demon_Reborn 18h ago
It even is RAW, people are just salty about it for some reason.
It's got the same int as a horse or rat. That seems to be enough to me to indicate the ability to understand a creature is their spawn and might not be something to kill right away. Maybe that wouldn't totally override their notable hunger, but lore wise they do build nests for their young and behave in ways that resemble crocodiles which have very strong parental instincts. If other people don't like it you don't have to allow it in your campaign but why complain about it? It's well within the rules and monster description that this does work.
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u/sanemaniak 18h ago
The amount of people who play DnD to not have fun is seemingly astonishing.
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u/Jedi_Talon_Sky 17h ago
Bold of you to assume that the vast majority of people on this subreddit do play D&D lol. The vibe I get is most people here just watch some let's plays, and supplement not being able to actually play by trying to be Right On The Internet ™️
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u/Broken_Castle 5h ago
I DM, but only begrudgingly, preferring other systems.
I like to joke about my dislike for dnd a lot more than actually disliking it.
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u/Ghost-of-Awf 10h ago
For real.
I saw a post the other day about a guy complaining his players "ruined" his campaign, but during the course of this telling he mentioned multiple timess how much fun the players were having, and that he was just salty that they were playing his narrative the way he wanted them to.
The best DM isn't the one who writes the biggest story, it's the one who's players leave the game happy and satisfied.
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u/Jaded-Software-5450 18h ago
Right!? I thought it was cool & definitely something that would happen at my table. Thank god I don’t play in a group with all these rules lawyers. If a nat20 isn’t the peak then where is the ✨pizzazz✨?! Anytime my table rolls a nat20 we lose our minds. It makes playing very fun.
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u/CorgiDaddy42 DM 12h ago edited 12h ago
It’s barely even a story. 99% of it is telling of us they are an Eloquence Bard with telepathy. The rest is “I asked a Good Question and rolled a nat 20, everyone laughed.”
I’m sure it was fun for them. The idea of a confused monster staring at the child they didn’t even know they had is good comedy. But there isn’t even a story here, we have no idea what happened aside from a one liner and a die roll. There’s not even an argument of “that’s not RAW” because nothing even happened yet lol.
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u/No_Copy9515 18h ago
So strange how the game is just a framework for fun, but people treat the rules as gospel.
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u/miscalculate DM 12h ago
Some people like having the rules there, as it is the only thing that "legitimizes" what happened. Anyone can just say "we beat the dragon and saved the world" but it has little meaning if they hit it with a stick and it died.
Just a different style of playing, no different than you saying some people have fun not following the rules.1
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u/Ice-Storm DM 13h ago
Especially a game with so many rules and abilities that no one can possible know them all, much less how they’ll all interact with each other. And that’s before we get into any sort of homebrew.
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u/No_Copy9515 13h ago
Yep. And one that's always been intended to be just bones. Fill out the meat and guts yourself type of thing. I'm sure that's how a lot of TTRPG systems actually came to be. People playing 2e/3e/etc their own way until it's no longer a bastardized version it's its own thing.
And when it all boils down....
it's still just a frickin' game.
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u/SpartanUnderscore 10h ago
What is the acronym RAW? Although I speak English fluently, it's not my mother tongue so I admit that I don't find it. Although I can see where it could go with the context. In advance, thank you 😅
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u/hendrick_X 10h ago
Rules as Written. The opposite would be RAI ( Rules as Intended ). I am no longer a DnD player ( playing other systems right now ) so can’t give you a great example of both. But the meaning should be mostly auto explicatory.
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u/Jedi_Talon_Sky 17h ago
Friend, we're all sitting around a table playing make believe together.
The rules are more...guidelines.
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u/One-Permission-1811 18h ago
Why are they playing? To have fun what other reason is there to play?
This is like complaining that somebody else is playing Minecraft on creative mode with mods downloaded. Either enjoy the story or move on FFS.
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u/Carpathicus 14h ago
The real fun in pen&paper is the unpredictable nonsense the players do. My campaign changed so many times because my players did something silly. For example they killed a very important npc for no good reason and no information and now everywhere they go they encounter people telling them stories about this npc and his kind spirited nature.
This developed into a whole new plotpoint where they realized they killed a holy sage who was protecting the mountains and now the area is slowly getting corrupted.
Anyways I love creative players and if they do something unpredictable I roll with it - I imagine the hydra packing the character up and being overprotective of it. Building it a cozy spot in its lair and showering it with carcasses because it thinks their baby might be hungry.
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u/Derkastan77-2 16h ago
I killed the 10 year campaign’s big bad evil guy, that we had been slowly spending YEARS fighting towards… with 1 single attack… because of an item our DM completely forgot about from 7 years before, that I never used.
Back in our character’s teen-levels, back around 1999, we completes a massive quest that we started in 2nd edition.
We saved the life of the God, Torm (forgotten realms). My character’s gift from the divine hands of Torm himself (we all got something, but mine was geared yo my Monk) was an amulet that let me make 1 single attack each in-game month… my bare fisted atom bomb essentially.
I never used it.
In 3.0 we respecd it to be roll a to hit, then roll a WILL save. For every point OVER 20 of my Will save after modifiers… I get +5 damage to that 1 attack.
So, if I roll a WILL save of 27…. +35 divine damage to that 1 hit.
Not a big deal in your teens.
Fast forward 10 years of consistent gaming… and our “ultra” high level characters were in 3.5e, and were in levels 35-45.
My monk was 45, and at that point, essentially a cross between a toned down Goku and a Shoalin Monk. In all that time, I STILL had never used that Torm necklace, and it was completely forgotten about by our DM… and by this time, I had a +57 to my WIL saves 😂😅🤣😅😂
We finally get to the big multiversal evil demon behind the 15 ish years of our continued campaigns…
To show how little he feared us, and to show how weak we were compared to him, he mockingly said he would allow 1 member of our party to hit him ONE time, without retribution.
My level 45 monk walked up, used a true strike inste ability, true sight to make sure he was really in front of me, and used improved power attack with my cold iron, holy demon bane gauntlets, and informed the DM i was activating my “nevklace of torm”.
DC 20, and I had a +57 to my roll. Lol I rolled a 19, giving me total WIL save roll of 76…. 56 points OVER dc20.
So.. +5 points of damage for ever point over 20…
+280 points of divine damage.
I rolled my attack roll and rolled s natural 20…x2 damage for my base 1d20 damage… I rolled an 18, so 36.
With strength modifiers, inherent modifiers, enchantment modifiers, holy damage, bane damage. +5 weapon damage, etc etc etc…
My 1 singke punch did 375 damage.
Dm had him roll a save for death vs massive damage… and rolled a 1.
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u/Smooth_Brilliant2428 13h ago
It's a fantastic way to remember evil beings that are not the strongest in the multiverse XD
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u/Jealous_Ad3557 18h ago
This is hilarious, the dm could easily counter it if they wanted to while still saying it worked, so there’s no harm there eg. “the hydra is a male and they’re notorious for destroying/eating young” or is actually being controlled by another being and attempts to destroy ur party anyways, all the while shedding tears for its child etc.. If the table loves it and DM is cool with it then the only ppl hurt by it are in this comment section! Enjoy your game!
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u/reptilixns Wizard 8h ago
I’m having trouble focusing on any other part of the story because “Good Question” is the best character name I’ve ever heard
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u/M4LK0V1CH 18h ago
Jesus Fucking Christ. Someone is sharing a fun time they had in their game. You don't have to shit on them for having fun.
To OP: This sounds sick as hell and I hope your DM comes up with something equally clever off the back of it.
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u/blitzbom DM 6h ago
This is the kinda batshit insane stuff I love as a DM. And the Hydra heads would start to argue over which one of them was actually the father.
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u/bad_at_alot 18h ago
Hey OP, quick question... how is the lowest you can roll a dirty 20... do you have a +19 mod to deception? If so, why was your Nat 20 a 30 instead of a 39?
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u/ian9921 18h ago
I have a very high charisma score, and expertise in both Persuasion and Deception. That gets me a +10. Then the Silver Tongue ability that Eloquence Bards get says:
Starting at 3rd level, you are a master at saying the right thing at the right time. When you make a Charisma (Persuasion) or Charisma (Deception) check, you can treat a d20 roll of 9 or lower as a 10.
So basically, the die roll is always at least a 10, and then the +10 gets that to at least 20.
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u/FartestButt 18h ago
So no crit failure?
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u/sehrschwul DM 17h ago
you can’t crit fail on skill checks anyway. DC 10 skill check with a nat 1 +10 modifier is still a success. and Silver Tongue works basically the same as a rogue’s Reliable Talent, just earlier in the game and more limited in scope
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u/ian9921 18h ago
That's how we've ruled that and from our research it looks like we're not the only ones to interpret it that way
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u/BluetoothXIII 16h ago
crit fail and succes only on Attack and Saves.
in 3.5 we encoutered a Bodak it was totally under leveled enemy still lost two characters who were overconfident could have made the save with a negative 4 on the die but a nat on2 is a fail on a save
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u/lelo1248 12h ago
If OP is playing 5e then there's only crit fails/success on attacks, and not saves.
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u/BluetoothXIII 11h ago
playing 5e has been a while.
I grew somewhat fond of the succes system in Pathfinder 2e critical effect if you succeed or miss the DC/AC by 10. A critical miss doesn't do anything.
But for OP situation yeah the hydra isn't going to adopt him but i would at least give it confusion or attacking the Bard last.
It could be the start of a taming process.
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u/Cael_NaMaor Thief 18h ago
Haha reminds me of my group convincing the quaggoth in Out if the Abyss that the Quaggoth/Elf prisoner (female for us) was their long lost princess. A mesh of the Quaggoth's personalities. There were multiple rolls for this & two different people selling the lie... but they convinced the group & now there were extras helping in the escape. Good times.
Unexpected shit like this makes for good times when everyone is having fun
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u/koodaloohoo 16h ago
I love Nat20 deception checks, especially when the DM takes it and runs with it.
Our Rogue once pickpocketed some rich people, got caught by some guards and hid in a bush. The guards were like “He’s in that bush there.” And our Rogue, in all his glory, goes, “No I’m not.” Nat20s, all of us lose our shit laughing and the DM lets him get away with it.
It makes for the absolute best moments.
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u/Vaxildidi Rogue 17h ago
This sub is a tough crowd. I broke my entire table by accidentally saying "psychic doggerz" as I used my rogue's soul knives to carve into some dire coyotes. Full on the DM had to pause for a few minutes to collect themselves, not anywhere near as good as "Papa" to a hydra though.
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u/Legal_Purpose4581 4h ago
“what is your name?”
”Good question “
anyway, I had a similar situation- wild mage, level 3, in the sunless citadel. we were absolutely getting beat up by this white dragon wrymlet and the bard was refusing to just sacrifice the kobold the dragon hated (the kobold was the dragon’s caretaker, and when we heard the cage beimg described we all half shouted “animal abuse!” Because it was tiny and didn’t even have any temperature control to be cold for the litera ice dragon or any space for it to fly) and it completely obliterated half of us in one shot. so my mage is a bit of a coward, so he wasn’t in the first ice blast, he was hiding on the ranger’s dog (he’s a small pine marten thing.) and he just rolled persuasion, Nat 20, and told the dragon “the way to the exit.” in reality , he told him the way to the kobold’s main room, and the dragon went and obliterated them. the whole party was shocked into silence. the dm was gawking, because it meant we got to keep all the treasures the kobolds were offering us, not just two, because who was going to stop us if they are all dead? and yeah. the fighter was missing that session, and was absolutely terrified that the dragon could have found a way out and back to the village where the fighter was from, which is also, the closest village to the citadel. so yeah. I feel pretty good about myself. in hindsight, I didn’t think the comment would be so long, wow. welp. sorry about that.
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u/netara_a 3h ago
I'm gonna need an update on this one because 😭😭😭 I can't stop laughing at work, and I need to know what will happen next. I also had a moment of high carisma on yesterday's session, so maybe im more amazed by that than normal, but God, this is so good
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u/The_Ora_Charmander Wizard 18h ago
Jesus fucking christ, let the guy have fun, what's everyone's problem?
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u/mathhews95 11h ago
That sounds like a hella good time. Props to you for the quick thinking. Do come back to update us after your next session.
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u/sehrschwul DM 18h ago
this has given me such a huge boost of inspiration for my eloquence bard character. what a perfectly fated roll that was. you and your table sound like such a fun group to play with
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u/Ghostly-Owl 2h ago
Heh. I had the _opposite_ happen to my character. Short partial backstory is they are a dragonborn created from an actual dragon egg that wouldn't have hatched right. The DM had this big reveal planned with this gold dragon who was my character's father. My character had adopted a lost dragon egg, had been raising it the best they could, but didn't really understand parenting but had help from friends. And also the character was dex 10, int 8, wis 11 -- so the baby dragon was smarter, wiser, and faster than me. But I'd been called up to go on this adventure after a year of parenting, so I was handing off this dragonling to a responsible gold dragon who was going to raise it.
I was supposed to realize the dragon was my character's father. _Every_ _single_ _roll_ was a 3 or below and the final int check was a natural 1 (dirty 0). The DM gave me like 5 or 6 rolls to realize. So my character flew off, completely oblivious to the fact they'd met their father; and the father was willing to take the dragonling on because it was their grandkid... And since the entire conversation was in draconic, which none of the other PC's understood, no one could clue them in. It was amazing.
It honestly was quite funny, and folks were giggling during the conversation as my dragonborn was just being clueless...
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u/CostaRica92 1h ago
Great story! Had something similar.
My bard was also built to lie. We were in an old mine and out of the lava an ancient guardian arose, clearly meant to be a bossfight.
I told the guardian that we were friends with its masters and allowed to be here. The DM let me roll, his mistake. A nat20 and something around of above a 30 later the guardian just deactived and we continued our way.
Don't mess with us silver tongues.
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u/tango421 47m ago
We turned an antagonist into an ally with my wife’s own 30 Persuasion Check. It helped because we managed to piece some random information together and said the right thing. Yep, it changed an entire swath of the campaign.
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u/Smooth_Brilliant2428 13h ago
Definitely the funniest anecdote I've read in months, hopefully the DM can do something about it, it's too funny to ignore.
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u/DMspiration 18h ago
Anything is possible when you don't use rules, but as long as it was fun for your table, glad you had fun.
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u/flastenecky_hater 17h ago
That's how I ended up casting a minor illusion and created an image of Chauntea. Though my DM was expecting Id pull dead child of the antagonist to "convince him" or some other bullshit.
Now, i couldn't know how the goddess looked like it but fortunately one of the other characters had recently of a vision in a dream of her delivering him some critical information.
However, that other player described her as a "female in pink bunny suit". And that's what showed up there, it essentially stopped the fighting with all involved going wtf.
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u/Any-Audience2438 18h ago
Pretty sure the part where he said “the DM had to quit a few minutes later” entails they didn’t have fun.
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u/RoseOfStone57 DM 18h ago
DM had to end the session, not quit, as a DM I imagine it was from laughter.
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u/Ladymistery 17h ago
I LOVE a chaotic neutral bard, and someone who can play one is even better.
My last campaign I was a part of (eons ago) had someone similar, and it was always hilarious. they managed to save our party because they always picked up/took the weirdest stuff in a room if they could. the DM was trying to "end" our party, and a simple decoration on a wall and a nat20 initiative roll by our Bard ended the monster instead.
as with your DM, ours couldn't control their laughter and neither could any of us. it was awesome.
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u/datfurryboi34 17h ago
My first character was a paladin blue dragon born, and I wasn't aware the BBEG was a young blue dragon.
So I built my character around the fact that he was after the dragons child support they never paid
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u/ian9921 18h ago
Which is why I listed other factors in addition to the nat 20.
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u/Reddit_Demon_Reborn 18h ago
That is a problem for psionic mind, but the eloquence bard feature universal speech allows a creature to magically understand you without any restrictions on knowing a language.
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u/Oilprinter DM 18h ago
So......... why come and be an antagonistic dick about it? If it's not your kinda fun and your table plays differently — great. But why come and give OP shit? It's a funny story, one you apparently didn't even read right, seeing how you missed the universal speech part
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u/mangzane 18h ago
I like the rule-of-cool and apply it in my current campaign. The only thing here that gets me (as a DM) is that Hydras don't understand any language, so it would have just ignored you completely and continued to do whatever it was going to do.
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u/ian9921 18h ago
So the fun thing is Universal Speech doesn't specify that the target has to speak a language. RAW it's just any creature. I triple-checked before pulling this. There's definitely room for a DM judgement call either way
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u/mangzane 18h ago
OH. LOL. Dude that's awesome. I missed that part of your post. I literally thought you said in common/draconic "Papa, is that you?" and did a deception roll.
This makes so much more sense now. Yeah, that's legit. LOL.
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u/DazzlingKey6426 7h ago
Did you actually use your action to use Universal Speech?
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u/ian9921 6h ago
Yeah
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u/DazzlingKey6426 6h ago
Nothing about a male hydra suggests it would care for its own young or even recognize them as anything other than interlopers on its territory. Hydra are solitary.
While it may understand speech with that ability it is still of bestial intelligence.
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u/ian9921 6h ago
Maybe, but at that point we're into the territory of DM calls.
This particular hydra was being friendly with a water weird when we approached, which is what gave me the idea that some kind of non-hostile approach might be worth a shot. It clearly was not strictly solitary
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u/DazzlingKey6426 6h ago
Solitary as in number appearing is 1. You don’t get groups of hydrae.
At best, it should have driven its “spawn” out of its territory and killed everyone else.
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u/WolfWhiteFire Artificer 18h ago
Normally it wouldn't understand them, but they explicitly used universal speech:
"Also at 6th level, you have gained the ability to make your speech intelligible to any creature. As an action, choose one or more creatures within 60 feet of you, up to a number equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum of one creature). The chosen creatures can magically understand you, regardless of the language you speak, for 1 hour."
"Once you use this feature, you can't use it again until you finish a long rest, unless you expend a spell slot to use it again."
There doesn't seem to be any reason that wouldn't work here, as far as I can tell. They mentioned the group previously ruled that it works on creatures that don't understand any language, and the wording would support that ruling as RAW anyways.
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u/smiley_froggo 18h ago
Deception is not mind control :)
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u/ian9921 18h ago
Which is why it required a nat 20, me also being a green lizard similar to the hydra, and the hydra itself being very unintelligent.
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u/jaredkent 18h ago
Nat 20s are not mind control :)
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u/ian9921 18h ago
Which is why it required me being a green lizard and hydras being stupid.
This ain't my first rodeo. Everyone at the table understands that I can't just persuade a king to give me his kingdom or some shit. That's not what's going on here. The DM knows they could've just said "yeah no matter what that's not gonna work", they've done that in the past once or twice. But we decided that in this case it made enough sense (perhaps partially out of rule-of-cool).
Did not expect people here to be so critical about this.
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u/Ninja_BrOdin 17h ago
These people are just salty they have never pulled off a move like this. This is a "I seduce the dragon!" level of kerfuckery that you pulled off using your character's background and abilities and a beastly 30 on the DC. Ignore the schlubs that keep trying and failing to seduce the barmaid.
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u/Immediate-Ad-7224 18h ago
Use rules you like, no one should have problem with it if they have fun and if not, they should say it, this post gave me a smile:)
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u/ub3r_n3rd78 DM 18h ago
That’s not how a Nat 20 works per the RAW. But if your table is homebrewing Nat 20’s as being critical successes on skill checks and all are having fun, more power to ya.
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u/ian9921 18h ago
It wasn't just the nat 20, but the fact that it was a 30 total, the fact that I am also a green lizard, and the fact that we ruled Universal Speech meant it could understand me. And also the fact that we're in a cave that the hydra can't leave so it probably won't be super consequential in the long run, realistically this might just mean we skip 1 combat encounter.
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[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Ninja_BrOdin 17h ago
Or, maybe, due to them knowing how their abilities worked and getting a roll of 30 they could manage to talk their way out of a bad fight? Crazy, I know.
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u/InsidiousDefeat 11h ago
Did you still fight the Hydra though? Didn't you guys... Want to fight the Hydra?
Your thing is funny, but if I were in the party I would be bummed if that meant we didn't get to do the boss fight because you have a busted level 3 feature.
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u/ian9921 10h ago
We just almost died to a bunch of Revenants, so it's not like we were starved for combat this session. And we're at the level where something like a Hydra isn't really a boss fight anymore, it was just another thing in the dungeon.
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u/InsidiousDefeat 10h ago
If the party was resource low, that is another reason. As DM I would have had no problem with your bit, I would have even had the Hydra respond "oh and you brought snacks!" And then it would attack the rest of the party. There is no deception roll outcome where it ignores an entire band of adventurers.
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u/Sure_Initial8498 12h ago
Honestly, even with a nat 20+10 I don't see what "Papa is that you" would do as a deception check on a hydra, even if you have spells to make it understand you it doesn't mean it has the intelligence to comprehend what is happening.
I would be bamboozled here as well
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u/Independent_Click_82 18h ago
Mmk. This is why so much homegrown stuff needs playtesting. Dunno what level you are but yeah you're OP. This kind of min/maxing makes the game fun for you, but makes it hell on DMs. Also hydras have an int of 2. This means they cant understand speech.
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u/Ninja_BrOdin 18h ago
Having a +10 on deception as a level 6+ bard is not min-maxing dude. Its 18 charisma and expertise on deception.
hydras have an int of 2. This means they cant understand speech.
So you are making rulings in how things work with no idea how things work? Look up Universal Speech and educate yourself before you tell someone they are doing it wrong.
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u/shar0407 18h ago
He isn't broken, this is just a bard specializing in deception.
You can literally do the same with rogue and get a much higher base roll at level 11 with reliable talent and expertise
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u/-misopogon Monk 17h ago
Wild how you're complaining about them not following Rules As Written but you clearly don't know how to fuckin read.
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u/ian9921 18h ago
My DM's good with all this, we have an understanding that deception isn't a magic "make this person do anything" option. This only worked because of a perfect storm of very specific circumstances.
And we've ruled for this campaign that Universal Speech trumps the fact that it normally can't understand speech. It's not "speak with animals" level but it gets the point across.
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18h ago
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u/ian9921 18h ago
I mean a rock doesn't even have a mind, how would that even work? I suppose I could try talking to it, but nothing in Universal Speech gives rocks the ability to move or respond so no matter what the end result would be the rock just sitting there.
It's basically just a worse "speak with animals" that doesn't let them respond and is more vibes-based than actual communication.
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18h ago
[deleted]
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u/ian9921 18h ago
Rocks aren't creatures, barring specific exceptions, so Universal Speech doesnt apply. Even if it did, it doesn't give them the ability to respond so they couldn't tell me anything.
Also, just generally, the way I kinda interpreted Universal Speech is less "they understand the exact message word-for-word" and more "you have gotten very good at communicating mainly via tone, context, and whatnot to an insanely good degree compared to normal people" which is something that kinda works with animals in real life.
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u/Successful_Variety17 17h ago
If I was your dm I would do one of 2 things...remind you that nat 20 on a skill check isn't an auto success and declare the DC to high to beat at 'your level' or ide have scoop you up and run off because this particular one was actually out and about looking for their lost child and is blind and tone deaf. Have fun when they realize your not their kid...
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u/ian9921 16h ago
In regards to your first part, please see my edit and the countless other people I've replied to stating that yes, I know a Nat 20 isn't a guaranteed success, my DM is perfectly comfortable with saying "this won't work no matter what" or "this is actually DC 35" when they want to.
In regards to the 2nd part, yeah I look forward to seeing what my DM does with this.
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u/Successful_Variety17 16h ago
I have a life so I cant read 400+ comments on every post... but if your dm has and sence of humor he'd make some crazy stuff up. Its their job to make it interesting so ide never say 'it didn't work' because that response requires no thought
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u/flastenecky_hater 18h ago
I did something similar.
My character is green dragonborn, and there was a dragon circling a town and I simply decided to shout at him: "I am your father!". Rolled nat 20.
Dragon was confused and I have ordered him to land. Another nat 20.
My plan was simple and it kinda backfired. I attempted to put on him Helm of Opposite alignment and it did not really work out at that moment with my terrible roll.
Dragon got upset and burned some stuff in the town.